I don't "get" Miles Davis

[jazzbo]

Bev gives really good advice. I keep listening to music that I've listened to for decades and finding a ndew approach to the material. And I'm now enjoying things that I distinctly didn't enjoy before, and couldn't be bothered to listen to items that used to excite me in the past.

The "K2" versions mentioned above. . . K2 is a mastering process developed by JVC and used on both Japanese and some American cds. There are Japanese versions of all the Miles Davis Prestige titles available in K2 versions, and some of these have been released in K2 versions in America by Fantasy/OJC. Also K2 is an integral part of the XRCD process and many of the Prestige Davis titles have been available in XRCD.

[Chuck Nessa]

If you don't get Miles, move on. Have a life. Your loss.

What else do you need an instruction book for?

[7/4]

If you don't get Miles, move on. Have a life. Your loss.

What else do you need an instruction book for?

[montg]

I looked at your list of trumpeters...given who you're listening to, you might really enjoy Roy Eldridge. He's truly one of the greats--as a trumpeter you'll appreciate his incredible range and control. He's one of the most purely exciting trumpters in jazz history.

'Sketches' doesn't do much for me either. I've always felt it was overly pretentious. Nothing pretentious about Eldridge, on the other hand.

[montg]

P.S. If you've been ready the board for a few months, you'll know that that's just Chuck's way of saying 'welcome aboard'.

[Bright Moments]

i've been diggin hugh ragin lately. B-)

[Alon Marcus]

I really like most of his recorded output. The collaborations with Evans (including "Sketches") are all superb but some have more appeal. "Porgy and Bess" is so beautifully orchestrated that it catches you from its first notes. BB is really (like was said before) should be listened in a relation to IaSW but also it has relation to "Kind of Blue". Essentially this is modal music (I'm talking only from harmonic point of view; the record is much more advanced rhythmically and melodically). My belief is there only one step separating between modal and free jazz. BB like many Miles' records from the middle of the 60s somewhat closer to modal but has elements of free jazz (playing out of harmony, unusual song structures etc.). These are actually very unfriendly records (not like other Miles from Prestige for example) and really may require some time to understand them.

I will add another advice for BB listening: there is a lot going on there, many "layers" of music. You should try and listen for each layer separately (a time consuming task).

[Alon Marcus]

I'll say it out loud and await the tempest to come. There are now and there have always been better trumpet players than Miles. Irwin Stokes and Nicholas Payton are two of the best. I decided to admit the emperor had no clothes during a Miles concert where he was dressed as a dervish or something, turned his back as usual on the audience and allowed electronics to take center stage, rather than jazz. And when the audience lit up their reefers in appreciation my wife and I walked out, to the superior taunts of the fans nearby, I gave up on Miles and went home to listen to some records by Louis and Warren Vache.

So if theres some Miles that you don't really care for, it isn't your fault. Face it. He recorded a lot of shit. Believe your ears.

Well you are right in a way. Imagine that Payton and Davis were going to the same school of trumpet playing. Nicholas would probably get higher grades. I like him very much and never heard a mistake note from him. Miles on the other hand always makes mistakes; sometimes he really tickles your nerves. But this is exactly what I like about his improvising. The element of surprise. Payton is somehow more logical player.

Miles' playing (or better say the way he thinks and improvises) stayed on a high level even in his less successful records from the eighties (less successful doesn't mean no good!).

[Guy Berger]

I really like most of his recorded output. The collaborations with Evans (including "Sketches") are all superb but some have more appeal. "Porgy and Bess" is so beautifully orchestrated that it catches you from its first notes. BB is really (like was said before) should be listened in a relation to IaSW but also it has relation to "Kind of Blue".

In fact, "Flamenco Sketches" and "Spanish Key" have similar frameworks -- each soloist rotates through a series of scales during their improvisation.

Guy

[JSngry]

Have you checked out AL HIRT AT CARNEGIE HALL? It's got a Gerald Wilson arrangement on it.

[Chuck Nessa]

Have you checked out AL HIRT AT CARNEGIE HALL? It's got a Gerald Wilson arrangement on it.

[Harold_Z]

Have you checked out AL HIRT AT CARNEGIE HALL? It's got a Gerald Wilson arrangement on it.

Now that's funny!

[JSngry]

Well, it DOES!

[Chuck Nessa]

I lost track of "where I was" and was about to suggest merging this thread with the "Miles, WTF" thread - but we are already there. B-)

FWIW SoS is pretentious and at the same time some of the greatest recorded statements by a trumpet playing musician on record. Magnificent.

Nothing wrong with pretensions if they pay off like this.

I've loved, and been affected by, this music for 40+ years.

[Chuck Nessa]

Here are several I looked at/listened to:

1. Sketches of Spain

2. Bitches Brew

3. Someday My Prince Will Come

There were a few others, but I can't remember them

Please explain the problems you had with the ones you "looked at". What did you like about them?

What's your definition of "several"?

I hope my questions aren't too harsh.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

To me, the obvious answer is not Miles Davis at all, it's Maynard Ferguson. Judging by your list, I can't imagine you'd find anything like the same problems with Maynard. After that, you can go with 1970s Kenton and Herman, maybe some Buddy Rich. Loud, high, and fast. "Less is more"? No way - more is more. And too much is almost just enough.

Mike

[Guest Chaney]

I have a tangential question: When did it become so important that a jazz musician play perfectly? That the only mistakes are to be intentional, inserted to exhibit a bit of humanity. A particular decade? The rise of a particular genre / school of thought? Blame it on the '70s? Was it Marsalis and his ilk and their wax museum recreation of the sounds of the past?

Seems like to some, the playing must have that sheen, like a freshly waxed car. All must glisten. All must be perfection. (New car smell optional.)

Or maybe it's not seen as important and I'm mistaken.

(This question comes to my mind every time a discussion is begun as to the voice of Miles.)

[Noj]

These are the kind of discussions that leave me scratching my noggin. I've heard loads of great Miles Davis where I couldn't tell you where he flubbed a note, every noise he made sounds intentional and well played to me since I don't know shit about manipulating a horn.

I've also got some killer Al Hirt tracks. Serious!

[Chuck Nessa]

To me, the obvious answer is not Miles Davis at all, it's Maynard Ferguson. Judging by your list, I can't imagine you'd find anything like the same problems with Maynard.

Hey Mike, don't rag on my man Maynard. He played flat alot, just like Dizzy. B-)

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Did you say flat or fat?

Mike

[Joe G]

Seems like to some, the playing must have that sheen, like a freshly waxed car. All must glisten. All must be perfection. (New car smell optional.)

Or maybe it's not seen as important and I'm mistaken.

(This question comes to my mind every time a discussion is begun as to the voice of Miles.)

When we were in the studio with Ron Blake, he put it like this: "FUCK perfection!"

Not hard for a bunch of homemade changes guys like us.

[Jazzmoose]

Perfection means you're too comfortable; take some chances...

[pryan]

Human beings are imperfect by nature. Jazz musicians are human beings. Therefore, jazz musicians are imperfect.

I like it when guys really stretch out/challenge themselves and their audience. Makes you feel a bit uncomfortable. Sometimes that's a good thing. You're not going anywhere if you don't try new things and challenge your normal ways of thinking.

[Brad]

I'd suggest a different tack on Miles. Why not listen to some early Miles when he was getting his act together with Charlie Parker. He takes some good solos on these sides and he even had his first leader session for Savoy while with Bird (who's on tenor). I think this was more of a way for Savoy to record Bird without Bird having to pay royalties to Dial, which gets me why don't you get Bird Savoy/Dial sessions. Even if you don't love anything, there's lot of Miles, it's a great introduction to both Bird and Bop (although that's probably synonomous).

[take5]

I can't even look at Sketches of Spain as a jazz album, per say.

Fortunately, jazz is far from the only music I like.

Sketches is gorgeous, the way an oft-neglected Andante movement of a moderately well-known symphony is, or that ballad on a rock album that you skipped to get to the "good stuff" but then fell in love with when you've heard the big hit a million times and you want to revisit the whole album.