Just want to talk about... Teddy Wilson

[mmilovan]

Well, that came to my mind yesterday, while listened to essential recording of his “Just a Mood” with Red Norvo, Harry James. There are no words to describe highly individual approach from Norvo and James on that mid 1930’s session that extended across both sides of then current record 78 rpm format, but main hero that dominates is Wilson himself. The piece is of course ordinary 12 bar blues, and from the very beginning till closing bars, you can almost forget it is not blues structure but some classy composition. Perhaps for this piece Teddy surely deserves words that describes him entirely: “Bill Evans of the Swing Era”. Saw-tooth alike phrases that originated from Earl Hines were polished into pure diamond, while still they are not diluted into cocktail type music, arpeggios that means only for itself (that was part of many other pianists with jazz or jazzy oriented style), or running-through fire till death, or mechanical rhythmic patterns often connected with boogie-woogie or stride followers.

Wilson’s music is highly concentrated, full with surprises if you can listen to it carefully, no matter if he is main soloist or just accompanist. It is not pure minimalistic Basie approach to listen to, nor it has odd irregularities like Thelonious Monk, that are so magical to analyze and discover, nor it is so self-conscious and self-indulgent as i.e. Oscar Peterson’s music you can kick your *** with (well, at least sometimes it works for me). It is jazz piano in it’s essence and only few names on that instrument has it also (I can think of Bud Powell that has similar inner strength) IMO.

That’s why most people don’t care for Wilson. He is only one historical master, once played behind Billie and in Goodman’s combo (and there people were impressed by Krupa’s extrovert “body language” drum solos, or Hampton’s hot mallets, or Mr. B.G. playing, then with Wilson’s carefully articulated clever piano).

Artie Shaw once said that the whole thing with swing/mainstream jazz is, if it’s good, you almost want to grab instrument and play it alongside with musicians – feeling of freedom and enthusiasm, and filled with positive happy thoughts.

I, myself had that same feeling while listening opening Teddy Wilson solo on “All My Life”, tune Ella Fitzgerald recorded with his small combo back in 1936. - to sit down and try to repeat some of those percussive downward intervals/chords followed by two or three support touches with the left hand, you know.

[Big Al]

Great idea for a thread, Milan!

I was listening to PRES & TEDDY yesterday morning, and couldn't help but be fascinated by Teddy's playing behind Pres on "All of Me." It's as if he's playing a perfectly compatible solo as his accompaniment!!!

I am so glad I was able to scoop up a Teddy Wilson Mosaic as it went OOP.

Edited January 24, 2008 by Big Al

[mmilovan]

His small combo sides for Brunswick during mid 1930s were so popular and had great impact on music as well on jazz.

Discographical research will tell more about all those combo settings, but it occurs to me that Columbia/Legacy has something to do with these... Highly recomendable, despite huge amount of vocal numbers.

Edited December 13, 2004 by mmilovan

[P.D.]

I was listening to PRES & TEDDY yesterday morning, and couldn't help but be fascinated by Teddy's lpaying behind Pres on "All of Me." It's as if he's playing a perfectly compatible solo as his accompaniment!!!

Not wishing to devert attention from Teddy, but if you have the latest Downbeat ( the 70th Aniversary issue..) how does the Ruby Braff article from1957.. sit with your comments above?

[Big Al]

I was listening to PRES & TEDDY yesterday morning, and couldn't help but be fascinated by Teddy's lpaying behind Pres on "All of Me." It's as if he's playing a perfectly compatible solo as his accompaniment!!!

Not wishing to devert attention from Teddy, but if you have the latest Downbeat ( the 70th Aniversary issue..) how does the Ruby Braff article from1957.. sit with your comments above?

I'll have to check that out & get back to ya!

[mmilovan]

Not wishing to devert attention from Teddy, but if you have the latest Downbeat ( the 70th Aniversary issue..) how does the Ruby Braff article from1957.. sit with your comments above?

Don't have that number of Downbeat, so - what's exactly there in that article, if you're please P.D.?

[jazzbo]

I love Teddy Wilson's playing, it's got such an inner strength and a driving calm to it. . . . I need music like that in my life.

[neveronfriday]

I love Teddy Wilson's playing, it's got such an inner strength and a driving calm to it. . . . I need music like that in my life.

Ditto.

[king ubu]

I'm a big fan of the Wilson Mosaic, I had two complete listens so far (and some incompletes, of course), and I think this is one that continues to grow.

Of the thirties recordings I only know the music that is part of the Billie Holiday Columbia box, and very little besides that. Oh, of course the marvellous Goodman trio, too! Love it!

There's one nice trio date with Benny Carter, on the Verve disc "3,4,5", which I remember is compared by the guy who wrote the liners, to the trio date Carter made with Art Tatum. A beautiful date, will have to listen to that one soon again.

[Alexander]

Count me in as a Wilson fan as well. I first became aware of him watching the Ken Burns "Jazz" series when it first aired (I was very uninformed about pre-bop jazz at the time), but I actually *had* heard him without knowing it. I had a couple of early Billie Holiday discs and he was on them. I got the Goodman trio-quartet recordings shortly after I saw the "Jazz" episode and the Mosaic set shortly after that. I've been a big fan ever since.

Love the "Pres and Teddy" album. What always gets me about Wilson is the perfict articulation of his solos. Never too much nor too little. He doesn't try to impress with the flash of his style, but never fails to impress with his impeccable good taste.

[sidewinder]

I'm a big fan of the Wilson Mosaic, I had two complete listens so far (and some incompletes, of course), and I think this is one that continues to grow.

I like this one too. I'm slowly making my way through the vinyl and I'm impressed. Probably the most 'civilised' of all the Mosaics, in my opinion.

[AllenLowe]

One of the most insightful things to read about Teddy Wilson is Dick Katz's notes on the Smithsonian record - Katz studied with Wilson, and one of the most interesting things to me is that Wilson advised Katz to listen to Monk, as a master of rhythm.

[king ubu]

One of the most insightful things to read about Teddy Wilson is Dick Katz's notes on the Smithsonian record - Katz studied with Wilson, and one of the most interesting things to me is that Wilson advised Katz to listen to Monk, as a master of rhythm.

Didn't Katz also write those real nice and very informed notes for the 2CD reissue of all of Columbia's Monk solo sides? A real good writer he is, too (besides being a real good piano player, of course).

ubu

[mmilovan]

One of the most insightful  things to read about Teddy Wilson is Dick Katz's notes on the Smithsonian record - Katz studied with Wilson, and one of the most interesting things to me is that Wilson advised Katz to listen to Monk, as a master of rhythm.

Didn't Katz also write those real nice and very informed notes for the 2CD reissue of all of Columbia's Monk solo sides? A real good writer he is, too (besides being a real good piano player, of course).

ubu

BTW, origin of the above statement about Evans and Teddy is form Katz, also.

It’s interesting how Monk and Wilson respected each other. Wilson told that Monk “invented be-bop” (Wilson: “I know. I was there”). Now, there is another one.

At the other hand, Monk mentioned Wilson as his only influence (besides himself ).

I like Tatum’s words he wanted to play like Teddy.

[mmilovan]

Oh, and cannot wait to hear what was published back in 1957 about Braf and accompaniment (if I understood everything correctly)...

[P.D.]

Oh, and cannot wait to hear what was published back in 1957 about Braff and accompaniment (if I understood everything correctly)...

Sorry for the delay.. tried to scan it but wouldn't post to the board.

Here is the article.. please don't let it stop you buying Downbeat ( that's just to appease them if reproducing this has copyright complications.)

The bold comments are what caused my response.

Braff..Jan 9 1957

"For years it has been my misfortune to be dragged by piano players because I love the instrument and it’s possibilities so. I lose more pianists that way, but it can’t be helped

It seems that playing the piano is too much a job for the average piano player. Most persons started playing piano because it was conveniently at their disposal.. Had they attempted some instrument not connected with the rhythm section, they would have realised that it is no fun to accompany the pianist because he has more control than anyone in the band.

The pianist has two chances to destroy you – with rhythm and with harmony

As a rule he does both.

Even some of the biggest names on piano can’t play behind anyone.

They are constantly soloing

A pianist in a jazz group has to be a doctor, otherwise someone has to get hurt. Look at the things a pianist must have in addition to what the other guys must have.

Every jazz musician has to be a drummer in his playing. Every phrase, if it’s any good, must be rhythmical as well as anything else.. So consciously or otherwise, all players have to drum. Many guys don’t have a beat, but sound good because the guys in the rhythm section are wailing so well.. Conversely some players play so outstandingly well that the untrained ear doesn’t know they are playing ( so well ) in spite of a bad rhythm section.

The pianist must control the orchestra which he has at his fingertips so that it does not interfere with the flow of the bass feeling and so the harmonies he’s playing are helping instead of channeling the soloist. The pianist must consciously be a student of percussion.

Through the years, people have mentioned the great bands of Duke Ellington and Count Basie and others. They have always taken note of the soloists in the band, some of whom weren’t that great.

Many persons who think about Duke, think only of his ability in arranging and composition. Few realise that when the Duke is at the piano, he is drumming behind the soloists the greatest, like Count, but with his individuality still coming through. Duke has a wonderful touch. It’s not noticed as much because playing behind a solo he’s playing in the background, where he’s supposed to be… not in the foreground!

From what I’ve seen or heard, generally speaking, people think of the Basie band of a few years ago as a great band of great soloists. It’s no mistake, but the reason for the nice things they had an opportunity to develop is the guy relatively few know much about.. the Count himself.

It was Basie’s conception that paved the way for the so called modern rhythm sections, which in most cases are way out of control.

One might think there should be a million ways to play the piano behind someone, but I don’t think so. All the great pianists have ended up ( without them getting together and conspiring) with the same things in common about their playing behind a soloist, varied as their styles might have been, or are. The more the soloist would play, the less the pianist would play and the more percussive he’d try to get.

Now pianists play whole note chimes and figures behind you.

What a favour!"

We all are aware that Braff could be something of a curmudgeon but I think there are relevant points here,

Braff and Wilson did play and record together ( on a B.G. record in 1955) and possibly Wilson is not one who contributed to his remarks, however I suspect he would not have liked the " soloing behind the soloist" comments.

Edited December 15, 2004 by P.D.

[neveronfriday]

Thanks for that one!

Interesting.

BTW: I've often posted on this board re Teddy Wilson, so I won't repeat all of it here.

I'm a big (!) fan, have begun a small collection (usually based on reviews or recommendations here) and consider Teddy Wilson to be one of the most essential (and best) piano players to listen to.

I've often heard the criticism (boring, mechanical, monotonous, unimaginative, bla, bla, bla) and I couldn't disagree more. I was lucky enough to have seen him live many times, and still today I remember just about every detail. When he was at Tivoli's "Slukefter" (small jazz club associated with the amusement park in Copenhagen, Denmark) I had the chance to talk to him several times and he was a true gentleman (just like Ed Thigpen who he often played or jammed with when in Scandinavia) - very attentive, even after hours of playing live. Very knowledgable (my God, did he know a lot of jazz greats, anecdotes, etc.). Seeing Teddy Wilson play remains a highlight of my life ... and I've seen some good stuff.

Teddy Wilson's work is a cornerstone of my collection and his recordings are an endless source of enjoyment. A lot of his stuff can entertain just like that, but I think much of it should get a lot more closer attention than it perhaps has gotten in the past on a wider scale. Listening closely and attentively to his recordings can be very rewarding. Impeccable style and technique all around, often surrrounded by astonishing sidemen that Wilson (especially early on in his career) picked wisely. Some later recordings (70s) suffer from some repetition and some sidemen that just deliver basic stuff, but I still enjoy it very much.

Teddy Wilson at his worst is/was still better than most others at their best.

Cheers!

[mmilovan]

I've often heard the criticism (boring, mechanical, monotonous, unimaginative, bla, bla, bla) and I couldn't disagree more.

The same with me. Yeah, right, his music is polished, and has narrower dynamic if I can put it in that way, and minimalistic approach in some points, but... boring... mechanical...

Don't really know - the man was so imaginative while doing his solos than most of the others, of course IMO.

But I think there is a problem - most of the people never listen to Wilson that closely. They often connected him with Goodman trio/quartet, and - that's all.

One of the most interesting point is how well Wilson know the chords and harmonies, and has perfect piano execution. I've listened to "You Go To My Head" from Mosaic set, and still I'm amazed how he pronounced underlaying harmonies at second bar of the song (after the phrase "You Go To My Head"...).

Edited December 15, 2004 by mmilovan

[Big Al]

Maybe Braff was referring to someone like Oscar Peterson? I don’t know, but one thing that separates Wilson from the pack that Braff refers to is the fact that, even if Wilson is soloing beneath the other soloist, he never does so at the expense of the main soloist. Again, I refer to “All of Me” from Prez & Teddy. EVERY note played is a complement to what Lester has just played, and if you really think about how fast on his feet Teddy’s thinking is, you can’t help but marvel that every note is a masterpiece of lightning-quick-thinking and melodic beauty.

[Harold_Z]

Did Ruby Braff and Teddy Wilson ever record together?

While I enjoy both of them immensely and would love to hear them together, I suspect what Ruby really wanted from a pianist was a Count Basie like sparseness.

[P.D.]

Did Ruby Braff and Teddy Wilson ever record together?

While I enjoy both of them immensely and would love to hear them together, I suspect what Ruby really wanted from a pianist was a Count Basie like sparseness.

Braff and Wilson did play and record together ( on a B.G. record in 1955) and possibly Wilson is not one who contributed to his remarks.

Unfortunately not in separate small group set. I think Braff and Wilson might have mde a great duo record a la Mel Powell ( OK trio) or Larkins recordings had they been given the chance.

[mmilovan]

Maybe Braff was referring to someone like Oscar Peterson?

(...)

Again, I refer to “All of Me” from Prez & Teddy. EVERY note played is a complement to what Lester has just played, and if you really think about how fast on his feet Teddy’s thinking is, you can’t help but marvel that every note is a masterpiece of lightning-quick-thinking and melodic beauty.

And how is that entirely different form Oscar Peterson's supporting (sorry Osc, I like you very much, but it was terrible to show all that superb techique behind ill and ruined man, unable to move his fingers) Pres on 1955. Verve session (especially on "One O'clock Jump" title).

Still, Pres blew everybody playing "Talk Of The Town" and "That's All", saddest, tragical, while deepest moments in entirely history of recorded jazz, IMO.

Edited December 16, 2004 by mmilovan

[mmilovan]

Did Ruby Braff and Teddy Wilson ever record together?

While I enjoy both of them immensely and would love to hear them together, I suspect what Ruby really wanted from a pianist was a Count Basie like sparseness.

Yep, I have some marvelous LIVE date (from around 1955. LP says "Storyville club") with Teddy Wilson Benny Goodman, Braff, Paul Quinichette, Milt Hinton and few other players.

It is on some Philips LP, a bit quiet recorded, but two sides run around 60 minutes in length.

This is the music that became part of me through years of very close listening.

Don't know if it was reissued on CD.

Higly, highly recomended listening.

[A Lark Ascending]

Teddy Wilson reaches me too. I'm only a dabbler in pre-1945 jazz but I've loved Wilson since hearing him on those Billie Holiday recordings of the 30s. I have many of the Classics Wilson discs, initially purchased to get the Holiday sides; in the event the Non-H tracks bring just as much joy.

[mmilovan]

Teddy Wilson reaches me too. I'm only a dabbler in pre-1945 jazz but I've loved Wilson since hearing him on those Billie Holiday recordings of the 30s. I have many of the Classics Wilson discs, initially purchased to get the Holiday sides; in the event the Non-H tracks bring just as much joy.

Hearing Wilson behind obscure singers of prewar era (together with first rate instrumentalists) is something I'll never forget! Well known standards, famous musicians, perfect pianist, and... female singers of the day, now long forgotten...

There is one CD of such material (I want more, more, more...), remastered by JRT Davies (the similar tunes can be on Classics discs). Don't remember label in a moment (probably it can be on Hep or similar label), but title of the disc is "Teddy Wilson - Moments Like This - 1937-38".

All that sound like angels to me.

Edited December 23, 2004 by mmilovan