mrjazzman Posted October 25, 2007 Report Posted October 25, 2007 (edited) I am fascinated by this "sudden" rediscovery of him. Where were all of these fans back in the 1960's when he was being attacked/undervalued/ignored/ by almost everyone? Can't speak for everybody, but I was still in grade school... Discovered Strozier throuh Don Ellis & Oliver Nelson sides ca.1973 or so, then some Keno Duke Starta-East sides, and took it from there... Funny thing is, Leonard Feather consistently used Stozier as a poster boy for his "Crow Jim" crap, an example of a fully able white cat who wasn't getting gigs because of his race. Believe that he even posed the Strozier question to Max Roach, who took it at face value. Later on, I remember Strozier claiming that he had "African ancestors", or something like that, maybe in a DB article about Oliver NElson's early 70s African tour, where Strozier's ethnicity apparently caused a lot of specualtion amongst the spectators. Nelson was coy about the whole thing. This thread, though, is the first time I've read confident claims that Strozier wasn't "white", or even "mixed", but outright "black". After all these years! (and opportunities) Life gets wierder every damn day... "mixed", "outright black", I usually respect your comments more than anyone else on this forum but this coming from you is confusing, maybe you need to talk face-to-face with some black people. You will not hear "mixed" and/or "outright Black" come out of their mouths. OUTRIGHT BLACK, what a stupid comment. no one is "outright" anything. A white woman with blond hair and blue eyes once told me that she was an african american. I looked at her like she was cracy until she told me she was a native of South Africa and is now a US citizen so technically she was correct. As intelligent as you are, I'm sure you won't repeat such ridiculous comments in the future, you're to smart for that................. Edited October 25, 2007 by mrjazzman Quote
JSngry Posted October 25, 2007 Report Posted October 25, 2007 I am fascinated by this "sudden" rediscovery of him. Where were all of these fans back in the 1960's when he was being attacked/undervalued/ignored/ by almost everyone? Can't speak for everybody, but I was still in grade school... Discovered Strozier throuh Don Ellis & Oliver Nelson sides ca.1973 or so, then some Keno Duke Starta-East sides, and took it from there... Funny thing is, Leonard Feather consistently used Stozier as a poster boy for his "Crow Jim" crap, an example of a fully able white cat who wasn't getting gigs because of his race. Believe that he even posed the Strozier question to Max Roach, who took it at face value. Later on, I remember Strozier claiming that he had "African ancestors", or something like that, maybe in a DB article about Oliver NElson's early 70s African tour, where Strozier's ethnicity apparently caused a lot of specualtion amongst the spectators. Nelson was coy about the whole thing. This thread, though, is the first time I've read confident claims that Strozier wasn't "white", or even "mixed", but outright "black". After all these years! (and opportunities) Life gets wierder every damn day... "mixed", "outright black", I usually respect your comments more than anyone else on this forum but this coming from you is confusing, maybe you need to talk face-to-face with some black people. You will not hear "mixed" and/or "outright Black" come out of their mouths. OUTRIGHT BLACK, what a stupid comment. no one is "outright" anything. A white woman with blond hair and blue eyes once told me that she was an african american. I looked at her like she was cracy until she told me she was a native of South Africa and is now a US citizen so technically she was correct. As intelligent as you are, I'm sure you won't repeat such ridiculous comments in the future, you're to smart for that................. Hell, I don't even hear "outright black" coming out of my mouth. I suggest that the effectiveness of my syntax (i.e. - outright "black" the quotation marks conferring a suspension of literalness to the whole phrase - and also note their use arounf the words "white" & "mixed" as well - for what I thought would be obvious reasons, my bad about that) on either my conveying and/or your interpreting end might be lacking. In either case, the point was that this is the first time I've ever heard anybody claim that Frank Strozier was "black". And it is/was. Now, "mixed", that's another story. Maybe up y'all's way it's never used, but I assure you that that absence of usage is far from universal. and yes, I've heard it used many, many times by "black" people. As for needing to "talk face-to-face with some black people", well... You wanna got there, you can. But I won't, and I hope you don't. You don't know me or my background nearly well enough to make such a naive, and conceivably insulting, statement. Let's just say that I in no way speak out of "inexperience", ok? Quote
JSngry Posted October 25, 2007 Report Posted October 25, 2007 And oh yeah - apologies for any offense. Quote
AllenLowe Posted October 25, 2007 Author Report Posted October 25, 2007 just as a point of information - Strozier makes some very early appearances on alto on some Memphis black/blues recordings made for Sun Records (ca. 1952 or 1953) and there were, as far as I know, no mixed bands recording there in those days - Quote
JSngry Posted October 25, 2007 Report Posted October 25, 2007 just as a point of information - Strozier makes some very early appearances on alto on some Memphis black/blues recordings made for Sun Records (ca. 1952 or 1953)... Details, please! Quote
Niko Posted October 25, 2007 Report Posted October 25, 2007 just as a point of information - Strozier makes some very early appearances on alto on some Memphis black/blues recordings made for Sun Records (ca. 1952 or 1953)... Details, please! http://www.attictoys.com/jazz/FS.HTM Quote
Bluerein Posted October 25, 2007 Report Posted October 25, 2007 Boots? Didn't he mainly play baritone sax. How about our Dutch star altoist: Benjamin Herman (of the New Cool Collective and other bands besides his solo recordings). Quote
AllenLowe Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Posted October 26, 2007 thanks for the citation Niko - I have a few of those cuts on CD, and it's interesting to hear them, but he does not play very well yet. I also have a Howling Wolf CD with a cut that has a piano intro which is uncredited, but which I'm willing to bet is played by Phineas Newborne - Quote
AllenLowe Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Posted October 26, 2007 now this is weird - I just looked back and realized that I actually started this thread in 2004 - I completely forgot about that - especially since most of the topics I start die a quick and painless death - Quote
btownsurvivor Posted November 10, 2007 Report Posted November 10, 2007 What on earth is going on in this thread ? Posts referring to previous posts that are nowhere to be found, quoting posts that don't exist, even quotes (of quotes (of quotes ... )) some or even none of which exist, posts obviously in context of some long discussion, now nonexistent, ad absurdum. Like an intermittent shutter peering into organissimo VIP room ... how do I gain entrance ? Quote
Daniel A Posted November 10, 2007 Report Posted November 10, 2007 I've noticed this in some other threads from around 2004. For some reason the missing posts are usually by Clementine. Quote
AllenLowe Posted November 10, 2007 Author Report Posted November 10, 2007 well, it's not surprising that Hungarians make the best Chefs, as you indicate in that last post. The whole history of that country, including its very name, assure that food and culinary topics will certainly dominate the national dialog - Quote
JSngry Posted November 10, 2007 Report Posted November 10, 2007 I find the above reference to animal genitalia in crude streel language totally inappropriate (what do horse penises have to do with Jennifer Lopez' referencing Joe Maini in an obscure interview from 1998, anyway?), to the point which I recommend that the poster be banned. I mean, I'm no prude, but there must be certain standards of decency that we all respect. Quote
AllenLowe Posted November 10, 2007 Author Report Posted November 10, 2007 well, now you've really gone too far - Jen Lo is my daughter's favorite video dancer and all-purpose Latino - have you no decency, Senator? Well, as Joe Albany told me many years ago, "Oh, Joe was hung, that's for sure." **** ****actual quote, NYC, circa 1976 Quote
AllenLowe Posted November 10, 2007 Author Report Posted November 10, 2007 whatchafuckintalkinabout.com Quote
AllenLowe Posted November 10, 2007 Author Report Posted November 10, 2007 Klacktoveedesteen.com Quote
Guest Bill Barton Posted November 10, 2007 Report Posted November 10, 2007 Whiteplasticaltothreads.com Quote
couw Posted November 10, 2007 Report Posted November 10, 2007 Clem indeed got fed up some while ago and took a lot of his posts with him. Must have taken him some time to delete it all. Quote
bluemonk Posted May 15, 2008 Report Posted May 15, 2008 Paul Desmond is my favorite white alto player: ...but my favorite Black alto player is Gigi Gryce: His records with Art Farmer ("When Farmer Met Gryce" and "The Art Farmer Quintet") are so outstanding, but Gryce had a couple of groups back in the day that were great too: The Jazz Lab Quintet and The Gigi Gryce Quintet with a remarkable and underrated trumpeter named Richard Williams. Quote
Van Basten II Posted May 15, 2008 Report Posted May 15, 2008 You want a white alto player how about Christine Jensen, she's a women also if you care about these things. Quote
randissimo Posted May 15, 2008 Report Posted May 15, 2008 (edited) Though he's out of his alleged mind I'd have to say my favorite alto player is Doug Horn.. Edited May 15, 2008 by randissimo Quote
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