Name a White Alto Player

[Leeway]

Actually, I think this is the most revealing pic:

Now check those eyes

Edited December 29, 2004 by Leeway

[JSngry]

Who's that w/Marty Feldman?

[Larry Kart]

Garth -- I agree about what happened to Bill Perkins (though it was often interesting and sometimes kind of moving to hear him struggle around in the hairshirt he'd chosen to don), but I feel he got the old lyrical groove going quite well on the album he did with the Metropole Orchestra. About the "hairshirt" thing BTW, it seemed to me that the problem there was that Perkins kept trying to transform dissonance (and roughed-up timbre) into a rhythmic principle -- this because his time feel essentially remained what it always had been -- but beyond a certain limited point this didn't work; instead you'd hear (or I'd hear) the strenuously worked over layers of dissonance and gnarled timbre separating themselves from the actual note-to-note rhythms of his solos, which just weren't that angular. I do have a weak spot though for his playing on the two latter-day albums he made with Lennie Niehaus --especially the second one, with Jack Nimitz added. Everyone is playing and thinking at a high level of intensity on that one, and Niehaus to me is just so strange -- as though, rhythmically, he was determined to play just about everything oh so smoothly backwards. Sometimes I feel as though Niehaus were channeling Frankie Trumbauer by way of Berg's "Lulu."

[Brad]

I don't think anybody mentioned Jerry Dodgion. He did a nice album earlier this year.

[garthsj]

Everyone is playing and thinking at a high level of intensity on that one, and Niehaus to me is just so strange -- as though, rhythmically, he was determined to play just about everything oh so smoothly backwards. Sometimes I feel as though Niehaus were channeling Frankie Trumbauer by way of Berg's "Lulu."

Larry .. I have always had a strong penchant for Niehaus's playing. Those early five albums he did for Contemporary really do stand the test of time, and I listen to them whenever I feel the need for a real west coast lyrical "fix." The level of musicianship embodied in those five albums is unsurpassed in modern jazz, IMHO of course. Because I grew up with those albums, it evokes a Proustian reaction when I listen to his versions of "I Remember You" or "Belle of the Ball," and oh so many others ... just wonderful stuff, with those incredibly long lines of improvisation. When he made his return to playing jazz sometime in the early 90s I had a chance to talk to him at length at one of the Poston west coast bashes. He had just played a rather rough lunchtime concert, out in the Southern California sun, but it was well received by us oldtimers, and he was elated. I told him that I really enoyed listening to the extended lines he played .. and I will never forget the beam on his face as he said, "Oh you noticed that ... thank you.." Now that he has has most, but not all, of his chops back, he still plays the longest lines of anyone in the business ... way beyond what even Konitz did in his earlier years. Just a little aspect of his playing that I still enjoy.

Your comment about channeling Trumbauer by way of Berg's "Lulu" is hilarious ... as long as he does not go through "Wozzeck" ... now THAT I would object to!

Garth.

Edited December 29, 2004 by garthsj

[frank m]

I'll reiterate----haven't any of you guys heard of Johnny Bothwell. Poor talented guy.

[AllenLowe]

I like Bothwell, and have a nice LP with notes, I think, by Dan Morgenstern -

[frank m]

Alan--Do you perhaps have any idea what became of him? He disappeared abruptly from the scene.

[Spontooneous]

Sometimes I feel as though Niehaus were channeling Frankie Trumbauer by way of Berg's "Lulu."

Ack! Now I have to go get some Niehaus records. Darn it, Larry!

[SGUD missile]

Most of my memories of him date back to my college days ..My lead alto guy in my college band really like him when he was working with Boyd Raeburn in the mid 40s ..

I'll ask my neighbor , Milt Kleeb ( who used to arrange for the Raeburn band alsong with George Handy ) if he knows what became of Bothwell ..

anyone check out the AMG or Googled him ??

So I did ..theres a lot there:

>>Alto sax, bandleader. Johnny Bothwell walked away from the music business at the end of the '40s, after having been fairly successful both as a player and bandleader. He moved from Chicago to New York in 1940, recording initially with Woody Herman and Sonny Dunham. Bothwell was the principal soloist with Boyd Raeburn for a while, then played with Gene Krupa. After that he headed his own groups from 1945-1949 in Chicago, New England and New York, then moved to Miami upon quitting playing in 1949. ~ Ron Wynn, All Music Guide

Edited December 29, 2004 by SGUD missile

[AmirBagachelles]

Art Pepper stands pretty tall among any and all alto players.

[BruceH]

Richie Kamuca's tribute to Charlie Parker album, "Charlie," reveals him (i.e. Kamuca) to be one fine alto player, very close to Bird in spirit but his own man too. Latter-day Kamuca (on either horn) is a joy -- not that I don't like early Kamuca, but a case can be made that he came fully into his own in about '60 or '61. There's an album of session material I think, from '58 or so (with Scott LaFaro? have heard it but don't own it) that finds Kamuca halfway between his early Pres manner and contemporary Rollins (with maybe a pinch of Trane), and boy does he sound hung up, as well he might have. Interesting that his running buddy Bill Perkins went though some of the same changes.

Can you recommend some "latter-day Kamuca" albums that are available? (I only have his early stuff.)

[cannonball-addict]

Chris Potter

[cannonball-addict]

Andy Axelrad (currently with USAF Airmen of Note)

Lee Lachman (formerly with USAF Airmen of Note)

Mike Crotty (formerly with USAF Airmen of Note)

Marty Nau (formerly of US Navy Commodores)

then there's:

Moe Koffman

Harvey Pittel

John Zorn

John Tchicai

Tim Berne

Marty Ehrlich

Lanny Morgan

Tom Scott (yes he played some alto)

[Dmitry]

Vito Price

[Larry Kart]

Unfortunately, the three latter-day Kamuca albums I know -- "Richie," "Drop Me Off In Harlem," and "Charlie" -- all from the mid-1970s, all originally on Concord LPs (never saw one on CD), are all OOP. I recall reading here that they were leased to Concord by Kamuca and that the rights reverted to his estate, so Concord couldn't reissue them in the unlikely event that they wanted to. On the other hand, I've seen some of these albums used from time to time in stores like the Jazz Record Mart in Chicago, so it's not like they've disappeared from the face of the planet. Good hunting.

[garthsj]

Just to add that all three of those LPs contain sublime music. Why they are not available is a mystery to most west coast jazz fans considering how little Richie Kamuca is actually available in a small combo setting ... I wonder if anyone has ever approached the Kamuca estate with a reasonable offer?

Edited December 30, 2004 by garthsj

[AllenLowe]

I checked Switchboard, and there are 20 John Bothwell's listed in the US - anybody feel like hitting the phones?

[BruceH]

Unfortunately, the three latter-day Kamuca albums I know -- "Richie," "Drop Me Off In Harlem," and "Charlie" -- all from the mid-1970s, all originally on Concord LPs (never saw one on CD), are all OOP. I recall reading here that they were leased to Concord by Kamuca and that the rights reverted to his estate, so Concord couldn't reissue them in the unlikely event that they wanted to. On the other hand, I've seen some of these albums used from time to time in stores like the Jazz Record Mart in Chicago, so it's not like they've disappeared from the face of the planet. Good hunting.

Thanks much. I'll keep an eye open.

[JSngry]

I checked Switchboard, and there are 20 John Bothwell's listed in the US - anybody feel like hitting the phones?

You might want to give Aric that gig.

[melvsax]

How about.....

Richard Tabnik

Loren Stillman

Billy Drewes

Hayden Chisholm

Bernie McGann - should be able to get his stuff from Cadence

Zoot Sims - I've only heard him playing alto on a Gerry Mulligan album. I dug his sound.

That's All

Adam

[4%XB]

Mark Lewis

Edited October 19, 2007 by 4%XB

[flat5]

Damn! None of you know of Alan Praskin.

[mikeweil]

Alan Praskin? Didn't he live in Germany, at least for some years? I faintly remember seeing him with some German band.

[Niko]

Alan Praskin? Didn't he live in Germany, at least for some years? I faintly remember seeing him with some German band.

seems like it http://www.jazzclub-life.at/Musiker/Praskin.htm for instance, some funny spelling on that site

Mal Woldron, Joz Albany, Bud Freeman, Junior Cock, Wilbur Little, Fritz Pauer, Hans Kollar, Sam Rivers, Sunny Murray, Reaver Harris, Burton Green, James Zitro und Termusa Hino