K-2 remasterings

[wolff]

Listening to the VICJ of Art Pepper + Eleven for the first time right now ...

 

The remastering puts Art right in your lap! How can a speaker make a sound feel like it's right in front of you?

Pretty nice, hey!! I've had same response to the OJC LP. If Kessel's "Some Like It Hot"(with Pepper and Joe Gordon) is a VICJ or K2, I'm guessing you'll have the same pleasurable response.

Edited February 14, 2005 by wolff

[Late]

If Kessel's "Some Like It Hot" (with Pepper and Joe Gordon) is a VICJ or K2, I'm guessing you'll have the same pleasurable response.

Ulp ... I don't even know that record ... .

[wolff]

If Kessel's "Some Like It Hot" (with Pepper and Joe Gordon) is a VICJ or K2, I'm guessing you'll have the same pleasurable response.

Ulp ... I don't even know that record ... .

Not a K2 yet, maybe a VICJ??

From Fantasy....Of all the many sessions recorded by Barney Kessel for Contemporary (dating back to 1953), none was more remarkable in terms of personnel and performance than this aptly named set. Not only is there a second guitarist in the person of Jack Marshall, and a powerful pair of hornmen in Joe Gordon and Art Pepper, but the rhythm section is one of the best ever, with Jimmy Rowles, Monty Budwig, and Shelly Manne. Moreover, Kessel reaches back for some of the really old standards, updating them in a style that is consistently exhilarating.

Some Like It Hot, I Wanna Be Loved by You, Stairway to the Stars, Sweet Sue, Runnin' Wild, Sweet Georgia Brown, Down Among the Sheltering Palms, Sugar Blues, I'm Through with Love, By the Beautiful Sea, plus CD bonus tracks Sweet Sue (alternate), Runnin' Wild (alternate)

with Art Pepper, Joe Gordon, Jimmy Rowles, Jack Marshall, Monty Budwig, Shelly Manne

[Late]

Not a K2 yet, maybe a VICJ??

Jeez — the Fantasy catalog description makes it sound pretty good. One to add to the list. I don't think it's been K-2'ed or VICJ'ed. (Snap.)

[Late]

Just got done listening to the VICJ of Coltrane's Settin' the Pace (courtesy of Hiroshi Tanno), and am very impressed. This one does seem a little louder than most VICJs (compression?), but the soundstage appears very natural, and Chambers' bass is exquisitely miked — full, but never booming. This session has always been one of my favorite Coltranes on Prestige, and it will now be receiving even more airplay! Right up there, soundwise, with the VICJs of Cookin' and Way Out West.

[Peter]

Regarding the Fantasy remasters, got a question I hope someone can answer. Is the non-SACD program on the SACD hybrids K2 or conventional old mastering. I don't have a SACD cd player now and am unsure whether to go for the SACD hybrids or the K2s. Thanks.

[Late]

I don't know the answer to your question, Peter, but the SACD hybrid of Gil Evans' And Ten is the only way to get this album in true stereo. The sound is marvelous. If you don't already have it, I'd give it a big recommendation. Some great early Lacy there.

[Peter]

I'm a Lacy nut so I'll have to check that out. Thanks.

[Tony Pusey]

I have been buying up the latest incarnations of the Japanese K2s in jewel cases as fast as my bank manager and wife will allow and find to my surprise that this release programme is not identical to the list of VICJs in mini sleeves which Late posted, for example Ornettes Something Else, 3 volumes of Dolphy in Europe, Joe Henderssons Tetragon.......seems that this programme is more comprehensive that the previous, more expensive one....

[jazzbo]

Peter, I don't believe that the cd layer on the Gil Evans hybrid is a K2 remastering, but it is a great sounding new mastering, it's not just the former (mono) cd remastering.

Excellent disc!

[Claude]

Is the non-SACD program on the SACD hybrids K2 or conventional old mastering.

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K2's (and XRCDs) are remastered at the JVC studios in Japan, while the SACDs are remastered at the Fantasy studios. So the CD layer of the hybrid SACDs is not identical to the K2 CDs. It is however newly remastered, not the old remastering from the previous CD reissues.

"Conventional old mastering" is not necessarily worse than K2. The quality of a remastering depends less on the technology than on the skills of the engineer and the availability of well preserved original tapes.

[Big Al]

don't expect too much (acoustically) from the "Incredible jazz guitar" CD, because the tapes are in bad shape and none of the reissues sounds very good.

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How about the hybrid SACD? Any thoughts on that one?

[Ron S]

"Conventional old mastering" is not necessarily worse than K2. The quality of a remastering depends less on the technology than on the skills of the engineer and the availability of well preserved original tapes.

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Great examples of this are many of the OJC/Contemporary CD issues of the late '80's and early '90's, such as the Shelly Manne Blackhawk discs, Barney Kessel titles (such as "Some Like It Hot" mentioned earlier), Hampton Hawes titles, etc. To my ears, these original transfers/masterings sound as good as--if not better than--any 20-bit K2's I have. I suspect that Fantasy hasn't given some of these very popular titles--like the Manne Blackhawk discs--the 20-bit K2 treatment (for US release, at least) because it would be hard to improve on the orginal digital transfers and mastering. In fact, I was once told by someone at Fantasy that the reason they keep the older remasterings in their catalog (at least up until the Concord era) alongside any 20-bit K2 versions is that many people actually prefer the older remasterings. Can you imagine Blue Note doing the same with older versions of RVG issues, or Verve with older versions of VME issues?

Edited July 5, 2005 by Ron S

[J.A.W.]

"Conventional old mastering" is not necessarily worse than K2. The quality of a remastering depends less on the technology than on the skills of the engineer and the availability of well preserved original tapes.

←

Great examples of this are many of the OJC/Contemporary CD issues of the late '80's and early '90's, such as the Shelly Manne Blackhawk discs, Barney Kessel titles (such as "Some Like It Hot" mentioned earlier), Hampton Hawes titles, etc. To my ears, these original transfers/masterings sound as good as--if not better than--any 20-bit K2's I have. I suspect that Fantasy hasn't given some of these very popular titles--like the Manne Blackhawk discs--the 20-bit K2 treatment (for US release, at least) because it would be hard to improve on the orginal digital transfers and mastering. In fact, I was once told by someone at Fantasy that the reason they keep the older remasterings in their catalog (at least up until the Concord era) alongside any 20-bit K2 versions is that many people actually prefer the older remasterings. Can you imagine Blue Note doing the same with older versions of RVG issues, or Verve with older versions of VME issues?

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I fully second Claude's statement on mastering.

As for the mastering of older OJCs, many people do indeed prefer the older OJCs to the 20-bit K2 remasters, probably because the former are flat transfers/remasters whereas the latter are usually mastered brighter, so to speak.

[jazzbo]

. . . and the former cds are cheaper than the K2 and SACD hybrids!

[Ron S]

. . . and the former cds are cheaper than the K2 and SACD hybrids!

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Lonnie, you said a mouthful!

[Brad]

I had never heard of Ron's statement until now but I find nothing wrong with some of those old masterings. They sound good to me and without a better alternative I'm sticking with what I have.

[Ron S]

I had never heard of Ron's statement until now . . . .

Which statement is that?

[Big Al]

Could someone explain to me what is meant by a "flat transfer"? Does that mean all they did was do a straight remaster of the original tapes, with no tinkering with the sound?

[J.A.W.]

Could someone explain to me what is meant by a "flat transfer"? Does that mean all they did was do a straight remaster of the original tapes, with no tinkering with the sound?

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Yes.

[Claude]

Most US K2 CDs I have bought sound more dynamic and immediate than the older OJC remastering. (I A/B'ed them at adjusted volume, because the K2s are generally mastered louder). The instruments have tighter contours and are better seperated. The OJCs sound more distant and dull in comparision.

Some OJCs sound a bit thin (lack of lower midrange), while the K2s always sound full and natural. I noticed this especially with the Dolphy box. I don't know which transfers are more close to the original tapes, but the K2s are much more enjoyable, without being manipulated as Blue Note RVGs.

The difference can be quite small for some albums. But generally you can't go wrong with the K2s, because they all sound very good and are not much more expensive than the regular OJCs. The remastering quality is more consistent than on the Fantasy SACDs.

Another generalization I can make on Fantasy albums is that the DCC discs remastered by Steve Hoffman are again an improvement over the K2s. For some discs such as Bill Evans "Portrait in Jazz" or Vince Guaraldi's "Jazz Impressions of Black Orpheus" the difference is spectacular, because only Hoffman managed to do the tape transfer right. But they are OOP and are priced $20-40 on Ebay.

[J.A.W.]

Most US K2 CDs I have bought sound more dynamic and immediate than the older OJC remastering. (I A/B'ed them at adjusted volume, because the K2s are generally mastered louder). The instruments have tighter contours and are better seperated. The OJCs sound more distant and dull in comparision.

Some OJCs sound a bit thin (lack of lower midrange), while the K2s always sound full and natural. I noticed this especially with the Dolphy box. I don't know which transfers are more close to the original tapes, but the K2s are much more enjoyable, without being manipulated as Blue Note RVGs.

The difference can be quite small for some albums. But generally you can't go wrong with the K2s, because they all sound very good and are not much more expensive than the regular OJCs. The remastering quality is more consistent than on the Fantasy SACDs.

Another generalization I can make on Fantasy albums is that the DCC discs remastered by Steve Hoffman are again an improvement over the K2s. For some discs such as Bill Evans "Portrait in Jazz" or Vince Guaraldi's "Jazz Impressions of Black Orpheus" the difference is spectacular, because only Hoffman managed to do the tape transfer right. But they are OOP and are priced $20-40 on Ebay.

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Other DCCs I'd recommend very highly are the Hoffman remastered Miles Davis albums Miles Davis and Milt Jackson: Quintet/Sextet, The New Miles Davis Quintet/Miles, Steamin', Workin', Relaxin', and Cookin', his Wes Montgomery remasters So Much Guitar and Full House, his Sonny Rollins remasters Tenor Madness, Saxophone Colossus (the best version I've heard so far), and The Sound of Sonny, and his Cannonball Adderley remaster Know What I Mean? Unfortunately, like Claude said, they're all OOP and quite pricey.

Remasters I also like very much are the Analogue Productions hybrid SACDs, but I've already posted about those elsewhere.

Generally, I prefer the K2s and the XRCD K2s to the OJCs; the only problem I have with some of the K2s and XRCD K2s is, that they are remastered a tad too bright and loud to my taste.

Edited July 7, 2005 by J.A.W.