Packer/Eagle Great Reggie White has died!

[Jim Alfredson]

Criminey. This post should be in the political forum!!!

No, I never met the man and I don't know him personally, but you can paint a pretty accurate picture about someone by their actions and words. He was obviously a great football player. But he also felt a lot of hatred towards homosexuals. Saying that they are responsable for the downfall of society goes beyond a stupid statement to me (although obviously very stupid) and thus I can't think of him as just a great football player.

It is too bad he died young.

[Big Al]

Criminey. This post should be in the political forum!!!

No, I never met the man and I don't know him personally, but you can paint a pretty accurate picture about someone by their actions and words. He was obviously a great football player. But he also felt a lot of hatred towards homosexuals. Saying that they are responsable for the downfall of society goes beyond a stupid statement to me (although obviously very stupid) and thus I can't think of him as just a great football player.

It is too bad he died young.

FWIW, I completely agree with this statement.

[connoisseur series500]

Criminey. This post should be in the political forum!!!

Take note 7/4, who is always spreading his brand of crap about "red" states. Keep your garbage to the political forum, please. I chose to post there only infrequently because I tire of this type of nonsense.

When I want to get into a fight, I know where to go. Try to keep it clean elsewhere...

[7/4]

Criminey.  This post should be in the political forum!!!

Take note 7/4, who is always spreading his brand of crap about "red" states. Keep your garbage to the political forum, please. I chose to post there only infrequently because I tire of this type of nonsense.

When I want to get into a fight, I know where to go. Try to keep it clean elsewhere...

ah...but you keep coming after me, bean wacker...

[Big Al]

unless ya'll believe that too, that type of thinking HAS to be censured; does it mean his life was w/o other merits? no but such retragrade, destructive comments ought not to go unremarked.

Word!

If people want to make this part of their remembrance of him (and censure the remarks they should), fine; I'm just concerned that this is the ONLY thing they choose to remember about him.

I'm not even sure it deserves equal footing with his sports accomplishments. But then, how much of that would we remember were it not for his outspokenness?

Just thinking out loud....

Edited December 27, 2004 by Big Al

[Jim Alfredson]

Man... this thread has gotten wacky.

[Big Al]

Wonder if the funeral's gonna be anything like this?

[connoisseur series500]

ah...but you keep coming after me, bean wacker...

Actually, I leave most of your dumb posts unanswered.

But this crap about "red" States must end (at least outside the Politcal forum.)

As for persecuting you, I apologize If I've given you that notion. I shall leave you alone henceforth...

[7/4]

unless ya'll believe that too, that type of thinking HAS to be censured; does it mean his life was w/o other merits? no but such retragrade, destructive comments ought not to go unremarked.

Word!

If people want to make this part of their remembrance of him (and censure the remarks they should), fine; I'm just concerned that this is the ONLY thing they choose to remember about him.

I'm not even sure it deserves equal footing with his sports accomplishments. But then, how much of that would we remember were it not for his outspokenness?

Just thinking out loud....

his sports accomplishments? not too important. life is not sports.

[nmorin]

For what it's worth, one of the football commentators mentioned that White had said that the comments he made to the Wisconsin legislature (e.g., Asians turning TVs into watches) were one of his biggest regrets. I don't know if he ever repudiated his opinions on homosexuality. His prowess on the football field is unquestionable. Off the field, he struck me the way some folks' great uncles do: they would never DO anything bad to anyone, and are kind and generous in their actions, but they spout opinions that are offensive (racist, homophobic, and chauvinistic). I am never quite sure how to think of those folks.

[7/4]

(7/4 @ Dec 27 2004, 06:46 PM)

ah...but you keep coming after me, bean wacker...

Actually, I leave most of your dumb posts unanswered.

particularly the ones that make you look silly?

But this crap about "red" States must end (at least outside the Politcal forum.)

Oh, enough about the election Meester 500, you party won. Quit whining...

As for persecuting you, I apologize If I've given you that notion. I shall leave you alone henceforth...

I'll hold off on the minority discrimination law suite.

[connoisseur series500]

For what it's worth, one of the football commentators mentioned that White had said that the comments he made to the Wisconsin legislature (e.g., Asians turning TVs into watches) were one of his biggest regrets. I don't know if he ever repudiated his opinions on homosexuality. His prowess on the football field is unquestionable. Off the field, he struck me the way some folks' great uncles do: they would never DO anything bad to anyone, and are kind and generous in their actions, but they spout opinions that are offensive (racist, homophobic, and chauvinistic). I am never quite sure how to think of those folks.

Probably accurate comments. Still, there was something about the guy which suggested he was very narrowminded. You get the feeling that you wouldn't want to be on the other side of the fence with this man.

At the same time, he exuded a great deal of generosity and leadership.

He was a mixed bag for sure.

[Christiern]

Reggie White: "In the process of history, homosexuals have never been castrated, millions of them never died. "

• There must be millions of very, very old homosexuals around!
  

Big Al: "Speaking of inequity, you're the one who decided to bring it to everyone's attention what an "outspoken born-again homophobe" White allegedly was.

I am sure there are millions who appreciate your little gesture of 'equity'."

• Not being into football, I asked if this was the guy who made those bigoted remarks. His name struck a bell and connoted something not so nice to me. Well, I guess my recollection was right. I had no idea that he was so accomplished in his field--had I only known that, I would have closed my ears to his bigotry. As for White "allegedly" being an outspoken born-again homophobe, unless what I saw and heard was an act of ventriloquism, I don't think we need apply the term, "alleged," here.
  

Big Al: "Oh, and one other thing: none of the folks you listed have passed on. I suspect that when they do, you'll be just as "equitable" to those folks as you are to White.

• I believe it was White's death that brought him back into the news. Are you suggesting that his bigotry is somehow connected with his mortality? Sorry to shock you, Big Al, but I don't think Reggie White's misguided, idiotic remarks were in any way affected by his death--except, of course, that he will no longer be making them. How sad it it took the final curtain to close that show.
  
  I wonder if you will start accepting Louis Farakhan's anti-Semitic remarks the moment he dies--will you?
  

[connoisseur series500]

7/4....

it has nothing to do with the election.

I am just continually offended by the way you routinely dismiss certain parts of this country as "red" States, including my State of Ohio.

I find it highly offensive.

Am I wrong to feel that way?

I mean, think a little for once in your life...

[7/4]

7/4....

it has nothing to do with the election.

I am just continually offended by the way you routinely dismiss certain parts of this country as "red" States, including my State of Ohio.

I find it highly offensive.

Am I wrong to feel that way?

I mean, think a little for once in your life...

Sounds like a lot of baggage, 500. No need to insult my intelligence, if you have problems with living in Ohio, get out now!

[JSngry]

Still no mention of the role that sleep apnea played in his death?

If anybody has a link to relevant info re:this particular case, I'd apprecaiate it.

[BERIGAN]

How long before someone mentions how Hitler was probably a swell guy and kind to his friends too?

Well, I am sure you would admire the fact he was an artist, writer, socialist, vegetarian, anti religion, for gun control....

[Dan Gould]

Still no mention of the role that sleep apnea played in his death?

If anybody has a link to relevant info re:this particular case, I'd apprecaiate it.

AP report, via ESPN.com

Associated Press

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- NFL great Reggie White may have died because of a respiratory disease combined with other health problems, a preliminary autopsy report said Monday.

White most likely had a condition that affected the amount of air his lungs could hold, resulting in "fatal cardiac arrhythmia," said Dr. Mike Sullivan, the medical examiner for Mecklenburg County and a forensic pathologist.

The report issued by Sullivan's office also said sleep apnea may have been a factor.

The fearsome Philadelphia and Green Bay defensive end was 43.

The report is a preliminary one; determining a final cause of death could take up to three months, Sullivan's office said.

White died Sunday at Presbyterian Hospital in Huntersville after being taken there from his home in nearby Cornelius. His wife, Sara, called 911.

White had the disease, known as sarcoidosis, for several years, family spokesman Keith Johnson said Sunday. He described it as a respiratory ailment that affected White's sleep.

On its Web site, the American Lung Association describes sarcoidosis as a disease characterized by the presence of small areas of inflamed cells that can attack any organ of the body but is most frequently found in the lungs.

The cause of the disease, which is most common among blacks and white northern Europeans, is not known.

Sleep apnea causes people to stop breathing repeatedly -- in some cases, hundreds of times -- during their sleep.

"A 43-year-old is not supposed to die in his sleep," Johnson said. "It was not only unexpected, but it was also a complete surprise. Reggie wasn't a sick man ... he was vibrant. He had lots and lots of energy, lots of passion."

********************

Sidebar on sarcoidosis:

Sarcoidosis usually not fatal

Sarcoidosis, the respiratory disease that may have contributed to the death of NFL great Reggie White, usually comes and goes mysteriously, with about 95 percent of patients recovering, experts say.

Sarcoidosis is an inflammatory disease of unknown origin that usually is very mild, said Dr. Norman H. Edelman, a Stony Brook, N.Y., specialist and a scientific consultant to the American Lung Association.

"It's a disease with an exaggerated inflammatory response to some sort of trigger," he said Monday. "It could be an inhaled pollutant or toxin. But we don't really know for sure."

Sarcoidosis is lethal in about 5 percent of cases, and it is uncommon to die of the disease at 43, Edelman said. In about 20 percent of the cases, he said, the disease progresses and the inflammation spreads throughout the lungs, and, sometimes, to the liver, brain or heart. But even then, recovery is the most common outcome.

"The most common thing we see in patients with sarcoidosis are enlarged lymph nodes in the chest and nothing else," Edelman said. "Eventually, in most cases, the disease just goes away and doesn't get worse."

Sarcoidosis is slightly more common among blacks and Scandinavians, Edelman said.

"Typically, the symptoms are breathlessness," the doctor said. "The inflammation in the lungs leads to scarring and it makes the lungs stiff. They must work harder to expand."

-- The Associated Press

[Jazzmoose]

Sarcoidosis is slightly more common among blacks and Scandinavians, Edelman said.

Now that's an odd combination...

[JSngry]

Thanks, Dan.

Glad (if you can call it that...) to hear that it wasn't sleep apnea alone that killed him.

[Big Al]

Big Al: "Speaking of inequity, you're the one who decided to bring it to everyone's attention what an "outspoken born-again homophobe" White allegedly was.

I am sure there are millions who appreciate your little gesture of 'equity'."

• Not being into football, I asked if this was the guy who made those bigoted remarks. His name struck a bell and connoted something not so nice to me. Well, I guess my recollection was right. I had no idea that he was so accomplished in his field--had I only known that, I would have closed my ears to his bigotry. As for White "allegedly" being an outspoken born-again homophobe, unless what I saw and heard was an act of ventriloquism, I don't think we need apply the term, "alleged," here.
  

Big Al: "Oh, and one other thing: none of the folks you listed have passed on. I suspect that when they do, you'll be just as "equitable" to those folks as you are to White.

• I believe it was White's death that brought him back into the news. Are you suggesting that his bigotry is somehow connected with his mortality? Sorry to shock you, Big Al, but I don't think Reggie White's misguided, idiotic remarks were in any way affected by his death--except, of course, that he will no longer be making them. How sad it it took the final curtain to close that show.
  
  I wonder if you will start accepting Louis Farakhan's anti-Semitic remarks the moment he dies--will you?
  

You really expect me to believe that you weren't aware of his athletic prowess? This from someone who searches what seems like every available news source on the web for all sorts of available information; from someone as well-read and intelligent as you are; from someone who makes quite a fuss about the formatting of his posts. No, I don't buy that for a second.

What I do believe is that you will go out of your way to point out just about everyone's flaws, be they athletes, politicians, celebrities, hell, even fellow board-members. Why is that, Chris? Why are you so obsessed with pointing out others flaws? Are you that uncomfortable in your own skin that you feel the need to bring others up/down to your level?

As for Farrakhan's remarks, I'll make a promise: I'll accept on the same day, the same moment, that you do. Or have you already?

[The Red Menace]

How long before someone mentions how Hitler was probably a swell guy and kind to his friends too?

Well, I am sure you would admire the fact he was an artist, writer, socialist, vegetarian, anti religion, for gun control....

He was a fascist, not a socialist, and he hated gays and Jews. Sound familiar? No, I'm not comparing Reggie White to him, but Hitlerism finds more allies on the right (the Klan, white supremacy groups, etc.) than on the left... and did so in this country back in the late 1930s.

Signed,

Red "liberaton theology" Menace

[Christiern]

Big Al:"What I do believe is that you will go out of your way to point out just about everyone's flaws, be they athletes, politicians, celebrities, hell, even fellow board-members. Why is that, Chris? Why are you so obsessed with pointing out others [sic] flaws? Are you that uncomfortable in your own skin that you feel the need to bring others up/down to your level?"

• Yes, Big Al, I make it a point to find flaws--and when I do, I just can't wait to broadcast them! That's one reason why you frustrate me so, you are flawless! Can't you do anything wrong?
  
  One last thing, if I am bringing people up or down to my level, as you claim, what do you perceive to be my level? Whom have I brought down to it? Whom have I elevated to it? Aren't you just a bit confused?
  
  As for being aware of White's athletic prowess, I did know that he was a pro player, and thus I assumed that was pretty good at it, but I had never heard of him until he started--in the name of what he perceived to be Christianity--publicly spewing his misguided bigotry, baring his colossal ignorance.
  

[Big Al]

Big Al:"What I do believe is that you will go out of your way to point out just about everyone's flaws, be they athletes, politicians, celebrities, hell, even fellow board-members. Why is that, Chris? Why are you so obsessed with pointing out others [sic] flaws? Are you that uncomfortable in your own skin that you feel the need to bring others up/down to your level?"

Yes, Big Al, I make it a point to find flaws--and when I do, I just can't wait to broadcast them! That's one reason why you frustrate me so, you are flawless! Can't you do anything wrong?

Aren't you just a bit confused?

Well, now that you mention it...... the answer to both questions is a resounding YES! If you wish, I can PM a nice long list of my flaws, with "not knowing when to shut up and let the other man have the last word" somewhere in the top ten.

[maren]

Sarcoidosis is slightly more common among blacks and Scandinavians, Edelman said.

Now that's an odd combination...

Well, actually, people have been publishing obscure genetics papers from time to time saying that Scandinavians (Swedes in particular) have some striking genetic similarities to some Africans. Autoimmune/inflammatory diseases like sarcoidosis and lupus are a similarity. Not so strange to me if you believe that Homo sapiens originated in Africa and populated the world from there. Then for a long time the Scandinavians were more isolated, as a gene pool, than other Europeans. So they probably retain a distinctive genetic profile closer to their "founders" than do people that "got out" more!

Anybody here ever hear of Alva Rogers (actress, singer, performance artist)? She had a track on an early Knitting Factory compilation that was a kind of sung "press conference" including this question and response:

Q: Are you from Africa?

A: Isn't everybody ?