did miles FIRE red for evans

[J.A.W.]

what track did miles play piano on on milestones--- and what do u mean yusef and miles/////

The track on "Milestones" called: Sid's ahead.

That's what Brownie said a few posts back...

[Alon Marcus]

what track did miles play piano on on milestones--- and what do u mean yusef and miles/////

The track on "Milestones" called: Sid's ahead.

That's what Brownie said a few posts back...

Sorry, I noticed it after posting my reply.

[Joe G]

Regardless, Bill Evans stint in the band was important for Miles' direction. But he really wasn't around that long and was already out of the band by the time of the Kind Of Blue album...he came back to do the recording per Miles' request.

I've read that Bill (and Miles) got more than a little flak from black audiences who didn't like the fact that a white man was holding down the piano chair in Miles' band. His bandmates (notably Cannonball) defended him, but he could only take so much of that.

[J.A.W.]

Regardless, Bill Evans stint in the band was important for Miles' direction.  But he really wasn't around that long and was already out of the band by the time of the Kind Of Blue album...he came back to do the recording per Miles' request.

I've read that Bill (and Miles) got more than a little flak from black audiences who didn't like the fact that a white man was holding down the piano chair in Miles' band. His bandmates (notably Cannonball) defended him, but he could only take so much of that.

That, and the fact that he wanted to lead his own trio.

[JSngry]

I know I'm going to get beaten up for this next remark...but I have never really been all that excited abput Bill Evans.

Can't speak for anybody else, but I got your back on this one.

[Joe G]

You stupid-ass donkey who no like jazz!

[Joe G]

[JSngry]

Me stupid-ass donkey who no like neurotic navel-gazing that rushes.

Seriously, for me, when Evans is good, he's great. Truly great. But he's not that good that often, not in terms of his overall output.

[Chuck Nessa]

Me thinkst (?) a bunch of folks here have the back of anyone questioning the value of Evans' "influence".

Edited November 15, 2004 by Chuck Nessa

[Brad]

Miles was always into change so it's no surprise that he kept changing. He got rid of Philly Joe, didn't he? Regaring Wesbed's comments about Evans being better than Red, you can't compare them. They're so different. As for the ludicrous comment about Evans being overrated, that's just...ludicrous in my book.

[wesbed]

Regaring Wesbed's comments about Evans being better than Red, you can't compare them.  They're so different.

It was not my intention to convey that Evans is 'better' than Garland. The point I'd hoped to make was that as much as I enjoy Evans and as much as Evans is held in high regard, I enjoy Red Garland equally. Depending on my mood, I might, at times, enjoy Red Garland more. While the two players are different, each affects me in the same grand way.

When I first discovered Red Garland via his trio recordings, I was surprised and pleased to discover that, to my ears, Garland's playing is as enjoyable as Evans' and, at times, for the same reasons. When I write 'for the same reasons' I don't mean that each plays the same but that each man's style affects me in the same very positive sort of way.

[JSngry]

To invert what people liked to say about President Clinton, Red was not particularly wide, but he sure was deep.

And speaking as someone who heard him in person locally often enough throughout the 1970s to have an "informed" opinion, I feel comfortable saying that he deepened quite a bit after he went off the scene. What he lost in right hand fluencey due to semin-retirement, he gained in harmonic depth. Many a night he'd open a tune like "On A Clear Day" with a looooong unaccompanied introduction that would really take the tune apart harmonically and put it back together in some startling ways. I'd feel quite comfortable in attributing some of these "directions" to the influence of Bill Evans, sure, but when Red went into the tune proper, it was pure Red, and it stayed that way.

Now maybe that gives us some insight into the whats, whys, and hows of the Evans/Davis intersection. Or maybe not.

[John L]

I seem to recall that Miles takes up the question of Evans in his Autobiography. As I understood, Miles was fascinated at the time in taking the modal thing as far as it could go, and hooked up with Evans for that reason. No?

[BruceW]

Gee, and I thought he got Bill Evans because Red had died!!!!!

Come to think of it, Paul Chambers, the bass player, died around that time also.

B-)

Edited November 15, 2004 by BruceW

[Parkertown]

Wrong!

[Parkertown]

Red Garland: Died April 23, 1984 in Dallas, TX.

Mr. P.C.: Died January 4, 1969 in New York, NY.

[brownie]

To quote from 'Miles, The Autobiography' Miles Davis/Quincy Troupe:

''After Red Garland walked out on me, I found a new piano player named Bill Evans. I wasn't mad at Red, but I had moved past the point where he could contribute what I wanted in the sound of the band. I needed a piano player who was into the modal thing, and Bill Evans was.''

[Guy Berger]

To quote from 'Miles, The Autobiography' Miles Davis/Quincy Troupe:

''After Red Garland walked out on me, I found a new piano player named Bill Evans. I wasn't mad at Red, but I had moved past the point where he could contribute what I wanted in the sound of the band. I needed a piano player who was into the modal thing, and Bill Evans was.''

I think it's worth taking anything Miles said with a grain of salt -- particularly stuff he said 4 decades after the fact.

Guy

[Dan Gould]

To quote from 'Miles, The Autobiography' Miles Davis/Quincy Troupe:

''After Red Garland walked out on me, I found a new piano player named Bill Evans. I wasn't mad at Red, but I had moved past the point where he could contribute what I wanted in the sound of the band. I needed a piano player who was into the modal thing, and Bill Evans was.''

I think it's worth taking anything Miles said with a grain of salt -- particularly stuff he said 4 decades after the fact.

Guy

I think Miles' explanation is pretty straightforward and there's no reason whatsoever to injest grains of salt with it, four decades after the fact or not. Modal playing was the new thing, it wasn't Red's bag anyway, he found what he wanted ...

[jazzbo]

Or to my thinking the truth of the matter may be . . . it doesn't really matter!

[Guy Berger]

To quote from 'Miles, The Autobiography' Miles Davis/Quincy Troupe:

''After Red Garland walked out on me, I found a new piano player named Bill Evans. I wasn't mad at Red, but I had moved past the point where he could contribute what I wanted in the sound of the band. I needed a piano player who was into the modal thing, and Bill Evans was.''

I think it's worth taking anything Miles said with a grain of salt -- particularly stuff he said 4 decades after the fact.

I think Miles' explanation is pretty straightforward and there's no reason whatsoever to injest grains of salt with it, four decades after the fact or not. Modal playing was the new thing, it wasn't Red's bag anyway, he found what he wanted ...

Except that AFAIK, Miles didn't record a single modal tune during Evans's actual tenure in the band.

Guy

[Dan Gould]

Except that AFAIK, Miles didn't record a single modal tune during Evans's actual tenure in the band.

                  Guy

Do you mean to say that contrary to everything I've ever read about Kind of Blue, its not (aside from "Freddie Freeloader" which Wynton Kelly plays on anyway) the breakthrough modal album?

[John L]

Dan: Guy's point may actually be a good one. As understand, Evans joined and quit the band before Kind of Blue. Miles brought him back for the recording. (I seem to recall that, although I could be mistaken.)

Of course, the few recordings made during Evans' tenure probably do not properly reflect the musical interaction that Miles and Evans were having in the modal sphere. Kind of Blue is probably the best evidence of that.

Edited November 16, 2004 by John L

[Dan Gould]

Dan: Guy's point may actually be a good one. As understand, Evan's joined and quit the band before Kind of Blue. Miles brought him back for the recording. (I seem to recall that, although I could be mistaken.)

Of course, the few recordings made during Evan's tenure probably do not properly reflect the musical interaction that Miles and Evans were having in the modal sphere. Kind of Blue is probably the best evidence of that.

Be that as it may, Kind of Blue was not the very first time anyone played modes. Whether it wasn't documented at a recording session until after Evans had actually left the band says absolutely nothing about whether or not Miles had been moving in a modal direction for some time before.

And if he brought Evans back specifically for that recording, it says everything you need to know about how Miles felt about Evans modal playing.

[Guy Berger]

Except that AFAIK, Miles didn't record a single modal tune during Evans's actual tenure in the band.

                  Guy

Do you mean to say that contrary to everything I've ever read about Kind of Blue, its not (aside from "Freddie Freeloader" which Wynton Kelly plays on anyway) the breakthrough modal album?

Dan,

As John L mentions, Kind of Blue was recorded several months after Evans's departure from the band. During Evans's tenure in Davis's working group, the group had a similar live repertoire to that when Garland was in the group. The "jazz track" studio session with Evans didn't include any modal pieces.

It's definitely plausible that Miles hired Evans because he had a different approach to the piano than Garland. But there's absolutely no recorded evidence that he did so because "Evans was into the modal thing."

Guy

Edited November 15, 2004 by Guy Berger