Shirley Scott

[Soul Stream]

Discriminated, not as you might think. What I mean is this. Out of all the great organists, for some reason Shirley was almost ALWAYS recorded with a bassist. Which, to me, is a drag since the couple I have with her playing organ bass are really, really great and head and shoulders above her w/bass recording. "Dearly Beloved" on Blue Note and "One For Me" on Strat-East along with parts of "Soul Song" are the only things I've heard w/ her on bass and she KILLS.

I guess I wonder if the saddled her with bassists for the most part because she was a "girl."

[Jim Alfredson]

I may be wrong on this, but I recall reading some liner notes where she claimed she preferred recording with a bassist. Maybe she liked leaving her left hand free to chord. Or maybe I'm not remembering correctly.

But if you think about it, she basically mentored in Lockjaw's band and even when he had Don Patterson with him, Lockjaw still used a bassist. With freakin' DON PATTERSON!? So maybe it's Lockjaw's fault?

[Soul Stream]

I may be wrong on this, but I recall reading some liner notes where she claimed she preferred recording with a bassist. Maybe she liked leaving her left hand free to chord. Or maybe I'm not remembering correctly.

But if you think about it, she basically mentored in Lockjaw's band and even when he had Don Patterson with him, Lockjaw still used a bassist. With freakin' DON PATTERSON!? So maybe it's Lockjaw's fault?

Hmmm. Maybe so. She might have dug it. I actually DO dig alot of those albums with bassists...I mean, could "Hustlin'" have been any cooler?~!!! But I just wonder if the producers felt she wasn't cuttin' it on the bass end. And if that might have been a "girl" thing. Just a theory. But since she's the only major organist who played with bassists almost all the time on record, but not live....well it seems odd.

[mikeweil]

I just listened to a Jazzland LP by Wild Bill Moore (available on Milestone MCD-47098-2), with Johnny Hammond, and a bassist - Joe Benjamin, and Ben Riley and Ray Barretto, and this rhtyhm section cooks like mad. There is a great moment when Banjamin uses his bow with Hammond giving him great backing, etc. From a musical standpoint, a bassist with Hammond can be damn good!

Did he record with a bassist on more than this album?

[Soul Stream]

I just listened to a Jazzland LP by Wild Bill Moore (available on Milestone MCD-47098-2), with Johnny Hammond, and a bassist - Joe Benjamin, and Ben Riley and Ray Barretto, and this rhtyhm section cooks like mad. There is a great moment when Banjamin uses his bow with Hammond giving him great backing, etc. From a musical standpoint, a bassist with Hammond can be damn good!

Did he record with a bassist on more than this album?

Johnny "Hammond" Smith's early recordings are all w/ a standup bass. One of my favorites of his in the catagory is "All Soul." A great, great LP.

[ghost of miles]

For whatever reason, she seems to get short shrift in jazz histories, even those written by women about women (Dahl's STORMY WEATHER, Placksin's AMERICAN WOMEN IN JAZZ). I'm putting together a Night Lights show about her, and it's harder than I thought it would be to find much reference to her in jazz books.

[Guest]

i strongly prefer scotts approach to hammond over the whole jimmy school. she was a true master of what the hammond is suppsosed to do. it is sad today to see so many people trying to get that clean jimmy sound when the real soul of the instrument is in what ms. scott did.,...

[Jim Alfredson]

i strongly prefer scotts approach to hammond over the whole jimmy school. she was a true master of what the hammond is suppsosed to do. it is sad today to see so many people trying to get that clean jimmy sound when the real soul of the instrument is in what ms. scott did.,...

I wouldn't go that far, but I do like her tonal choices, for sure. As to why she gets shorted by the jazz history books & buffs? Hell, Jimmy Smith isn't even mentioned in most jazz history tomes I've seen.

[king ubu]

Another fan of Shirley Scott here!

Jim, I read that same story, prob. in some liner notes (I have two of her Prestige twofers, one being the Moodsville thing that has her on piano for half of the tracks - prob. read it in the notes to one of those).

"On a Clear Day" is also a very fine album!

[mikeweil]

It makes sense that is was her choice to use a bassist. But it is a recording problem to get it going. RVG made a rather thin bass sound on the Prestige sessions he recorded, and especially when he had bass and organ. George Duvivier's bass sound, e.g., is much fatter on other sessions.

Bass recording wasn't easy back then - they probably still were afraid the cutting stylus would jump out of the groove, so they stayed on the safe side. Same with bass drums.

I have a new recording by The Casualties of Jazz - there is a thread on this I started - with double bass and organ, and it sounds warm and voluminous, simply terrific. Some aspects of jazz recording have improved, after all.

[kinuta]

Count me in with the Shirley Scott fans. Two I often play are 'A Walkin' Thing' on Candid (CCD79719) with Terrell Stafford and Tim Warfield and 'Oasis' on Muse( Muse MCD 5388) with Charles Davis and Houston Pearson. On the latter they do a cut called 'Basie In Mind' which features an absolute tear the house down solo by Shirley. The Legends Of Acid Jazz set comprising 'Hip Soul' & 'Hip Twist' is also great (Prestige PRCD-24200-2).

Edited March 7, 2006 by kinuta

[Chalupa]

For whatever reason, she seems to get short shrift in jazz histories, even those written by women about women (Dahl's STORMY WEATHER, Placksin's AMERICAN WOMEN IN JAZZ). I'm putting together a Night Lights show about her, and it's harder than I thought it would be to find much reference to her in jazz books.

Try the Philly Inquirer archives(if you have trouble accessing them PM me and I'll try it from work.) They did a number of interviews/stories on her. The last 10 years or so of her performing career(save for the time away as the leader of the band for Bill Cosby's short lived game show) were spent playing piano 3 or 4 night a week in a bar in North Philly. She was fine, fine pianist as well. Her backup band included Mickey Roker, and for a while, Johnny Coles! Mickey now has the gig and filled Shirley's spot w/ Sam Dockery.

[Soul Stream]

Another fan of Shirley Scott here!

Jim, I read that same story, prob. in some liner notes (I have two of her Prestige twofers, one being the Moodsville thing that has her on piano for half of the tracks - prob. read it in the notes to one of those).

"On a Clear Day" is also a very fine album!

Count me as another huge fan of "On A Clear Day." Jimmy Cobb, Ron Carter and Shirley Scott are simply music personified on that recording! One of the best organ jazz sides cut and the sound is wonderful.

[mikeweil]

Count me as another huge fan of "On A Clear Day." Jimmy Cobb, Ron Carter and Shirley Scott are simply music personified on that recording! One of the best organ jazz sides cut and the sound is wonderful.

Is that available somewhere?

[Blacksavage]

I know that saxophonist TIM WARFIELD has recently done another Criss Cross recording in memory of SHIRLEY.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Hi Blacksavage, welcome and thanks for bumping this old thread which I hadn't seen before.

Despite what JOS might say about teaching her, Shirley was developing her style contemporaneously with JOS and first recorded a few months after his initial job for BN. Sure, I've no doubt that all the guys in Philly who were woodshedding on organ were getting stuff from each other. But Shirley, Johnny "Hammond" Smith and Lou Bennett developed styles that weren't really based on JOS' playing but sound to me much more influenced by Wild Bill Davis (and in JHS' case Erroll Garner). In Shirley's case, this is particularly clear in her accompaniments - she could swing a tenor player out of the windows - even from a basement! But yes, I think, as Jim or Mike said, she probably felt she needed both hands for that.

Smith and Bennett both did a lot of recording with bass players. I hadn't thought of the Jaws angle though; that's an interesting idea.

MG

[oren]

I'm a bass player, and one of things I'm always bummed about is that I never get to play in organ combos.

I may be wrong on this, but I recall reading some liner notes where she claimed she preferred recording with a bassist. Maybe she liked leaving her left hand free to chord. Or maybe I'm not remembering correctly.

But if you think about it, she basically mentored in Lockjaw's band and even when he had Don Patterson with him, Lockjaw still used a bassist. With freakin' DON PATTERSON!? So maybe it's Lockjaw's fault?

Hmmm. Maybe so. She might have dug it. I actually DO dig alot of those albums with bassists...I mean, could "Hustlin'" have been any cooler?~!!! But I just wonder if the producers felt she wasn't cuttin' it on the bass end. And if that might have been a "girl" thing. Just a theory. But since she's the only major organist who played with bassists almost all the time on record, but not live....well it seems odd.

[Blacksavage]

I think ultimately the reason she used bass is not important. She obviously liked it or she would not have continued. What I do believe to be important is the quality and consistency of her recordings. She was an extraordinary artist. There is no contesting that. She's done a plethora of recordings both as a leader and a sideperson that have endured the test of time, many of which are considered a mainstay in anyones jazz collection. She was one funky organist with an immediately identifiable sound and I'm just glad she existed long enough to bless us with her gift!