Joe Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 (edited) Apologies if I missed a Don Friedman recommendation earlier in this thread, but I do happen to think his entire Riverside / Prestige output is worth owning: If asked to be very selective, I would single out CIRCLE WALTZ and METAMORPHOSIS in this group. Though I would hate to be without any of them, especially the standards on DREAMS AND EXPLORATIONS. Edited December 17, 2004 by Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 METAMORPHOSIS is some heavy shit. Atilla Zollar, Richard Davis, & Joe Chambers on a nicely probing semi-free/semi-strutured date. Coulda been on Blue Note. SHOULD have been on Blue Note, given the main emphasis of Prestige at that time, which was not this kind of music... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 METAMORPHOSIS is some heavy shit. Atilla Zollar, Richard Davis, & Joe Chambers on a nicely probing semi-free/semi-strutured date. Coulda been on Blue Note. SHOULD have been on Blue Note, given the main emphasis of Prestige at that time, which was not this kind of music... I've always wondered what the "back story" on METAMORPHOSIS was. I believe that this group was, with the exception of Zoller, a studio creation. And, IIRC, Giuffre trio at this time consisted of Jimmy, Friedman, and bassist Barre Phillips, who appears on Zoller's THE HORIZON BEYOND (superb date, BTW). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesp Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Off Topic for OJC's but relevant to Don Friedman, any opinions on two recent Friedman trio recordings on the Japanese Eighty-eights label: Waltz For Debbie Timeless ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 And, IIRC, Giuffre trio at this time consisted of Jimmy, Friedman, and bassist Barre Phillips ... ... and then the trio was transformed to Giuffre, Richard Davis, and Joe Chambers. Curious, and interesting, connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 This superior date may not be on everybody's radar screen. That's funny you should show this one, as I had Mel sign a copy of this for me one day and he said he wished it hadn't been released! Mark, did he say why? No, but I'm sure I'll run into him in the near future and will ask. Mark This album was a rehearsal session released without Rhyne's consent, and he was not aware he was to be the leader of the date. The idea for this came about when Gene Harris dropped in at the studio when the Wes Montgomery Trio cut its first trio LP, and they showed spontaneous empathy in some impromptu organ/piano duos. Keepnews probably organized ( ) this "jam session" - that's what it is. I'm a big fan of Rhyne, but this is not a superior album, but very hard to find until the OJC reissue. It's extremely rare for me to regret an OJC purchase, and this was one I didn't keep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 I've always wondered what the "back story" on METAMORPHOSIS was. I believe that this group was, with the exception of Zoller, a studio creation. Don Friedman and Attila Zoller were joined in Herbie Mann's group for a few months - that band was recorded at Newprt in July 1963 and in the studio, January to April, 1964. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 METAMORPHOSIS is some heavy shit. Atilla Zollar, Richard Davis, & Joe Chambers on a nicely probing semi-free/semi-strutured date. Coulda been on Blue Note. SHOULD have been on Blue Note, given the main emphasis of Prestige at that time, which was not this kind of music... Somehow I don't like the undertones of this sentence:Coulda been on Blue Note. SHOULD have been on Blue Note .... . Maybe it's just me, but I always felt the achievements of labels like Riverside, Prestige, or Atlantic are underestimated when compared to Blue Note. I know the arguments pro Blue Note, but still ... Prestige probably would have or has recorded more sessions like this, but they needed money to survive. They rather deserve the credit for recording this in spite of being slightly beneath the focus of their repertoire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 (edited) I should add: Only now that some see a threat to that enormous catalog, the eyes of many a jazz fan pop open and see what they have missed due to the Blue Note bias. OTOH - if so many of you start buying these CDs all of a sudden, the increased sales could help to keep them in print. Edited December 18, 2004 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 I should add: Only now that some see a threat to that enormous catalog, the eyes of many a jazz fan pop open and see what they have missed to to the Blue Note bias. I'm sure that's true to an extent, but I think a lot of the above discussion as it relates to scurrying to pick up potentially threatened titles is simply the result of never having been able to afford to buy (or perceive that we'd have time to listen to?) all that we've wanted from that immense catalog. I know that's the case for me. I was buying Fantasy product in equal quantity to BN all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 I find it hard to believe that people would have underestimated what's in the Fantasy catalogue. There is incredible variety, more so in some ways than what's in the BN catalogue. Like Jim, I've always been buying the Prestige, Riversides, etc. and always tried to make sure to pick up the new ones that interested me. I think there has been a bias, however, towards BN, that the original sessions weren't as tight as a BN production (which I believe Chris A. has dispelled) or that the masterings on thecd reissues weren't that good or just not as good as BN. Maybe so, but that never stopped me on what I thought was great music. This thread has been beneficial in that it's pointed out some gems from the catalogue that I might have other missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Have been diggin' GUITAR GROOVE (Rene Thomas) ever since it arrived the other day...that Fantasy/OJC catalog is DEEP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 (edited) And, IIRC, Giuffre trio at this time consisted of Jimmy, Friedman, and bassist Barre Phillips ... ... and then the trio was transformed to Giuffre, Richard Davis, and Joe Chambers. Curious, and interesting, connection. Really? I never knew that. Wonder what they sounded like: Giuffre and Joe Chambers... the mind fairly boggles (in a good way). BTW, the producer listed for METAMORPHOSIS is Cal Lampley. Edited December 18, 2004 by Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alankin Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Off Topic for OJC's but relevant to Don Friedman, any opinions on two recent Friedman trio recordings on the Japanese Eighty-eights label: Waltz For Debbie Timeless ? Two of Don Friedman's 88's have been release in the U.S. on 441 Records. Here are some short reviews of Waltz For Debby and My Favorite Things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 If OJCs go away, the Ernie Henry albums on Riverside will become very hard to get. All three 'Presenting Ernie Henry', 'Seven Standards And a Blues' and 'Last Chorus' should be secured now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 And, IIRC, Giuffre trio at this time consisted of Jimmy, Friedman, and bassist Barre Phillips ... ... and then the trio was transformed to Giuffre, Richard Davis, and Joe Chambers. Curious, and interesting, connection. Really? I never knew that. Wonder what they sounded like: Giuffre and Joe Chambers... the mind fairly boggles (in a good way). From what I've read (an Art Lange article, I believe, as well as a blurb by Manfred Eicher somewhere), that was Giuffre's last trio configuration before his semi-"retirement" into teaching. The trio (Giuffre, Davis, and Chambers) performed around 1965, I think — and, Giuffre returned to the tenor as his "main" horn, while the trio itself explored more conventional blues. I've also heard/read that there was some compositional cross-pollination of sorts between Giuffre and Chambers at this time. Too bad, at least to my knowledge, that no recordings exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejp626 Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Any thoughts on the following: Art Taylor - Taylor's Wailers Art Taylor - Taylor's Tenors Charlie Rouse - Takin' Care of Business I have a kind of funny/annoying story about the Taylors. Quite a while back, I picked up Taylor's Hard Cookin' on LP, which has the contents of the two Taylor CDs mentioned above. It turns out that I have sides 1 & 2 twice, but one time it is mislabeled as sides 3 & 4. So I only have one set really. To make matters worse, this was the side that is on Wailers, which I own. Grrr. I better order Tenors now, and probably the Rouse. I guess if someone wants a mislabeled LP of this set, I could send it their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted December 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Eric, I had an original blue label Prestige of the Taylor 2fer and it somehow got trashed. I bought a Fantasy repressing and had the same problem you mentioned. Get the 2 Taylors. I do not have a good recollection of the Rouse. I just listened to the K2 Dolphy at the Five Spot vol 1. It sounds fine but I'm really bummed by the cover repro. Why don't they get these things right? The colors are wrong and the photo repro sucks. Maybe we should have a thread about bad covers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Another recommendation for Taylor's Tenors. Rouse and Foster are in top form and the whole band is cooking - good tunes, including a fine arrangement of Jackie's "Fidel". As long as I'm here, I'll add a few more personal favorites to the listings: Taft Jordan: Mood Indigo - Joe recommended this to me on the BN Board a few years back when I was looking for Hilton Jefferson recordings. I picked it up, found some good Hilton Jefferson, and also found Taft Jordan. I've enjoyed this one since then. Bill Harris and Friends Al Casey: Buck Jumpin' Bill Evans: On Green Dolphin Street - I'm not a big Bill Evans fan, but I like this one. Philly Joe brought out something else in his playing. John Fahey - any of the Takomas (tho I'm not familiar with The Great San Bernadino Birthday Party or the Takoma he shares with Kottke and Lang). All the others are more than worth listening to. Mabel John: Stay out of the Kitchen. Willie John's sister, and a fine funky singer (and songwriter). Johnnie Taylor: Raw Blues - His best. Rufus Thomas: Can't Get Away from that Dog. Very fine Rufus, and worth it just for Steve Cropper's guitar on "Cherry Red". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 In case these weren't mentioned... and just to be on the safe side (if you don't already have these)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAL Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 What's the opinion on these Jazz At The Philharmonic titles? Which one to start with? ..plus a few more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 (edited) METAMORPHOSIS as some pointed out a few posts back, a really excellent one...Zoller is quite the guitarist. Totally agree with Jim about the Blue Note comment, just the type of "inside/out" music they were recording heavily around that time and Chambers' presence is another push in that direction. On another tack: I found this one used yesterday and was blown away at how good it was (I was expecting solid, and got GREAT): So since this is (believe it or not) my first exposure to Counce's Quintet, how does this one rank relative to the other OJC CDs available? Hard to believe any of them could be sharper... Edited December 20, 2004 by DrJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted December 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 I actually think Counce's Landslide and More Bounce (aka Counceltation) are even better. You should get all 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Good news Chuck, thanks, will definitely track 'em all down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 Good news Chuck, thanks, will definitely track 'em all down. You are in for a treat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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