Soul Stream Posted December 26, 2004 Report Posted December 26, 2004 O.K...there's no "greatest" "Best", ect....I know...but DAMN...Doug Watkins has got it all. Tone, touch and beautiful intonation. Had to dig out some Tina Brooks after watching that Ray Charles DVD with him on it. And I forgot how great Watkins sounded on "Minor Move." I love his bass playing. Quote
gslade Posted December 27, 2004 Report Posted December 27, 2004 Just Happen to be listening to the Transition Sessions with Byrd right Now! Quote
Soul Stream Posted December 27, 2004 Author Report Posted December 27, 2004 Just Happen to be listening to the Transition Sessions with Byrd right Now! Is that the one with "Watkin's Blues" or something to that effect? The one that just starts off with Doug walkin' the blues for quite some time. His lines are terriffic on that. Quote
Larry Kart Posted December 27, 2004 Report Posted December 27, 2004 Mmm-hmm -- what a linear singer. There is, or should be (if they used the ones I wrote for the Japanese LP issue in the mid-1980s), a fond Red Garland encomium to Watkins in the "Minor Move" liner notes. Quote
gslade Posted December 27, 2004 Report Posted December 27, 2004 Just Happen to be listening to the Transition Sessions with Byrd right Now! Is that the one with "Watkin's Blues" or something to that effect? The one that just starts off with Doug walkin' the blues for quite some time. His lines are terriffic on that. Yep it sure is: Doug's Blues Track 1 Quote
mikeweil Posted December 27, 2004 Report Posted December 27, 2004 I have to admit I always like Doug Watkins a lot more than his cousin Paul Chambers. Too bad he died so early. One of the few to be elected to play behind Charles Mingus' piano. Borrowed a cello for his own Prestige LP, played it for a day and had better intonation than some others had after years of playing. A real great talent. Quote
Soul Stream Posted December 27, 2004 Author Report Posted December 27, 2004 (edited) Mmm-hmm -- what a linear singer. There is, or should be (if they used the ones I wrote for the Japanese LP issue in the mid-1980s), a fond Red Garland encomium to Watkins in the "Minor Move" liner notes. Larry, I didn't check the notes until you mentioned them. Wonderful job you did. Wondered if you had any other information on Brooks that you didn't have a chance to share in your liners. Did you get a chance to talk to Oliver Beener? Also, is the Ray Charles concert the only footage of Tina Brooks now known to be in existence (Have you seen it yet?!). In relation to "Nutville," too bad they edited Doug's solo (and a bad edit at that, sounds very disturbing to me at least.) But does Watkins walk on that one or what! Beautiful. Edited December 27, 2004 by Soul Stream Quote
Larry Kart Posted December 27, 2004 Report Posted December 27, 2004 If my memory is working, that quote about Brooks was from a phone conversation I had with Oliver Beener. I think Cuscuna put me in touch with him. All I know (or remember) was in the liner notes. I did see some of that Charles footage when it was playing in the Jazz Record Mart one day, but I was in a hurry and couldn't linger. Quote
Soul Stream Posted December 27, 2004 Author Report Posted December 27, 2004 Thanks for the insight Larry. Hope you get a chance to see the Charles video soon. It's a brief show of Brooks, but great nonetheless. Quote
brownie Posted December 27, 2004 Report Posted December 27, 2004 I was lucky to catch him a couple of times (wish I could have gone there every night) when he played with the Donald Byrd/Bobby Jaspar quintet at the Chat Qui Peche back in 1958. Some of the music is still available on the two CDs 'Byrd in Paris' released in the Jazz in Paris series. Quote
mikeweil Posted December 27, 2004 Report Posted December 27, 2004 (edited) Now is there anyone you haven't seen live? Oh, the advantage of growing up and living in Paris at the right time .... Here's a discography. Edited December 27, 2004 by mikeweil Quote
brownie Posted December 27, 2004 Report Posted December 27, 2004 Mike, I did miss some... Charlie Parker... Also Bix and Buddy Bolden. But that's because those last two ones did not travel to Paris Quote
Bill Fenohr Posted December 27, 2004 Report Posted December 27, 2004 I guess there are some advantages to being in ones 60"s. Growing up in Detroit i got to see all the Motor City guys when they would come home for vacations and such. Watkins, Chambers,Byrd,Pepper Adams, the Jones brothers and on and on. It was a pretty nice time to be coming up. Quote
king ubu Posted July 24, 2007 Report Posted July 24, 2007 Bumping this thread up again! I love Doug Watkins a lot! In fact he's one of my very favourite bassists active in the years of hardbop, his sound and lines contribute greatly to many a Prestige session he's on. I think I first heard him on "The Cats" by Flanagan/Burrell/Coltrane/Sulieman, but of course he's on more than just a bunch of my CDs... many james by Coltrane, Gene Ammons and others, and most notably he's great on a couple of Savoy albums, too, one that comes to mind being "Introducing Lee Morgan". Anyway, I just recently bought his sole leader entry in the OJC/Fantasy catalogue, "Soulnik". Watkins is playing cello there exclusively, with Yusef Lateef (mostly on flute, but he does some great blues playing on oboe - no tenor for a change), Hugh Lawson, Herman Wright and Lex Humphries (so actually it's a Lateef group hired by Watkins). Watkins - so speak the liners - had just played a cello for the first time in his life three days prior to the session and sounds quite good on it (some intonation problems/weirdnesses here and there... fingerings aren't the same as on double bass, it seems). This most definitely is one to get fast (I assume the other bassist-led dates too: the one by Wilbur Ware and the three by Sam Jones - I got them all by now, the Ware is great, with Griffin & John Jenkins on saxes), before OJCs have all disappeared. Ron Carter's "Where" with Dolphy is somewhat similar (cello with flute/bass clarinet) and comes recommended, too - it's also part of the 9CD Complete Prestige box of Dolphy's. While I like this album (the Watkins, that is), it's also kind of a lost opportunity, or rather a memento of how short Watkins' life and career have been, since he never did a similar album as a leader where he was completely in charge of things, and playing his great bass... (the Transition album is rather kind of a Silver/Blakey/Byrd thing to me - not bad, but it goes along with plenty of similar dates from the mid fifties) Quote
Daniel A Posted July 24, 2007 Report Posted July 24, 2007 Ubu, what are your thoughs on the cello as a solo instrument? I can't really stand Ron Carter on cello (though it may have more to do with his choice of notes to play; it sounds pointless to me)... I can understand it gives a bassist the opportunity to step into the role of a solo horn, but I tend to prefer the sound of a bass over a plucked cello. Quote
king ubu Posted July 24, 2007 Report Posted July 24, 2007 I quite like the cello - O.P. is fine, but most notable would be, I think, Erik Friedlander (great solo disc "Maldoror"), but that's a whole different area than Watkins or Carter... I quite like the Dolphy dates with cello, for sure. There's a weirdness that gets otherworldly in some spots (think "Weird Nightmare" or some of the early 50s Gil Mellé sides from his very first 10 incher on Blue Note). Quote
Daniel A Posted July 24, 2007 Report Posted July 24, 2007 Thanks! OP probably would be my choice, but I admit that I haven't heard that much jazz cello. Quote
king ubu Posted July 24, 2007 Report Posted July 24, 2007 Thanks! OP probably would be my choice, but I admit that I haven't heard that much jazz cello. There's a whole thread here: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...54&hl=cello A great cello player I saw live recently is Vincent Courtois (he has played with Louis Sclavis, but I've seen him in trio with Sylvie Courvoisier and Ellery Eskelin). Quote
RDK Posted July 24, 2007 Report Posted July 24, 2007 Second that Watkins OJC disc. It's long been a favorite. Quote
AndrewHill Posted July 25, 2007 Report Posted July 25, 2007 A word for Art Blakey's 'The Jazz Messengers' on Columbia and the Transition 'Watkins at Large' (or the 2cd Conn. w/ Byrd). Watkins was a major talent that had the potential of being something really great, if his life wasn't cut short. That seems to happen way too often in jazz: Scott LaFaro, Clifford Brown, Richie Powell, Tina Brooks, Sonny Clark and on and on. Quote
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted July 26, 2007 Report Posted July 26, 2007 wasnt there a ron carter interview someone posted on her (given by the guy from the bad plus) and in it ron said that by far doug watkins was by far his favorite and the best bass player ever, even more than Mr PC-- Quote
Tillugg Posted July 26, 2007 Report Posted July 26, 2007 Doug Watkins was a great bassist. I haven't heard him on cello, will have to check out Soulnik. There seems to be a few copies on Amazon Marketplace. He even has his own myspace now! doug watkins myspace Quote
ghost of miles Posted July 26, 2007 Report Posted July 26, 2007 Ordered SOULNIK several days ago & just now noticed this thread--the Watkins popped up on Amazon as I was ordering another OJC & I went for it, given that I like the TRANSITION sessions so much, and that OJCs of this sort are headed the way of the dodo. Didn't Ray Brown's JAZZ CELLO get reissued a couple of years ago? Quote
mikeweil Posted July 30, 2007 Report Posted July 30, 2007 Didn't Ray Brown's JAZZ CELLO get reissued a couple of years ago? Yes, in the Verve LPR series. Quote
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