The Great Ray Charles

[king ubu]

Now I just had a first listen to this disc I recently got in a sale (it's fantastic and highly recommended!):

Now track #3 is (or rather should be) "Black Coffee", on which Ray is supposed to play in trio with backing by the great Oscar Pettiford on bass.

Now the original liners, the discography page of the booklet, and the tracklisting of both the CD reissue and the reprinted LP backcover list #3 as "Black Coffee", but actually #3 is not "Black Coffee" but a terrific version of "Ain't Misbehavin'", mentioned only in David Ritz' new liner notes.

A search here for "Back Coffee" did not find anything related to this, thus I thought I start a thread discussing it.

The reissue in question is the very nice Rhino 2004 one, with very good sound, packed in Jewel Case, part of the "Atlantic Jazz Masters" series (which is printed inside the traycard, where you can read it with the jewel case closed).

Anyone has this disc? Is it just mine that has this error? And where is "Ain't Misbehavin'" from? Sounds a lot like Fathead (who is mentioned playing on this tune in Ritz' notes), and could well be from the same dates, BUT it was NOT on this album, originally, right?

thanks for any insightful help or comment!

ubu

[DMP]

Just got this in the mail yesterday - same as yours, no "Black Coffee!" Ha! Nice package, too, better than the original, which I also have. I'll check that one out, but, as I recall, it does have the correct songs.

[DMP]

I looked at my earlier issue - Atlantic 81731-2 (1987) - and it has 14 tracks (compared to the newer version with only 8), including "Black Coffee" AND "Ain't Misbehavin'." Unfortunately, I don't have the cover (someone broke into my car this summer and made off with what they thought were CD's - but they only got the jewel boxes, the actual CD's were in the changer) (hope those kids are enjoying the notes to Red Garland's "Rediscovered Masters"), but, as I recall, the discographical information was confusing and didn't make complete sense. Now I'm even MORE confused. Is there a good Charles discography somewhere? I'm not much help here.

[paul secor]

And where is "Ain't Misbehavin'" from? Sounds a lot like Fathead (who is mentioned playing on this tune in Ritz' notes), and could well be from the same dates, BUT it was NOT on this album, originally, right?

thanks for any insightful help or comment!

ubu

"Ain't Misbehavin'" is from The Genius After Hours. The saxophonist is Fathead Newman.

[king ubu]

Glad to see I'm not the only one who's confused! This sucks!

I mean, these new reissues are certainly done very well, compared to some of the crappy digipack editions Atlantic/Warner released in recent years, but then I do want additional tracks, and I do want at least all that was on the original CD release.

Even stranger is that the Rhino website has not listed this disc at all, though it clearly says it was produced by Rhino!

Paul, thanks - at least one thing is clear. So I wait for the new reissue of "After Hours" and hope that one will include "Black Coffee" where "Ain't Misbehavin'" should've been!?!

[mikeweil]

The Atlantic "Jazz" recordings of Ray Charles were a mess on the LPs - not as big a mess as the reissues of some stuff from the 78 era, but still ... That's why I will gladly stick to my older CDs of the Ray Charles / Milt Jackson collaborations and The Great Ray Charles, as they completed sessions.

April 30, 1956

Ray Charles (piano) Oscar Pettiford (bass) Joe Harris (drums)

A-1965 Dawn Ray - Atlantic 1369

A-1966 The man I love - Atlantic 1369

A-1967 Music! Music! Music! - Atlantic 1369

A-1968 Black Coffee - Atlantic 1259

all titles on Atlantic 7 81731-2

November 20, 1956

Ray Charles (piano) Roosevelt Sheffield (bass) William Peeples (drums)

Joseph Bridgewater & John Hunt (trumpet) David Fathead Newman (alto & tenor sax) Emmett Dennis (baritone sax)

A-2223 The Ray - Atlantic 1259

A-2224 I surrender dear - Atlantic 1259

A-2225 Hornful soul - Atlantic 1369

A-2226 Ain't misbehavin' - Atlantic 1369

A-2227A Joy Ride - Atlantic 1259

A-2228A Sweet sixteen bars (trio only) - Atlantic 1259

all titles on Atlantic 7 81731-2

November 26, 1956

same personnel

A-2227 Doodlin' - Atlantic 1259

A-2228 There's no you - Atlantic 1259

A-2229 Undecided - Atlantic 1259

A-2230 My melancholy baby - Atlantic 1259

All titles on Atlantic 7 81731-2

September 12, 1957

Ray Charles (piano, electric piano, alto sax) Milt Jackson (vibes, piano, guitar) Billy Mitchell (tenor sax) Skeeter Best (guitar) Oscar Pettiford (bass) Connie Kay (drums)

A-2726 How long blues - Atlantic 1279

A-2727 Cosmic Ray - Atlantic 1279

A-2728 Charlesville (trio only) - Atlantic 1369

A-2729 The Genius After Hours (trio only) - Atlantic 1369

A-2730 Bags of Blues - Atlantic 1360

A-2731 If I should lose you - unissued, lost

A-2732 'Deed I do - Atlantic 1279 (stereo issue only)

A-2733 Blue Funk - Atlantic 1279

A-2734 Soul Brothers - Atlantic 1279

A-2735 Bags' Guitar Blues - Atlantic 1279 (mono issue only)

All issued titles on Atlantic 7 81951-2

April 10, 1958

Ray Charles (piano, electric piano, alto sax) Milt Jackson (vibes, piano) Kenny Burrell (guitar) Percy Heath (bass) Arthur Taylor (drums)

A-3041 I'm just a lucky so and so - unissued, lost

A-3042 Soul Meeting - Atlantic 1360

A-3043 Hallelujha I love her so - Atlantic 1360

A-3044 Blue Genius - Atlantic 1360

A-3045 X-Ray Blues - Atlantic 1360

A-3046 Love on my mind - Atlantic 1360

All issued titles on Atlantic 7 81951-2

Atlantic 1259 The Great Ray Charles

Atlantic 1279 Soul Brothers

Atlantic 1360 Soul Meeting

Atlantic 1369 The Genius After Hours

It seems they messed this up while preparing the new master.

Atlantic 1369 basically was a compilation of session leftovers after Charles had signed with ABC. Too bad they didn't include the two unissued tracks, which were obviously destroyed by the fire in the Atlantic tape vaults - they would not have hesitated to include them in the CD reissues in case they still exited:

Atlantic 7 81731-2 includes the complete first three sessions

Atlantic 7 81951-2 includes all the issued Charles/Jackson titles

One more case where straight reissues of LP issues are nonsense.

Edited December 7, 2004 by mikeweil

[king ubu]

Thanks Mike! But now, what to do?

The Charles/Bags is the old 2CD set, in a big old double-size jewel case, right? I could get that here. What else do I need? Can you give me the album/CD titles, please?

I'm only just getting into Charles (believe it or not)!

[mikeweil]

Yes, the Charles/Jackson comes in a double box. The two CDs I mentioned have it all, except for the R&B stuff which is on that 3 CD box "The Birth of Soul" - although that material would have easily fitted on to just two CDs!

Now will they correct it when doing a reissue of "The Genius after hours"? I doubt this! Look for a used copy of the older CD, or .....

The pre-Atlantic stuff (downbeat & Swingtime) was collected in a fine 2 CD box on Fresh Sounds' sublabel Ebony, "The Birth of a Legend" - avoid any other reissue - this is the only one that has them complete, unedited and without overdubs.

[king ubu]

Yes, the Charles/Jackson comes in a double box. The two CDs I mentioned have it all, except for the R&B stuff which is on that 3 CD box "The Birth of Soul" - although that material would have easily fitted on to just two CDs!

Now will they correct it when doing a reissue of "The Genius after hours"? I doubt this! Look for a used copy of the older CD, or .....

would be very cool in this case!

The pre-Atlantic stuff (downbeat & Swingtime) was collected in a fine 2 CD box on Fresh Sounds' sublabel Ebony, "The Birth of a Legend" - avoid any other reissue - this is the only one that has them complete, unedited and without overdubs.

Is there the -option here, as well? How are these?

And is the "Birth of Soul" box that "complete" collection of his R&B recordings, or is that yet something else?

[clandy44]

Your Highness, are you listening to Ray because you saw the movie or just because? If you have not seen it, do see the movie-the music is well worth the price of admission and will totally turn you on to Ray. Plus, there is probably an Oscar winning performance in there.

[king ubu]

Your Highness, are you listening to Ray because you saw the movie or just because? If you have not seen it, do see the movie-the music is well worth the price of admission and will totally turn you on to Ray. Plus, there is probably an Oscar winning performance in there.

Just listening because, haven't seen the movie, but when he died, I recorded a 93 Las Vegas performance and a 2000 (or later) swiss performance off TV. Good stuff.

Then a shop here has an Atlantic/Rhino etc sale, and I picked an Otis Redding, a Booker T, and said Ray Charles discs... and I really really enjoy the Charles!

I will look for the DVD, it seems! European edition available? Guess I need to read that thread, right?

[DMP]

This new edition of "The Great..." is made in the EU, for what it's worth. (You really have to hunt to find that information on the packaging.) So, my earlier CD version of the album - the one with 14 tracks - wasn't a duplicate of the original album. (It added "Genius After Hours"). I better hold on to it. (You'd think that the Charles Atlantic jazz material would deserve a proper reissue. And it would obviously have some appeal beyond the usual jazz audience.)

By the way - this new concert DVD of a live Charles performance... Tina Brooks??

Edited December 6, 2004 by DMP

[mikeweil]

And is the "Birth of Soul" box that "complete" collection of his R&B recordings, or is that yet something else?

It is!!!

[mikeweil]

So, my earlier CD version of the album - the one with 14 tracks - wasn't a duplicate of the original album. (It added "Genius After Hours").

... except for the two trio tracks from the first Milt jackson session, which were added as bonus tracks to the Charles Jackson 2-CD box.

[king ubu]

And is the "Birth of Soul" box that "complete" collection of his R&B recordings, or is that yet something else?

It is!!!

And your triple exlamation marks make me believe it is worth getting, right?

[Harold_Z]

By the way - this new concert DVD of a live Charles performance... Tina Brooks??

Yeah...he trades choruses and then fours with Fathead on an up blues. Just get the video..this is one nobody should miss......because the total Ray Charles- Fathead - Margie Hendrix - GREAT tunes nexus shouldn't be missed.

[Harold_Z]

Question re the RC Atlantic jazz and live material that didn't appear on the 3 cd set - I have all the original lps. Am I missing anything that later came out on cd?

[mikeweil]

The pre-Atlantic stuff (downbeat & Swingtime) was collected in a fine 2 CD box on Fresh Sounds' sublabel Ebony, "The Birth of a Legend" - avoid any other reissue - this is the only one that has them complete, unedited and without overdubs.

Is there the -option here, as well? How are these?

I would advise a purchase as this comes in a CD-sized cardboard box with a nice thick booklet with lots of photos and elaborate commentary - it's not very expensive and worth the money. One of the nicest reissue jobs Jordi Pujol ever did! These early recordings were mistreated with overdubbed strings and/or drums, vocal choirs, spliced and edited to turn vocals into instrumentals or vice versa ... Pujol was the first to collect them all and reissue them the way Charles had recorded them.

Stylistically they show how great an influence the trios of Nat King Cole and Charles Brown were on Ray Charles: take a mixture of them and a few dashes of Charles' later Atlantic R & B, and you get an impression. Of course the sound is inferior to that of the Atlantic sides - all had to be dubbed from 78's. Most of them are trios with guitar and bass, but the rhythm gets hotter with each track. Lots of blues - l listened to them again and they seem to be somewhat underrated - I never see them discussed. Of course Ray still had to forge his typical style, but they are a liitle above average when compared to contemporary recordings.

link

Edited December 12, 2004 by mikeweil

[mikeweil]

Question re the RC Atlantic jazz and live material that didn't appear on the 3 cd set - I have all the original lps. Am I missing anything that later came out on cd?

Only one track from one of the live recordings.

[king ubu]

Sounds good, Mike! Now what about the 3CD set? Worth, too?

[mikeweil]

What do you expect me to say? These are absolutely essential classics, they are all there, in reocrding order, with a nice booklet, in excellent sound .... the only thing that bugs me is that they could have packed it all on just two CDs.

I'd say if you can get it at a good price ...

Amazon.de still has the older CD of The Great Ray Charles. Used copies too.

Same for the box set: Amazon offers.

[Jerry]

The DVD with Tina Brooks, is that "O Genio - Live in Brazil 1963"?

[Harold_Z]

The DVD with Tina Brooks, is that "O Genio - Live in Brazil 1963"?

Yes.

[mjzee]

I owned both of the original LP's (The Great Ray Charles and The Genius After Hours). The same version of Ain't Misbehavin' appeared on both LP's; on one, it was called Black Coffee, but, I mean, how can you not tell Ain't Misbehavin'? So it was a glitch on Atlantic's part.

This is wonderful music, by the way; don't miss it.

[sheldonm]

My CD actually has Black Coffee as track number 4!