did miles FIRE red for evans

[Guest ariceffron]

why did red leave...red is good

[sal]

As good as Red is, he ain't no Bill Evans!

Just like he always did, Miles was looking to evolve, and Bill Evans had that special something that Miles was looking for. Red was a fantastic player, well versed in tradition with a wonderful touch. But I think Miles was looking for a player who was revolutionary, and that's what Bill Evans was.

[Jim Alfredson]

Man, once you go white, nothing else is right!

[Chuck Nessa]

Red was replaced because one (or more) of his "abuse problems" made him unreliable. But, Bill....................

[Guest ariceffron]

yea but i would argue reds the better piano player cause he is more connected to the roots of jazz piano?!>?!

[Chuck Nessa]

So you really didn't want an answer. Silly me.

[clifford_thornton]

[J.A.W.]

[wesbed]

By chance, I've been playing lots of Red Garland and Bill Evans recently. I've been enjoying the hell out of both. As much as I like Bill Evans I've surprised myself by discovering just how damned good Red Garland sounds too. I mean, Bill Evans or Red Garland, who is better? The moral of the story: Miles Davis knew how to choose a piano player.

Either of these guys, you can't go wrong. Such great keyboard touch and style from both. Tommy Flanagan is another who brings great delight to my ears.

[Guest ariceffron]

no your asnwer was good

[Guy Berger]

As good as Red is, he ain't no Bill Evans!

Just like he always did, Miles was looking to evolve, and Bill Evans had that special something that Miles was looking for. Red was a fantastic player, well versed in tradition with a wonderful touch. But I think Miles was looking for a player who was revolutionary, and that's what Bill Evans was.

I think this is more or less right. You listen to the studio recordings Miles made with Bill just 2 months after Milestones, and a whole new space opens up in the music that wasn't there when Red was in the band. I'm not sure whether this was just a serendipitous discovery or whether Miles knew (at least subconsciously) what he was looking for in a pianist, but it's really hard to imagine Kind of Blue with Red at the keys.

Guy

[Chuck Nessa]

.....a whole new space opens up in the music that wasn't there when Red was in the band

AND stuff was closed off too. Not such a simple "forward" progression.

It took Miles about a decade to "rediscover" the blues.

[Guy Berger]

.....a whole new space opens up in the music that wasn't there when Red was in the band

AND stuff was closed off too. Not such a simple "forward" progression.

It took Miles about a decade to "rediscover" the blues.

What about the Kelly/Chambers/Cobb band?

Guy

[Morganized]

I certainly do not claim to be the expert on these things as there are many more Board Members more knowledgeable than I about these things, but I believe I read where Miles had become very interested in the notes NOT played or what has been referenced here as "space". I believe he developed some of his ideas after listening to Ahmad Jamal and even told Red that he wanted him to play like that....

Miles clearly wanted to move in a different direction and Evans complimented that direction.

Maybe others can shed more light on this.

[Alon Marcus]

I think there were also more "prosaic" reasons. Most of you probably remember that Miles played piano on one track of Milestones instead of Red. I believe that Garland's tenure with him was close to an end. Evans was the right man in the right place but Davis didn't choose him because he was less immersed in tradition than Garland. Wynton Kelly who was next, is a symbol of hard bop tradition, one of the more conservative players ever (he was really good and tasteful though) and he replaced Evans.

[pryan]

Wynton Kelly who was next, is a symbol of hard bop tradition, one of the more conservative players ever (he was really good and tasteful though) and he replaced Evans.

I don't get this sentence. Please elaborate.

[JSngry]

Bill Evans was recommended by Dave Liebman.

And whatever interest Miles might have had in doing "something different" was greatly facilitated by Red's habit.

Now, when did Yuself Lateef play piano with Miles?

I think I misunderstood the question, but not the answer.

[mikeweil]

Don'r forget Bill Evans' important contribution to the development of modal playing - something Red Garland never got into.

As nice as Red is to listen to, I find him somewhat limited and self-content and a little overrated. Just my two cents, of course.

[Guest ariceffron]

what track did miles play piano on on milestones--- and what do u mean yusef and miles/////

[jazzbo]

Aric, Jim is playing around with the name "Bill Evans." The Bill Evans that Liebman recommended to Miles is a sax player who played in a later band. And Yusef Lateef ("Gentle Joseph") was given the birth name of William (Bill?) Evans.

[sal]

It was my understanding that Miles did fire Red Garland, but Bill Evans left on his own.

Miles did always have an eye for seeing something special in a musician, usually even before they began changing the shape of the music. Garland and Kelly were fantastic players (especially Kelly, IMO one of the swingingist players ever), but neither of them rocked the foundations of jazz to its core like Bill Evans did.

Even in the 1980's, he brought Dave Liebman, John Scofield, Wallace Rooney and Kenny Garrett into his bands. Although these players may not be John Coltranes or Bill Evans's, they are still extremely talented players who have enjoyed long, fruitful careers in this music, with much thanks to Miles' tutelage.

[brownie]

what track did miles play piano on on milestones---

Miles plays piano on one track - 'Sid's Ahead' - of the 'Milestones' album.

Trouble was brewing with Red Garland at the time, obviously!

[Shawn]

I know I'm going to get beaten up for this next remark...but I have never really been all that excited abput Bill Evans. He is a talented player, he helped push the modal thing along...but as far as I'm concerned...he's a little overrated in the grand scheme of things.

I believe Red was fired primarily because of his drug habits. Didn't Miles fire the entire band at one point during this era? Only to hire most of them back again?

Regardless, Bill Evans stint in the band was important for Miles' direction. But he really wasn't around that long and was already out of the band by the time of the Kind Of Blue album...he came back to do the recording per Miles' request. Plus another thing to consider, on that very album is that Miles chose Wynton Kelly (who was in the band by this point) to play on Freddie Freeloader because that song was better complimented by Kelly's style.

Red had his own thing...Evans had his own thing...and Kelly had his own thing...but importantly, what Miles loved about Kelly is that he could play in the style of both of these former band members when the situation needed it.

[Alon Marcus]

Wynton Kelly who was next, is a symbol of hard bop tradition, one of the more conservative players ever (he was really good and tasteful though) and he replaced Evans.

I don't get this sentence. Please elaborate.

I meant to say that Miles wasn't intentionally looking for a totally different player than Red. He didn't have anything against his style and the proof is that Kelly was much closer conceptually to Garland than to Evans.

Edited November 14, 2004 by ztrauq22

[Alon Marcus]

what track did miles play piano on on milestones--- and what do u mean yusef and miles/////

The track on "Milestones" called: Sid's ahead.