2004-05 Hot Stove League

[ghost of miles]

Did I miss a thread? If not, we sorely need one... Pedro to the Mets? Pavano to the Yanks? Wildman Wells to the Bosox? Cubs looking to unload Sammy? No baseball in D.C. after all? (Story here.)

Discuss, discuss...

[Dan Gould]

One more bit of news, David:

In the aftermath of Pedro's betrayal, the Sox have thrown more money at Renteria and apparently they have an agreement.

Now, it will take a lot of getting used to with Wells in the rotation, but I like the fact that so little of his money is guaranteed. If he pitches effectively and earns his incentives, than I think that will have to mean that the Red Sox did well in his starts and will have done well for his two seasons. After all, if he's healthy enough to pitch but too old to be effective, they'll release him and only be on the hook for four or five million a year.

Now, as to Pavano, it was definitely a surprise because so much had been said that Pavano wanted to come to the Sox, wanted to learn from Schilling, etc., etc., and yet in the end, apparently the family connection to the Yankees (Mom and Dad HUGE fans) tipped the balance. I still say the Yanks overpaid, and Pavano has to prove he can remain healthy and build on his recent success. No guarantees there, and another thing to consider is how another fine NL pitcher, Vasquez, hasn't exactly blown the AL away. It is a challenge, with DHs instead of ptichers.

Which takes us to Pedro.

He deserves what he is gong to get:

Crap from the NY tabloids the first time and every time he pulls his Diva act.

Crap (hopefully) from management who, we can only hope, will not tolerate the diva crap the way the Red Sox did (can Willie Randolph afford to lose the clubhouse in his very first managing job at any level?).

The pleasure of being king of the hill of a losing franchise. The Mets have lost 90 + two years running. With or without Pedro, they are a bad, bad, team, with an aging, brittle offense, and an aging and/or brittle pitching staff. This remains a losing team. Pedro may win 20 again in the NL-no DH may mean that he gets to go 7 + instead of 6 or 6 +, but he will not get a sniff of the playoffs ever again, while I fully expect the Red Sox to do what is necessary to remain highly competitive and reach the playoffs.

And, of course, at any time going forward, the Mets will get what they deserve for throwing so much money at him: a blown out shoulder on an uninsured pitcher.

Yes, you can tell, I am PISSED. I am pissed because replacing Pedro's production in 2005, and possibly 2006, will be very hard to do. But beyond that, he is not worth the $$. Furthermore, we won't be hearing anymore "Who's Your Daddy?" and we can only hope that his replacement is someone who isn't AFRAID to face the Yankees.

In the end, I am really pissed at Pedro for lying. He said he wanted to return. He said he wanted to finish his career in Boston. The Red Sox did what should have been necessary to insure that: They gave him more money than they're paying Schilling. That's not respect? No, its not ENOUGH respect, because to Pedro, RESPECT=DOLLARS.

Pedro has no concept of anything other than the benjamins. He has no idea how nasty the NY tabloids can be. He has no idea, nor did he care, about the reservoir of goodwill he had in Boston. He could have done a Mark McGuire, or a Brad Radke, and taken a respectable amount of $$ and stayed where he was happy and loved. But no. Fuck him!

Oh, and one more thing: He still gets to hear "Who's Your Daddy?" at least twice a year.

I'll be very interested to hear Brad's feelings on getting this guy.

[Brad]

I can understand Dan being pissed and I don't disagree with anything he has said. I mentioned to a friend of mine at work who is a big fan like Dan that I wished Pedro had stayed with the Red Sox, nothing to do with the Mets, but all to do with the fans and the franchise. I think he should have finished his career with the Sox. He's going into the Hall with the Sox so why not stay there. People cite the money that he couldn't pass it up. Why , how much is enough, for chriss sake. The guy is revered in Boston.

Onto the Mets, he's coming into a tough situation like Dan described. A rookie manager. Pedro is a lot to handle. They could have a decent pitching staff but their hitting is abominable. They need to get young and this is certainly not the way. Look, they're going to be bad for awhile so accept it and rebuild. Getting Sosa (god forbid) or Moises Alou is not the answer.

The whole thing is a PR move. The Mets want to get the back pages of the Daily News and the Post back and this is certainly a way to do it.

The Mets have thrown a lot of money in the wrong places in the last few years and this will probably be another example. Delgado would be another example of that also. This team was much better run before Wilpon got full control. They would have never gotten Piazza but for Doubleday insisting on it. And it's not like it's a poor team; they have money. They just make foolish decisions. In that respect you have to admire the Sox. They know how much they're going to give and if it goes over the line, they walk away.

I was surprised by Pavano and disappointed but their pitching staff is not so hot either. He's only been a winner for the past year and a half so the jury is still out on him.

Renteria is solid. Good pickup.

[PHILLYQ]

In the end, I am really pissed at Pedro for lying. He said he wanted to return. He said he wanted to finish his career in Boston. The Red Sox did what should have been necessary to insure that: They gave him more money than they're paying Schilling. That's not respect? No, its not ENOUGH respect, because to Pedro, RESPECT=DOLLARS.

Pedro has no concept of anything other than the benjamins. He has no idea how nasty the NY tabloids can be. He has no idea, nor did he care, about the reservoir of goodwill he had in Boston. He could have done a Mark McGuire, or a Brad Radke, and taken a respectable amount of $$ and stayed where he was happy and loved. But no. Fuck him!

Oh, and one more thing: He still gets to hear "Who's Your Daddy?" at least twice a year.

I'll be very interested to hear Brad's feelings on getting this guy.

Dan,

Those are two guys out of how many free agents? 99% or more of free agents go to who pays the most money, with little regard for winning record, etc. So Pedro is no different from the overwhelming majority of players-BFD.That said, I think the Mets made a mistake in signing him- it may take 2-3 years before they have a decent team, and by that time Pedro will be 36+ with a dead arm.Methinks Minaya made a move to make a move, get some of that NY Post/NY Daily News back page action, make a splash,etc.

Signing Wells is a good move as long as he's healthy- he has a rubber arm and welcomes pitching in big games. He helps the bullpen a lot by pitching very deep into games. The Yankees need a starting pitcher who can do that frequently, as I thought Gordon's arm was ready to fall off near the end of the season from overuse and he got no rest in the playoffs..

I'm on the fence about Pavano- he hasn't been a top pitcher for long, and to invest 4 years in someone who may have had his 'career year' already is iffy.Hopefully he'll prove me wrong.

If I hear any owner complain about finances after the D-Backs signed Troy Glaus, they should jusy shove it! This is a guy who has hardly played in TWO YEARS, had his shoulder reconstructed,and those idiots throw $40Mil+ at him? WTF?!

[Dan Gould]

Dan,

Those are two guys out of how many free agents? 99% or more of free agents go to who pays the most money, with little regard for winning record, etc. So Pedro is no different from the overwhelming majority of players-BFD.

......

If I hear any owner complain about finances after the D-Backs signed Troy Glaus, they should jusy shove it! This is a guy who has hardly played in TWO YEARS, had his shoulder reconstructed,and those idiots throw $40Mil+ at him? WTF?!

Yeah, but do the overwhelming majority of FA give lip service to the idea of coming back? Do they talk about how much they want to stay, and I'm not leaving, blah blah blah? I'd have no problem with Pedro taking the money had he not blown so much BS smoke up our asses. That's the problem with how he handled it. He acted like he would do a McGuire/Radke but it was all bullshit.

As far as the D-Backs go, its even worse actually: This is a team with gigantic debt problems, including the fact that on a bunch of deferred contracts, they decided not to bother to fund them!

[Stefan Wood]

You can kiss baseball in DC goodbye. Frankly, I think both sides needed to be kicked in the butt. Baseball for their arrogance and stubbornness, and the DC Council for playing politics and not doing the basic study beforehand of what the costs involved of building a new stadium. This has been front page news here in DC, and 50/50 split opinion on what's happening. Personally I wanted baseball in the city, but the costs involved are too prohibitive.

[Brownian Motion]

Hooray for Linda Cropp! Let the current crop of baseball extortionists--owners and players both--find another community to fleece.

[Johnny E]

First Sexson, now Beltre! The M's are bustin' some serious moves this year! Now if we could just get a front line starter and a middle reliever we'd be back in the game and then some. The M's owners are scared stiff that if they have another season like last years there will be a fan mass exodus. You can only shtup your fans for so long before they revolt.

[Johnny E]

Welcome to the

[PHILLYQ]

You can kiss baseball in DC goodbye. Frankly, I think both sides needed to be kicked in the butt. Baseball for their arrogance and stubbornness, and the DC Council for playing politics and not doing the basic study beforehand of what the costs involved of building a new stadium. This has been front page news here in DC, and 50/50 split opinion on what's happening. Personally I wanted baseball in the city, but the costs involved are too prohibitive.

From what I read, MLB was looking for a FREE STADIUM! What nerve on their part. "Fork over a billion or so, and we'll play in your city. Of course, any concession or parking revenue is ours to keep." Where will the Expos/Nationals play this year? Or will thye be renamed the 'Nomads' and just wander around to different ballparks around the country?

[PHILLYQ]

What are the Bosox going to do now with Hanley Ramirez, their highly-touted shortstop in the minors? By signing Renteria for 4 years, they almost have to deal the kid.

[Dan Gould]

What are the Bosox going to do now with Hanley Ramirez, their highly-touted shortstop in the minors? By signing Renteria for 4 years, they almost have to deal the kid.

Well, I think the plan was to package him for Tim Hudson, but that went by the boards because I don't think that the A's were gonna deal Hudson to an AL competitor.

What I'm hearing is that while Ramirez is the most valuable prospect they have, they shouldn't jump to make a deal. If they can sign Clement, than Ramirez can remain a bargaining chip for the future-maybe for Ben Sheets at the trading deadline?

OR

Ramirez is such a talent, he might be moved to second base or centerfield. He has tremendous potential, probably the best Red Sox prospect since Nomah or Bagwell, so they need to be careful in what they do.

********************

And how about the Braves? Adding Hudson and Smoltz to the starting rotation and picking up a solid closer, I think the Braves can very possibly defend their division championship yet again. They've really done the best in improving their pitching staff of any team, by far. The question is, will they spend the money to keep Hudson beyond this year? If anyone is worth the four years/56 million Pedro extorted from the Mets, its surely Hudson, who has Pedro numbers and is 29 years old.

*****************************

As far as the Mariners go, who knows if Beltre is a bust? They threw a huge amount of money at someone who's had one decent year. I think its ridiculous what they've spent. And Sexson-good power hitter, lots of K's and two bad shoulder injuries. The Mariners might be very good, or they may be the American League version of the Mets. And who is handling the pitching? It looks like the old lefty has finally hit the wall-who else do they have? I think the Mariners may end up more like the D-Backs or Mets than competing with the Angels.

[Johnny E]

As far as the Mariners go, who knows if Beltre is a bust? They threw a huge amount of money at someone who's had one decent year. I think its ridiculous what they've spent. And Sexson-good power hitter, lots of K's and two bad shoulder injuries. The Mariners might be very good, or they may be the American League version of the Mets. And who is handling the pitching? It looks like the old lefty has finally hit the wall-who else do they have? I think the Mariners may end up more like the D-Backs or Mets than competing with the Angels.

Sexson? Well we’ll see if he re-injures himself. But Beltre? He's only 25! He can only get better. Look at those numbers he posted last year:

48 hr's, 121 RBI, .334 average

Beltre is gonna be a great hitter for the M's for many years to come no doubt in my mind.

Plus Sexson and Beltre are excellent (gold glove caliber) defensive players. Add them to Bret Boone in the infield and I’d say they are one of the best defensive infield in the game.

They do need to add a front line pitcher, but they also have a competent rotation in Pineiro, Moyer, Franklin, Meche, and Villone. They have the all upside rookie Bobby Madritsch as well as Rafael Soriano and Eddie Guardado at the end. Add a solid innings eater up front and a left-handed middle reliever and I'd say the staff is pretty solid.

[BERIGAN]

********************

And how about the Braves? Adding Hudson and Smoltz to the starting rotation and picking up a solid closer, I think the Braves can very possibly defend their division championship yet again. They've really done the best in improving their pitching staff of any team, by far. The question is, will they spend the money to keep Hudson beyond this year? If anyone is worth the four years/56 million Pedro extorted from the Mets, its surely Hudson, who has Pedro numbers and is 29 years old.

*****************************

Well, the Braves also lost Ortiz, Wright and Byrd....Smoltz, to keep his elbow in one piece needed to get back in the rotation, but.....how many players after being a relief pitch for several years went back to being a starter, at his age??? How well is Hudson's hip??? Will he be another one year player for the braves???? Glad we didn't have to give up Marcus Giles, that would have been a big mistake...we also traded Eli Marrero(who hit .320 part time) so with J.D. Drew likely to leave, we don't have a left, or right fielder...Bobby Cox might yet pull another division out of his ass (The braves vent in the Online AJC still has people thinking if the Braves only got rid of Cox, we would get back to the WS! ) but teams don't usually do that well that are forever bargain basement hunting for regulars.....but, thank God, the very old Turner field is getting a new 15 Million dollar scoreboard.

[BERIGAN]

Oh Dan, I think you will be quite glad not to have Pedro anymore....he just seems to be getting by more and more on guile...and the money saved can get someone a lot younger on the hill(Who? Gee, that is a good question, Millwood might be a bit of a head case as well, but at 29, he pitched 141 innings, and struck out 125).....of course, if the Yankees get Randy Johnson, and he is healthy, it is Wild card time again....not that that is a bad place for the Sox!

[BERIGAN]

And Johnny, those are some amazing signings! If Sexton is healthy, that will be a much different team this year. Beltran seems like a much older player(in a good way) than his 25 years.

[Johnny E]

...of course, if the Yankees get Randy Johnson, and he is healthy, it is Wild card time again....not that that is a bad place for the Sox!

That might be true, but I can't seem think that Johnson gonna run out of steam one of these years. Power pitchers usually pitch hard until one day, often quite suddenly, poof! it's gone! What is he, 42? I think it would be hilarious if Johnson ran out of gas pitching for the yanks this year. But I have learned never to count Randy Johnson out...he's areal gamer.

As far as the M's, yeah, they seem like a brand new team! They went from one of the oldest and tired looking teams in baseball to being one of the youngest most promising in one off season. Now if we could just pick up a innings eating starter and a middle reliever we'd be ready to compete for the playoffs again.

[Dan Gould]

Sox sign Clement, and it looks like the Yanks have crept closer to getting the coveted Unit.

I'm pleased to get Clement because I think he's got more upside than Pavano, has been more durable, and cost significantly less. And anyone who's seen Clement's facial hair knows he'll fit right in with the rest of the idiots

Seriously, ESPN had a chart comparing the cumulative stats of Pedro/Lowe vs Wells and Clement, and on ERA, batting average against, and ratio of strikeouts to walks, there's no comparison: Wells and Clement are superior. The only difference is winning percentage, and that's all about run support. Lowe was awful but got more wins than he possibly deserved because of the offense he had. Clement was excellent but lost 13 games because the Cubbies never hit for him.

I think the Sox will be fine this year, just as long as they cross off the last thing on the checklist:

SIGN VARITEK!

[BERIGAN]

a true WTF??????????????????

Sex Industry Funded Campaign Against New Stadium

[GloriousBlues]

a true WTF??????????????????

Sex Industry Funded Campaign Against New Stadium

What's wrong with sex shop owners supporting politcal causes?

All citizens have a right to oppose taxes that that go straight to the pockets of baseball team owners.

[GloriousBlues]

I have mixed feelings about what my Giants have done so far this spring. Their most glaring weakness in 2004 was relief pitching. The 'pen let down the team all year long and to make things worse, on the last weekend of the season they blew a big 9th inning lead while handing the NL West crown to LA.

So what does Brian Sabean do? He goes out and signs the best free agent reliever out there, Armando Benitez. That guy might have been better than Gagne in '04. Great signing.

But SF's other two acquisitions don't look so great: They picked up Omar Vizquel, a light hitting shortstop and Mike Metheny, a guy who is so bad at the plate, if you just read news stories, you'd think his first name was The Light Hitting. I just can't believe they may have found a catcher who will make more outs than AJ Pierzynskit did.

Those two moves don't do anything to help the Giants' offense, which has been a one-man show for several years.

[ghost of miles]

a true WTF??????????????????

Sex Industry Funded Campaign Against New Stadium

What's wrong with sex shop owners supporting politcal causes?

All citizens have a right to oppose taxes that that go straight to the pockets of baseball team owners.

Didn't read the article, but you would think that particular industry would support a new sports team as being good for business in the long run.

[chris olivarez]

Right now it looks like LA GM Paul De Podesta is skirting the line between genius and madness. To be continued.

[BFrank]

I have mixed feelings about what my Giants have done so far this spring. Their most glaring weakness in 2004 was relief pitching. The 'pen let down the team all year long and to make things worse, on the last weekend of the season they blew a big 9th inning lead while handing the NL West crown to LA.

So what does Brian Sabean do? He goes out and signs the best free agent reliever out there, Armando Benitez. That guy might have been better than Gagne in '04. Great signing.

But SF's other two acquisitions don't look so great: They picked up Omar Vizquel, a light hitting shortstop and Mike Metheny, a guy who is so bad at the plate, if you just read news stories, you'd think his first name was The Light Hitting. I just can't believe they may have found a catcher who will make more outs than AJ Pierzynskit did.

Those two moves don't do anything to help the Giants' offense, which has been a one-man show for several years.

I think they were looking for defense in Matheny. Also, I don't think AJ was well liked in the clubhouse. He got off to a bad start with the other players, and was probably never able to recover.

Needless to say......they do need some hitting, though.

[Dan Gould]

As the Dodgers got cold feet and sent Big Unit and Big George into paroxysms of rage, the Sox jumped quickly on one of the most suprising non-tenders of the year, former Astro Wade Miller. He's had two years of injuries but passed his physical so his "frayed" rotator cuff can't be too bad. And when healthy, this guy was awesome with the 'Stros, something like 32-12 his first two full seasons in the bigs.

Like the Matt Mantei signing, this is one of those super-low risk, huge upside deals that Theo is really specializing in.

If my math is right, for the money we were offering Pedro, we now have:

Clement

Wells

Mantei

Miller

With Schilling apparently behind in his rehab, I feel much better having signed this guy, so long as he's healthy. We're really stockpiling the arms, while the Yanks are overpaying for what they've got, still can't get RJ, and still can't unload Kevin Brown. And if they end up with Vasquez, its not like he's going into the season feeling wanted or anything.

BTW, we've cornered the market on "MILL*Rs":

Billy Mueller at third

Kevin Millar at first

and now

Wade Miller in the rotation. At least now we've got someone who spells it normally.