John Carisi

[Late]

All I really know about Carisi is that he composed "Israel." Here's Yanow's bio:

Johnny Carisi is destined to be chiefly remembered for composing "Israel," a complex blues that was recorded by Miles Davis' Birth Of The Cool nonet. Otherwise his career was primarily spent in obscurity. Carisi, who was mostly self-taught on trumpet, played early on with little-known groups although he had a stint in 1943 with Glenn Miller's Army Air Force Band. Starting in the mid-40's, Carisi's writing was sophisticated and advanced enough for him to contribute arrangements to the books of Ray McKinley, Charlie Barnet and Claude Thornhill. Never a major soloist, Carisi played trumpet with Claude Thornhill's Orchestra a bit during 1949-50. Although he worked fairly steadily as a writer, Johnny Carisi recorded only a few albums under his own name. He had an opportunity to remake "Israel" in 1956 for a Bluebird set not released until the CD era, and he utilized a "Guitar Choir" in an unusual reworking of the music from Showboat (playing trumpet on "Nobody Else But Me"). In 1961, Carisi shared an Impulse Lp (Into The Hot) with Cecil Taylor, and in 1968 he wrote the arrangements for trumpeter Marvin Stamm's Machinations album. Otherwise, Johnny Carisi wrote for the studios, was involved part-time with classical music, and was a music educator.

Can anyone here add a little more? Is that Bluebird disc still around anywhere?

[ghost of miles]

All I really know about Carisi is that he composed "Israel." Here's Yanow's bio:

Johnny Carisi is destined to be chiefly remembered for composing "Israel," a complex blues that was recorded by Miles Davis' Birth Of The Cool nonet. Otherwise his career was primarily spent in obscurity. Carisi, who was mostly self-taught on trumpet, played early on with little-known groups although he had a stint in 1943 with Glenn Miller's Army Air Force Band. Starting in the mid-40's, Carisi's writing was sophisticated and advanced enough for him to contribute arrangements to the books of Ray McKinley, Charlie Barnet and Claude Thornhill. Never a major soloist, Carisi played trumpet with Claude Thornhill's Orchestra a bit during 1949-50. Although he worked fairly steadily as a writer, Johnny Carisi recorded only a few albums under his own name. He had an opportunity to remake "Israel" in 1956 for a Bluebird set not released until the CD era, and he utilized a "Guitar Choir" in an unusual reworking of the music from Showboat (playing trumpet on "Nobody Else But Me"). In 1961, Carisi shared an Impulse Lp (Into The Hot) with Cecil Taylor, and in 1968 he wrote the arrangements for trumpeter Marvin Stamm's Machinations album. Otherwise, Johnny Carisi wrote for the studios, was involved part-time with classical music, and was a music educator.

Can anyone here add a little more? Is that Bluebird disc still around anywhere?

Late,

It's on an OOP cd called THE ARRANGERS. I'm featuring it as part of my Night Lights program tonight if you want to hear some of the material:

NightLightsCarisi

You can even listen to it right now--it's already archived. The Bluebird-released session takes up the first half of the program, and then it switches to Mingus' Savoy LP.

Edited November 27, 2004 by ghost of miles

[ghost of miles]

I'd really like to find that version of SHOWBOAT--hoping to do another program on Carisi down the line that would include that and the original INTO THE HOT material, which Joe Milazzo hipped me to a year or two back.

Carisi was also the composer of "Springsville," recorded for that 1956 RCA session a year before Miles & Gil Evans did it for MILES AHEAD.

Edited November 27, 2004 by ghost of miles

[Late]

Thanks David! I skipped right over that thread — but shouldn't have! I'm listening to your broadcast right now. Great stuff, and I'll be listening to Night Lights more often ...

A big for Night Lights Archives.

[Chuck Nessa]

I used to have this interesting lp with Carisi arrangements.

-All about Urbie Green and his big band- : Urbie Green and his Orchestra : John Carisi (tp,arr) Nick Travis, Joe Wilder (tp) Urbie Green, Jack Satterfield, Chauncey Welsh (tb) Bill Barber (tu) Hal McKusick, Ray Beckenstein (as) Al Cohn (ts) Sol Schlinger (bar) Dave McKenna (p) Jack Lesberg (b) Osie Johnson (d)

New York, July 31, 1956

Sleep (jc arr) ABC-Para ABC137

Soft winds (jc arr) -

With the wind and the rain in your hair (jc arr) -

Jack Green (tb) replaces Satterfield, rest same

New York, August 5, 1956

Home (jc arr) ABC-Para ABC137

I ain't got nobody (jc arr) -

Little John (jc arr) -

Stella by starlight (jc arr) -

Doc Severinsen, Phil Sunkel (tp) John Carisi (tp,arr) Urbie Green, Lou McGarity, Rex Peer (tb) Bill Barber(tu) Ray Beckenstein, Hal McKusick (as) A1 Cohn (ts) Danny Bank (bar) Dave McKenna (p) Vinnie Burke (b) Osie Johnson (d)

New York, August 23, 1956

Cherokee (jc arr) ABC-Para ABC137

Plain Bill from Bluesville (jc arr) -

Springsville (jc arr) -

'Round midnight (ac arr) -

While that record is hard to find, you should locate the following session for the absolutely gonzo Carisi piece called Lestorian Mode:

Brew Moore All Stars : Jerry Lloyd Hurwitz (tp) Kai Winding (tb) Brew Moore (ts) Gerry Mulligan (bar) George Wallington (p) Curly Russell (b) Roy Haynes (d)

New York, May 20, 1949

S36134-1 The mud bug (alt take) Savoy SJL2236

S36134-6 The mud bug Savoy 968, MG9028, XP8067, MG12105, SJL2236

S36135-1 Gold rush (alt take) Savoy SJL2236

S36135-5 Gold rush Savoy 968, XP8067, MG12105, SJL2236,

S36136-4 Lestorian mode (alt take) Savoy SJL2236

S36136-5 Lestorian mode 953, XP8067, MG9028, MG12105,SJL2236

S36137-2 Kai's kid Savoy 953, XP8067, MG9028, MG21105,SJL2236

S36137-5 Kai's kid (alt take) Savoy SJL2236

Note : Savoy MG12105 = Realm (E)RM113 entitled "Lestorian mode", XP8067 as "Brew Moore Volume 2" and

SJL2236 as "Brothers and other mothers Vol. 2".

[garthsj]

I used to own that "Showboat" LP with the guitar choir ... it was part of my now departed collection (try Euclid Records in St. Louis .. they purchased all 8,000 of my albums, and they still have many of them in stock) .. it featured Bob Brookmeyer on some cuts, but, sad to say, was not a "breakthrough" album as I would have expected. It still appears on vinyl auctions lists from time to time.

Garth,

Houston.

Edited November 28, 2004 by garthsj

[AllenLowe]

I got to know Carisi a little bit in the last ten years of his life - I was mystified why he wasn't doing more composing/arranging; he was making his living playing in society bands and seemed pretty settled. I think it's a great loss to jazz that he was given so few commissions, though I do recall him telling me he did something for Max Roach's daughter's (or was it Max's?) group. He was, maybe not surprisingly, very hostile to the post-1960s avant garde and did not really feel that comfortable in the contemporary scene. Israel was an important early composition, showing the possiblities of modality when few others were exploring this. People on the scene (like Gil Evans, Miles, Bill Evans, Gunther Schuller, etc) recognized his importance, but few others did.

[Larry Kart]

I have a not-in-great-shape copy of the "Showboat" LP. It's very commercial in intent -- a bit along the lines of Enoch Light's Command label ping-pong stereo stuff -- and in the liner notes Teo Macero says "We hope you will find the sounds in this album pleasing, modern -- but not too modern!" etc. Also, Macero explains that the project was, from our point of view, more less screwed up by him, or by others at Columbia. Barry Galbraith had a multiple-guitar rehersal band and asked Carisi for some arrangements. Carisi came up with a five-guitar setting of "Israel," liked what he heard when he heard Galbraith and friends play it and approached Columbia with the idea of doing an album of originals with that instrumentation, plus horn soloists and rhythm. Columbia (perhaps that was Macero) said "OK, but lets forget about the originals and use the music from 'Show Boat.'" That said, the album has its moments -- a tasty Carisi theme statement and solo on "Nobody Else But Me" and a track or two where Carisi has written out Lester Young-ish "solos" for the guitar choir, which they play with considerable elan (in addition to Galbraith, the "choir" includes Jimmy Raney).

[Chuck Nessa]

Late in his career I tried to do a couple of Carisi projects but they came to naught.

Not his fault, just the idiots I was working with. Carisi didn't know about my attempts.

Edited November 28, 2004 by Chuck Nessa

[brownie]

I listened a while back to a Japanese vinyl copy of 'All About Urbie Green and his Big Band'. Some of my favorite musicians (Joe Wilder, Hal McKusick, Al Cohn, Dave McKenna among others) are featured.

Thought the album was a bit on the easy-listening side. Seems that at that time Urbie Green was trying to form a big band that would play jazz-oriented dance music and was talking with Willard Alexander about it.

Carisi probably had to work within pretty severe limitations for that album. Only part of the LP is really interesting ('Little John' and 'Springville' are among those items).

John Carisi solos on trumpet on a couple of tracks, including a pretty straight solo on 'Stella by Starlight'.

[JSngry]

I bought that Stamm album on the cheap a few weeks ago, and it's pretty wack.

[Brad]

Late, thanks for giving the link to the archives. No idea they existed. Yes, a big thumbs up for the Archives.

[Late]

Late, thanks for giving the link to the archives. No idea they existed. Yes, a big thumbs up for the Archives.

Dig. But thanks even more to David. Listened to the Rivers/Davis broadcast this morning.

[Late]

While that record is hard to find, you should locate the following session for the absolutely gonzo Carisi piece called Lestorian Mode:

Brew Moore All Stars: Jerry Lloyd Hurwitz (tp) Kai Winding (tb) Brew Moore (ts) Gerry Mulligan (bar) George Wallington (p) Curly Russell (b) Roy Haynes (d) — New York, May 20, 1949

S36134-1 The mud bug (alt take) Savoy SJL2236

S36134-6 The mud bug Savoy 968, MG9028, XP8067, MG12105, SJL2236

S36135-1 Gold rush (alt take) Savoy SJL2236

S36135-5 Gold rush Savoy 968, XP8067, MG12105, SJL2236,

S36136-4 Lestorian mode (alt take) Savoy SJL2236

S36136-5 Lestorian mode 953, XP8067, MG9028, MG12105,SJL2236

S36137-2 Kai's kid Savoy 953, XP8067, MG9028, MG21105,SJL2236

S36137-5 Kai's kid (alt take) Savoy SJL2236

Note: Savoy MG12105 = Realm (E)RM113 entitled "Lestorian Mode," XP8067 as "Brew Moore Volume 2," and SJL2236 as "Brothers and Other Mothers Vol. 2."

I'm guessing this has never made it to compact disc. Would like to hear it.

[brownie]

Laton, you can get 'Lestorian Mood' on this rather well done double CD from England:

It's available from the regular music providers!

The reissue includes the master takes from that All Stars session.

[Chas]

For those interested in what Mr. Carisi looked like there is this shot that appeared on the back of Urbie Green's ABC-Paramount record All About Urbie Green ( a pic not included in the Fresh Sound CD reissue ) :

Anyone have any others ?

[Late]

Thanks for the tip, Guy! I've seen that disc, but didn't really take notice of its contents. It will go down on the list.

[Big Wheel]

Does anyone know the story behind the title to Carisi's "Israel"? I was at the SF Contemporary Jewish Museum today and they included the tune as part ofthis exhibit, claiming that the tune was written to pay tribute to the new Jewish state. If the tune was written around 1948, obviously that would be timely....but I am dubious. As far as I know Carisi was not himself Jewish, and there are any number of Israels he could have been referring to.

[Clunky]

Sorry I can't shed any light on Israel but currently spinning "The New Jazz Sound of Showboat", Larry's assessment is on the money a somewhat commercial outing with some fine Brookmeyer, the Guitar Choir is actually pretty muted so it doesn't sound too lush.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Clunky

[mikeweil]

As far as I know Carisi was not himself Jewish, and there are any number of Israels he could have been referring to.

Most likely candidate would be his teacher Stefan Wolpe, a Jewish immigrant from Berlin.

[AllenLowe]

I did a long intereview with Carisi years ago - if I can find the transcript, it would be interesting to see if I asked him about this -

[Larry Kart]

Does anyone know the story behind the title to Carisi's "Israel"? I was at the SF Contemporary Jewish Museum today and they included the tune as part ofthis exhibit, claiming that the tune was written to pay tribute to the new Jewish state. If the tune was written around 1948, obviously that would be timely....but I am dubious. As far as I know Carisi was not himself Jewish, and there are any number of Israels he could have been referring to.

Seem quite logical to me -- why are you dubious? You didn't have to be Jewish to take notice (it was certainly all over the news) and to respond positively to the founding of state of Israel. Also, Carisi's teacher Wolpe had lived in Palestine in the 1930s and written many pieces there that made use of modal procedures, as "Israel" does (Wolpe having been inspired by modal strains in Jewish and Palestinian music).

[thedwork]

Does anyone know the story behind the title to Carisi's "Israel"? I was at the SF Contemporary Jewish Museum today and they included the tune as part ofthis exhibit, claiming that the tune was written to pay tribute to the new Jewish state. If the tune was written around 1948, obviously that would be timely....but I am dubious. As far as I know Carisi was not himself Jewish, and there are any number of Israels he could have been referring to.

Seem quite logical to me -- why are you dubious? You didn't have to be Jewish to take notice (it was certainly all over the news) and to respond positively to the founding of state of Israel. Also, Carisi's teacher Wolpe had lived in Palestine in the 1930s and written many pieces there that made use of modal procedures, as "Israel" does (Wolpe having been inspired by modal strains in Jewish and Palestinian music).

when i was in school we studied "Angkor Wat." amazing piece of music and Carisi was an amazing composer. and i wasn't aware that "Springsville" was a Carisi composition! ridiculous that i didn't know that. those two compositions sound perpetually modern to me. great writing - and performing! that shit is very hard to play.

i know you guys in this thread think i'm an ass when it comes to Israel and i can, in a way, understand that. so i wasn't gonna chime in on the little discussion/comments started on Carisi's "Israel." but it's interesting and i'll be brief and non-confrontational. seems unquestionable to me, considering it was written in/around 1948, that the title refers to the newly created State. and while it's a somewhat safe assumption that it was a "positive tribute," that is an assumption. the tune is, after all, a minor blues. not trying to be cute here. if anyone has direct source quotes from Carisi or Wolpe on that issue it'd be interesting, but probably not very 'important.'

interesting quote found from painter Mordechai Ardon on Wolpe:

"He was from this group. As he was in Israel, something happened to him too. Not in a political way, and not in an artificial morality, not Zionist. It was something like destiny. He felt that there is something he belongs to. He was a Jew by description, but not a Jew. He became involved, not in Jewishness, but in some primary feelings. He was not brought up as a Jew, but he suddenly had a feeling for these strange roots. He felt that it is something for him too. After the war in '52 or '53 he came back, he was searching for this strange point. This was the purpose of coming back, nothing more. He didn't find it, and went away."

[Larry Kart]

About "Israel" being a minor blues and thus ... yes, I think that's a bridge or three too far. The music of Palestine that Wolpe (and perhaps through him Carisi in part) was responding to would have been predominantly in the minor mode by and large, as we classify such things.

Further, perhaps my "positively" isn't even needed. Could have just been the fact of possible connection through Wolpe to the music of that region and the piece Carisi had written, plus the fact that Israel was in the news. Handy tag, like "Klactoveedsedstene."

[JSngry]

Is it a really minor blues as played by the Davis nonet?

Not exactly...