Night of the Cookers

[Leeway]

This is hot, bold, fresh, raw, no holds barred, right out on the ragged edge, spontaneous, exciting, and inspirational music.

When I described the music as "frenetic," I guess I heard more "ragged edge" than "exciting." I do agree that it is hardly dull.

I want to give this another listen. I can do that as I recently picked up original Vols I and 2 on vinyl. This is an album that seems to come and go and come back again in people's collections

[wesbed]

This is an album that seems to come and go and come back again in people's collections

It is odd the way people are writing, in this thread, that they had this session, sold it, bought it, sold it, and bought it again. What gives?

I purchased this session once, last Tuesday, and plan to keep it. I'm learning that this session has a strange effect on people. As if it holds some mysterious jazz power.

[mgraham333]

I bought the Spanish Blue Note version of this a while back, not really knowing it's reputation. I bought it based on the line-up...haven't we all done that once or twice (Although Vol. 1 in the Spanish Blue Note version has Leo Morgan... Lee's lesser known cousin from Grays Ferry, PA)

I liked it when I got it, but didn't love it. I wasn't into the looser blowing sessions with long noodling solos. But my tastes have grown since then. I can appreciate...and enjoy the more out stuff from the likes of McLean, Hill, Moncur, and even Cecil Taylor. Not that Cookers is avant-garde... It's good 'ole Bop stretched to it's limits and infused with spontaneity and lots of showy displays.

What I like most about Cookers, and even more so with the RVG version, is the feeling of the live atmosphere. Many of the live dates don't sound all that lively, or at least don't give you the sense of being there. Cookers puts you right in the audience. A rowdy, but respectful audience....something I wish was more prevalent in real life.

So you can count me in the number that seems to be jumping on the bandwagon and supporting Cookers, but really, I've been there all along.

[Stefan Wood]

I don't know what you guys are hearing but I have always liked this session. Top notch playing -- and better sound, with the RVG remaster.

Edited July 16, 2004 by Stefan Wood

[Leeway]

Just got through listening to my vinyl copies of NIGHT OF THE COOKERS, Vol. 1 and 2 (Liberty pressing). I originally characterized the playing as "frenetic," and I think if you listen to the last 5 minues or so of "Walkin'," you might see what I mean. (That cut should have been called, "Runnin' "). However, upon re-listening, I'm developing a more favorable impression of NOTC. There is a lot of fine playing here.

This is a high-energy, non-stop blowing session, hurricane-force. It's like stepping into a party that has been going on for a while. This can be disconcerting to the listener; you have to be in the right mood for this one. This is also something of a cutting contest. The original liner notes (are they on the CD reissue?) points out that, except for Big Black and Lee Morgan, the other players were Hubbard's regular working group. With Morgan stepping on the bandstand, the two trumpeters, especially Hubbard, occcasionally like to demonstrate how many notes and how fast they can play. But it's all done in that party-hardy mode. I would hardly call this session " a turd," or a session that doesn't cook- no way. This is a musicians jamfest, and it should be approached in that fashion.

OK, a few of questions:

I know Club La Marchal was in Brooklyn, but does anyone know exactly where, or at least what section of Brooklyn it was in? Has anyone ever been there?

Also, my album cover says "re-recorded and mastered" by Rudy Van Gelder. What does "re-recorded" mean? Orville O'Brien is credited with the recording. Who is he?

And the liner notes mention "Jest Us," "a group of young women devoted to the promotion of jazz. While their husbands (Freddie Hubbard, Cedar Walton, Bobby Timmons, etc) are star performers and mainstays in the jazz field, these women have participate dunselfishly in promoting this art form which is often taken for granted. It is valid to say that "Jest Us" are as much to be thanked for this album as are the artists themselves." Does anyone know about "Jest Us"? And what did thay have to do with this session taking place?

[jazzbo]

I don't know anything about Jest Us; I had wondered about that a while ago and just forgot about it.

The "Re-recorded" bit would mean, I think, that RVG and Lion sat down and RVG changed/re-engineered the recording to more resemble a Blue Note recording as he mastered this to lp. . . . This happened on a few other recordings that were purchased by the label and not recorded originally by RVG.

[Leeway]

RVG changed/re-engineered the recording

Thanks, got that, but was/am looking for something more specific as to what was done, if possible.

[jazzbo]

RVG reveal what he did specifically? Not bloody likely! Maybe Steve Hoffman can put on his special cap and read what happened out of RVG's memory cells. . . .

Edited July 16, 2004 by jazzbo

[Chuck Nessa]

Right.

Steve is such a clown.

[Bill Nelson]

'NOTC' is for BN heads and completists. It's such a ragged recording and the playing is not up to the usual Lion/Wolff standard (I'm surprised they were THAT desperate to recoup their advance to Hubbard). I've dumped my Liberty copies (Vols. 1 and 2), which were probably snapped up by newbie BN collectors. There's a reason so many of us with large collections unload our copies of 'NOTC' -- we need the shelfspace for more important recordings.

[Shawn]

Re-Recorded usually means that the engineer (in this case Rudy) took tapes that were recorded at a different studio/live venue...ran them back through their own board, changed EQ settings, balance, added effects, etc...then recorded it back to tape for making the master.

[Dmitry]

Just got through listening to my vinyl copies of NIGHT OF THE I know Club La Marchal was in Brooklyn, but does anyone know exactly where, or at least what section of Brooklyn it was in?

La Marchal is long gone.

It was located on Nostrand Avenue corner of President Street, in Crown Heights.

Someone should do a book on the forgotten jazz joints of New York. I wish I could...alas, no talent.

Edited July 19, 2004 by Dmitry

[Big Al]

Saw the RVG at Tower last night for $12.99! New! Figured what the hell, even if I don't like it, the trade-in would be about half of what I paid, so it's worth a shot.

Put me on the side of the bunch that likes it. I agree with a lot of what's already been said: loose, ragged, rowdy, exciting, fun, all those things. All I know is it made for some EXCELLENT drivnig music while driving down I-30 last night! Somethin' about that "Pensativa" groove....

[wesbed]

Cookers is your basic jam. And, a most excellent one at that.

[sidewinder]

Yes, it surpassed expectations for me. After all the negatives I've been hearing on this one over the years I was expecting a total 'train wreck' or Tyronian proportions. Turns out its a pretty enjoyable jam, with Morgan, Hubbard and Spaulding tearing it up on CD1 in particular. The audience also sounds pretty atmospheric (almost as if they had let them out of their cages just for the evening.. ).

[jazzbo]

Makes you wonder if the "Tyronian trainwreck" really was one . . . of if they managed to stop the locomotive right before it ran over the damsel tied to the rails!

[sidewinder]

Makes you wonder if the "Tyronian trainwreck" really was one . . . of if they managed to stop the locomotive right before it ran over the damsel tied to the rails!

[Noj]

Haven't heard Night Of The Cookers, but I'm sure I don't like Hub-Tones--first RVG I've sold.

[Leeway]

'NOTC' is for BN heads and completists. It's such a ragged recording and the playing is not up to the usual Lion/Wolff standard (I'm surprised they were THAT desperate to recoup their advance to Hubbard). I've dumped my Liberty copies (Vols. 1 and 2), which were probably snapped up by newbie BN collectors. There's a reason so many of us with large collections unload our copies of 'NOTC' -- we need the shelfspace for more important recordings.

Hey Bill, was that you? Thanks for the vinyl

You seem to have a terribly important BN collection if you can't find 1/4 inch of shelf space for these two LPs. But your loss is someone esle's gain -"newbie" or not.

[Enterprise Server]

Uhhhhh……I guess I'm missing something here. I have always liked NOTC. There is some very fine work by James Spaulding on these dates. I first was introduced to NOTC by a close friend back in the early 70's and we loved it. Perhaps someone could tell me why I've been mislead all these years about this recording. I was not aware this recording was so weak…..according to this thread.

[Cali]

Don't worry about it. My experience has been similar to yours. When I was in the Army my buddies and I played this regularly in the barracks and we cheered along with the audience on the record! There would always be sides chosen between Lee and Freddie during the duel on PENSITIVA.

[CJ Shearn]

Up for some fresh air. I bought this last night, and finished disc 1. I like it, maybe thats cuz I like blowing sessions.

[ASNL77]

Maybe the worst BN ever! I have the new RVG edition and I don't like the music & the sound.I am only keeping it because I like the cover! But if somebody gives me a good price for it I may be tempted to get rid of it! Not the best advert to sell a product though!!

[BFrank]

I don't know if this is a one-shot deal or a tour or what, but it has just been announced at Yoshi's:

Sept 1-4, "Night of the Cookers" Charles Tolliver, Billy Harper, James Spaulding, David Weiss, John Hicks, Dwayne Burno, and drums tba

All I can say is............WOW!

[chris olivarez]

Didn't work for me.