Bright Moments Posted January 4, 2005 Report Posted January 4, 2005 can anybody give me some information about trumpet player norma carson? christiern? does anybody have any of her recordings? i have the 1 cut from clark terry's 1955cd, but that is it. i would love to find cats vs. chicks! can anybody find a decent picture of her? as always, any help is muchly appreciated! B-) Quote
king ubu Posted January 4, 2005 Report Posted January 4, 2005 can anybody give me some information about trumpet player norma carson? christiern? does anybody have any of her recordings? i have the 1 cut from clark terry's 1955cd, but that is it. i would love to find cats vs. chicks! can anybody find a decent picture of her? as always, any help is muchly appreciated! B-) That was the shittiest job of the VEE series! That whole Cats meets Chick album would/should/could have fitted onto the Terry disc... No info on Norma Carson for me, but poppin' this up! ubu Quote
Christiern Posted January 4, 2005 Report Posted January 4, 2005 The only time I heard and met Norma Carson was on May 24th, 1956 when she brought her quintet to Keflavík Air Base (Iceland). The quintet consisted of Norma, Bob Newman, tenor, Paul Bley, piano, Jimmy Bonds, bass, and Al Levitt, drums. I have a lasting image of her playing the trumpet as she stood on chair, wearing a tight dress with a zebra pattern. She told me that her favorite trumpet players were Fats Navarro and Miles, that she lived at 5278 Parkside Avenue, Philadelphia. She also told me of an EmArcy album by "Paul Bley Quintet featuring Norma Carson" that would be out in October of that year, but I have never been able to find such a release. Sorry, that does not answer your questions, but it's all I know (don't ask me how I came across my 48-year-old notes so readily). Quote
Bright Moments Posted January 4, 2005 Author Report Posted January 4, 2005 thank you chris. you are a true resource and we are lucky to have you!!!! Quote
brownie Posted January 4, 2005 Report Posted January 4, 2005 does anybody have any of her recordings? I have already posted before that the MGM 'Cats vs. Chicks' should be reissued. Hope that those Spanish/Andorran pirates will one day release the date since the owners of the copyrights have never cared to do the job. I have a mint copy of 'Cats Vs. Chicks'. The confrontation is contained in side A of the LP. Side B being devoted to the Terry Pollard trio (with Ernie Farrow on bass and Frank Di Vito on drums. Norma Carson has solos on each of the four tunes she appears on. Very good and natural player who sounds a bit like the Miles Davis of the early fifties. Just a reminder the Cats were Clark Terry (leader), Urbie Green, Lucky Thompson, Tal Farlow, Percy Heath/Oscar Pettiford and Kenny Clarke, the Chicks being Norma Carson, harpist Corky Hecht, Beryl Booker, Mary Osborne, Elaine Leighton, Bonnie Wetzel and Terry Pollard (leader). I remember seeing a gimmick photo from the time of the date (1956) where Norma Carson, a brunette, was faking a duel - both holding trumpets sword-like - with Clark Terry. Quote
Bright Moments Posted January 4, 2005 Author Report Posted January 4, 2005 found this so far: Date: June 2, 1954 Location: NY Clark Terry (ldr), Norma Carson, Clark Terry (t), Urbie Green (tb), Lucky Thompson (ts), Tal Farlow, Mary Osborne (g), Terry Pollard, Horace Silver (p), Percy Heath, Oscar Pettiford (b), Kenny Clarke (d) a. 54-S-248 Cat Meets Chick - 03:32 (Jane Feather) MGM EP: X 4146 b. 54-S-249 Mamblues - 02:31 (Clark Terry) Stash LP 12": ST B001 - Forty Years of Women In Jazz MGM EP: X 4146 c. 54-S-250 The Man I Love - 03:15 (George Gershwin, Ira Gershwin) MGM EP: X 4147 d. 54-S-251 Anything You Can Do - 04:52 (Irving Berlin) Stash LP 12": ST B001 - Forty Years of Women In Jazz Stash LP 12": ST 109 - Jazz Women: A Feminist Retrospective MGM EP: X 4147 All titles on: - Verve CD: 314 537 754-2 - Clark Terry - MGM LP 12": E 3614 - Leonard Feather Presents Cats vs. Chicks - MGM LP 10": E 255 - Leonard Feather Presents Cats vs. Chicks - MGM EP: X 255 - Leonard Feather Presents Cats vs. Chicks Norma Carson (t) on d only. Mary Osborne (g) on d only. Terry Pollard (p) on d only. Omit Percy Heath (b) on a, b. Omit Oscar Pettiford (b) on c, d. _________________ Still no pictures!!! AAAARRRGH!!! Quote
brownie Posted January 4, 2005 Report Posted January 4, 2005 found this so far: Date: June 2, 1954 Location: NY Clark Terry (ldr), Norma Carson, Clark Terry (t), Urbie Green (tb), Lucky Thompson (ts), Tal Farlow, Mary Osborne (g), Terry Pollard, Horace Silver (p), Percy Heath, Oscar Pettiford (b), Kenny Clarke (d) a. 54-S-248 Cat Meets Chick - 03:32 (Jane Feather) MGM EP: X 4146 b. 54-S-249 Mamblues - 02:31 (Clark Terry) Stash LP 12": ST B001 - Forty Years of Women In Jazz MGM EP: X 4146 c. 54-S-250 The Man I Love - 03:15 (George Gershwin, Ira Gershwin) MGM EP: X 4147 d. 54-S-251 Anything You Can Do - 04:52 (Irving Berlin) Stash LP 12": ST B001 - Forty Years of Women In Jazz Stash LP 12": ST 109 - Jazz Women: A Feminist Retrospective MGM EP: X 4147 All titles on: - Verve CD: 314 537 754-2 - Clark Terry - MGM LP 12": E 3614 - Leonard Feather Presents Cats vs. Chicks - MGM LP 10": E 255 - Leonard Feather Presents Cats vs. Chicks - MGM EP: X 255 - Leonard Feather Presents Cats vs. Chicks Norma Carson (t) on d only. Mary Osborne (g) on d only. Terry Pollard (p) on d only. Omit Percy Heath (b) on a, b. Omit Oscar Pettiford (b) on c, d. _________________ Still no pictures!!! AAAARRRGH!!! That's from the Lucky Thompson discography http://www.attictoys.com/jazz/LT51-56.HTM The Terry Pollard sides with Norma Carson are not listed with the exception of 'Anything You Can Do' where cats and chicks play together. The Terry Pollard septet plays the same three tunes ('Cat Meets Chick', 'Mamblues' and 'The Man I Love') as the Clark Terry septet. Quote
Bright Moments Posted January 4, 2005 Author Report Posted January 4, 2005 thought i would bring this over from the other thread. still the only picture anyone can find! Quote
Bright Moments Posted January 6, 2005 Author Report Posted January 6, 2005 can someone post (for educational purposes only) the passage from Feather's encyclopedia of jazz about norma carson? Quote
Christiern Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 This is how her listing looks in the 0riginal Encyclopedia of Jazz. She was dropped from subsequent volumes. CARSON, NORMA, trumpet; b. Portland, Ore., 1922. Worked w. Ada Leonard, Sweethearts of Rhythm, Vi Burnside; from 1952 free-lanced in Phila; married to tenor player Bob Newman. Inspired by Gillespie and Davis, she revealed considerable talent in the Cats vs. Chicks album on MGM, but has remained in relative obscurity. Addr: 902 Brant Ave., Clark, N.J. Quote
brownie Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 (edited) can someone post (for educational purposes only) the passage from Feather's encyclopedia of jazz about norma carson? From the 1983 reprint of the 1960 First Edition of Feather's Encyclopedia: CARSON, NORMA trumpet; b. Portland, Ore., 1922. Worked with Ada Leonard, Sweethearts of Rhythm, Vi Burnside; from 1952 free-lanced in Phila; married to tenor player Bob Newman. Inspired by Gillespie and Davis, she revealed considerable talent in the Cats vs. Chicks LP on MGM but has remained in relative obscurity. Addr: 902 Brant Ave. Clark, N.J. Edited January 6, 2005 by brownie Quote
couw Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 I see Christiern has a bigger book than brownie Quote
catesta Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 I see Christiern has a bigger book than brownie Ha! Quote
brownie Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 Also found this in 'The Jazz Years, Earwitness to an Era' by Leonard Feather (1986): Though Carson idolized Clifford Brown and Miles Davis, and despite the extent to which her work on this date proved it, this was her first and last recording. Except for a feature in my 'Girls in Jazz' series in Down Beat, she was never recognized or publicized: it was her conviction that working in commercial all-female bands such as Ada Leonard's was a musical and economic detriment; she was exploied, underpaid, and forced to play inferior music with players who did not take their careers seriously. Eventually she went along a stereotypical route, marrying, raising a family and trying to forget about her early ambitions. Feather also mentions about the 'Cats vs. Chicks' date that the session was released as a ten-incher. He adds that he tried (and invested some of his savings) to have it released as a twelve-incher. He adds 'This failed to happen; my money, and, to the best of my knowledge, the masters were lost for ever'. Wrong at least on one point. MGM released it as a 12-incher. Now if anybody on this Board asks me if I have books by Leonard Feather, I'll flatly deny it Quote
brownie Posted January 6, 2005 Report Posted January 6, 2005 I see Christiern has a bigger book than brownie Ha! Everybody knows that size does not count Quote
Bright Moments Posted January 6, 2005 Author Report Posted January 6, 2005 thanks guys. i wonder if she is still alive. Quote
brownie Posted April 29, 2006 Report Posted April 29, 2006 The German label Membran has recently released the 'Cats vs. Chicks' MGM sides - plus the 'Hot vs. Cool' album - in their Original Long Play Albums series. Very much worth getting this. Just a reminder that the 'Cats vs. Chicks' features Norma Carson playing with a Terry Pollard group plus a Clark Terry-led group that has Urbie Green, Lucky Thompson, Horace Silver, Tal Farlow, Percy Heath and Kenny Clarke! The 'Hot vs. Cool' album has Dizzy Gillespie (with Buddy de Franco, Ray Abrams, etc...) opposing Jimmy McPartland (with Vic Dickenson, Edmund Hall, etc...) Quote
Bright Moments Posted May 4, 2006 Author Report Posted May 4, 2006 The German label Membran has recently released the 'Cats vs. Chicks' MGM sides - plus the 'Hot vs. Cool' album - in their Original Long Play Albums series. Very much worth getting this. Just a reminder that the 'Cats vs. Chicks' features Norma Carson playing with a Terry Pollard group plus a Clark Terry-led group that has Urbie Green, Lucky Thompson, Horace Silver, Tal Farlow, Percy Heath and Kenny Clarke! The 'Hot vs. Cool' album has Dizzy Gillespie (with Buddy de Franco, Ray Abrams, etc...) opposing Jimmy McPartland (with Vic Dickenson, Edmund Hall, etc...) where can i pick this up? do you have a link? Quote
brownie Posted May 5, 2006 Report Posted May 5, 2006 where can i pick this up? do you have a link? Easy! Go to the top of the O. Forums page for the Search Music function. Type Hot vs. Cool Amazon.com CD Universe Quote
Bright Moments Posted May 5, 2006 Author Report Posted May 5, 2006 where can i pick this up? do you have a link? Easy! Go to the top of the O. Forums page for the Search Music function. Type Hot vs. Cool Amazon.com CD Universe thanks!! Quote
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