Mingus's most unappreciated album?

[.:.impossible]

I have this album on Who's Who In Jazz called "Charlie Mingus - His Final Work" produced by Lionel Hampton. I am going to listen to it this afternoon. Does anyone else have this? I'd be interested to hear your opinions.

Jack Walrath, Woody Shaw (trumpets)

Ricky Ford (tenor)

Paul Jeffrey (tenor, arranger)

Gerry Mulligan (baritone)

Bob Neloms (piano)

Lionel Hampton (vibraphone)

Charlie Mingus (bass)

Dannie Richmond (drums)

Peter Matt (french horn)

NYC 1977

[Hot Ptah]

I have this album on Who's Who In Jazz called "Charlie Mingus - His Final Work" produced by Lionel Hampton. I am going to listen to it this afternoon. Does anyone else have this? I'd be interested to hear your opinions.

Jack Walrath, Woody Shaw (trumpets)

Ricky Ford (tenor)

Paul Jeffrey (tenor, arranger)

Gerry Mulligan (baritone)

Bob Neloms (piano)

Lionel Hampton (vibraphone)

Charlie Mingus (bass)

Dannie Richmond (drums)

Peter Matt (french horn)

NYC 1977

I have it. I bought it when it first came out. I have always liked it. It works better than I thought it might. Lionel Hampton fits in well, I think. The tunes are treated more as blowing vehicles, instead of brooding masterpieces, but the album is very appealing to me--a good listen.

[.:.impossible]

Yeah, I'm listening now. Its nice. I remembered being disappointed every time I played it, but this was a while ago for me.

It doesn't feel overtly MINGUS. It has a happy-go-lucky swing feel to it, which I don't associate with Mingus.

"It Might As Well Be Spring" would be a great blindfold track. I would have thought Herb Albert. Or Sergio Mendez. Or some obscure Brazilian date. I certainly would not have guessed Mingus. The way his bass is amplified, it takes so much of his personality out of his playing. And glistening electric piano?! French horn, electric piano, amplified double bass, drum kit. Odd in the grand scheme of things.

I have a feeling my recollection of this album was based almost solely on "It Might As Well Be Spring"...

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Bumping this up... just because there's no "general" Mingus thread, and I have for the first time heard "Charles Mingus & Friends in Concert". Quite like the Town Hall concert from 1962 it's rather a mess, but a great mess, in a positive, creative way. That blues at the end of the first half with Ammons is smoking! And Ammons in general turns in some great playing - quite a weird choice anyway, to get Ammons in there... though Konitz and Mulligan aren't that much likelier. And Jon Faddis doing that Eldridge piece is quite fun as well.

Oi! Wossis? Never heard of Ammons working with Mingus. Early seventies? Montreux or somewhere in Europe?

More info pliz.

MG

[kh1958]

Bumping this up... just because there's no "general" Mingus thread, and I have for the first time heard "Charles Mingus & Friends in Concert". Quite like the Town Hall concert from 1962 it's rather a mess, but a great mess, in a positive, creative way. That blues at the end of the first half with Ammons is smoking! And Ammons in general turns in some great playing - quite a weird choice anyway, to get Ammons in there... though Konitz and Mulligan aren't that much likelier. And Jon Faddis doing that Eldridge piece is quite fun as well.

Oi! Wossis? Never heard of Ammons working with Mingus. Early seventies? Montreux or somewhere in Europe?

More info pliz.

MG

Gene Ammons is a guest artist on Mingus' large group concert at Philharmonic Hall. I forget the exact year, but maybe 1972 or so. The album is on Columbia, originally a two LP set. An expanded CD reissue is better than the original issue, especially for omitting an opening track featuring Bill Cosby. Ammons is featured on a couple of tracks (Mingus Blues and Jump Monk, I believe), and these are probably the two best tracks on the record. Overall, a somewhat disappointing record, not measuring up to the other contemporaneous great Mingus release on Columbia, Let My Children Hear Music, but still pretty good, especially the Ammons features.

[kh1958]

Yeah, I'm listening now. Its nice. I remembered being disappointed every time I played it, but this was a while ago for me.

It doesn't feel overtly MINGUS. It has a happy-go-lucky swing feel to it, which I don't associate with Mingus.

"It Might As Well Be Spring" would be a great blindfold track. I would have thought Herb Albert. Or Sergio Mendez. Or some obscure Brazilian date. I certainly would not have guessed Mingus. The way his bass is amplified, it takes so much of his personality out of his playing. And glistening electric piano?! French horn, electric piano, amplified double bass, drum kit. Odd in the grand scheme of things.

I have a feeling my recollection of this album was based almost solely on "It Might As Well Be Spring"...

The bass is amplified I believe because Mingus' illness was taking his strength--this is his final recording on the bass. I recall this came out at the same time as Cumbia and Jazz Fusion--I bought them both on the same day--it seemed pretty disappointing compared to Cumbia and Jazz Fusion. Now I like it for what it is, a blowing session on Mingus themes.

[Hot Ptah]

Bumping this up... just because there's no "general" Mingus thread, and I have for the first time heard "Charles Mingus & Friends in Concert". Quite like the Town Hall concert from 1962 it's rather a mess, but a great mess, in a positive, creative way. That blues at the end of the first half with Ammons is smoking! And Ammons in general turns in some great playing - quite a weird choice anyway, to get Ammons in there... though Konitz and Mulligan aren't that much likelier. And Jon Faddis doing that Eldridge piece is quite fun as well.

Oi! Wossis? Never heard of Ammons working with Mingus. Early seventies? Montreux or somewhere in Europe?

More info pliz.

MG

Gene Ammons is a guest artist on Mingus' large group concert at Philharmonic Hall. I forget the exact year, but maybe 1972 or so. The album is on Columbia, originally a two LP set. An expanded CD reissue is better than the original issue, especially for omitting an opening track featuring Bill Cosby. Ammons is featured on a couple of tracks (Mingus Blues and Jump Monk, I believe), and these are probably the two best tracks on the record. Overall, a somewhat disappointing record, not measuring up to the other contemporaneous great Mingus release on Columbia, Let My Children Hear Music, but still pretty good, especially the Ammons features.

I agree that it is disappointing, but I have always liked the swinging "Us Is Two" on that album, in addition to the Gene Ammons features.

[.:.impossible]

I was mostly referring to "Spring"...

[kh1958]

Bumping this up... just because there's no "general" Mingus thread, and I have for the first time heard "Charles Mingus & Friends in Concert". Quite like the Town Hall concert from 1962 it's rather a mess, but a great mess, in a positive, creative way. That blues at the end of the first half with Ammons is smoking! And Ammons in general turns in some great playing - quite a weird choice anyway, to get Ammons in there... though Konitz and Mulligan aren't that much likelier. And Jon Faddis doing that Eldridge piece is quite fun as well.

Oi! Wossis? Never heard of Ammons working with Mingus. Early seventies? Montreux or somewhere in Europe?

More info pliz.

MG

Gene Ammons is a guest artist on Mingus' large group concert at Philharmonic Hall. I forget the exact year, but maybe 1972 or so. The album is on Columbia, originally a two LP set. An expanded CD reissue is better than the original issue, especially for omitting an opening track featuring Bill Cosby. Ammons is featured on a couple of tracks (Mingus Blues and Jump Monk, I believe), and these are probably the two best tracks on the record. Overall, a somewhat disappointing record, not measuring up to the other contemporaneous great Mingus release on Columbia, Let My Children Hear Music, but still pretty good, especially the Ammons features.

I agree that it is disappointing, but I have always liked the swinging "Us Is Two" on that album, in addition to the Gene Ammons features.

I like that track quite a bit also, and I don't believe there is another Mingus recorded version of Us Is Two. The Mingus Big Band does a nice version of that composition.

[kh1958]

I was mostly referring to "Spring"...

I don't think that track was on the original LP--a CD bonus cut, I believe.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Bumping this up... just because there's no "general" Mingus thread, and I have for the first time heard "Charles Mingus & Friends in Concert". Quite like the Town Hall concert from 1962 it's rather a mess, but a great mess, in a positive, creative way. That blues at the end of the first half with Ammons is smoking! And Ammons in general turns in some great playing - quite a weird choice anyway, to get Ammons in there... though Konitz and Mulligan aren't that much likelier. And Jon Faddis doing that Eldridge piece is quite fun as well.

Oi! Wossis? Never heard of Ammons working with Mingus. Early seventies? Montreux or somewhere in Europe?

More info pliz.

MG

Gene Ammons is a guest artist on Mingus' large group concert at Philharmonic Hall. I forget the exact year, but maybe 1972 or so. The album is on Columbia, originally a two LP set. An expanded CD reissue is better than the original issue, especially for omitting an opening track featuring Bill Cosby. Ammons is featured on a couple of tracks (Mingus Blues and Jump Monk, I believe), and these are probably the two best tracks on the record. Overall, a somewhat disappointing record, not measuring up to the other contemporaneous great Mingus release on Columbia, Let My Children Hear Music, but still pretty good, especially the Ammons features.

This one?

A bit bleedin' expensive! Still it is two discs. And it DOES have Jug on it.

MG

[kh1958]

Bumping this up... just because there's no "general" Mingus thread, and I have for the first time heard "Charles Mingus & Friends in Concert". Quite like the Town Hall concert from 1962 it's rather a mess, but a great mess, in a positive, creative way. That blues at the end of the first half with Ammons is smoking! And Ammons in general turns in some great playing - quite a weird choice anyway, to get Ammons in there... though Konitz and Mulligan aren't that much likelier. And Jon Faddis doing that Eldridge piece is quite fun as well.

Oi! Wossis? Never heard of Ammons working with Mingus. Early seventies? Montreux or somewhere in Europe?

More info pliz.

MG

Gene Ammons is a guest artist on Mingus' large group concert at Philharmonic Hall. I forget the exact year, but maybe 1972 or so. The album is on Columbia, originally a two LP set. An expanded CD reissue is better than the original issue, especially for omitting an opening track featuring Bill Cosby. Ammons is featured on a couple of tracks (Mingus Blues and Jump Monk, I believe), and these are probably the two best tracks on the record. Overall, a somewhat disappointing record, not measuring up to the other contemporaneous great Mingus release on Columbia, Let My Children Hear Music, but still pretty good, especially the Ammons features.

This one?

A bit bleedin' expensive! Still it is two discs. And it DOES have Jug on it.

MG

Yes, that's it. It appears to be out of print in the U.S.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Yes, that's it. It appears to be out of print in the U.S.

Thanks. One to keep in mind, I think, rather than splash out on immediately.

MG

[Hot Ptah]

Bumping this up... just because there's no "general" Mingus thread, and I have for the first time heard "Charles Mingus & Friends in Concert". Quite like the Town Hall concert from 1962 it's rather a mess, but a great mess, in a positive, creative way. That blues at the end of the first half with Ammons is smoking! And Ammons in general turns in some great playing - quite a weird choice anyway, to get Ammons in there... though Konitz and Mulligan aren't that much likelier. And Jon Faddis doing that Eldridge piece is quite fun as well.

Oi! Wossis? Never heard of Ammons working with Mingus. Early seventies? Montreux or somewhere in Europe?

More info pliz.

MG

Gene Ammons is a guest artist on Mingus' large group concert at Philharmonic Hall. I forget the exact year, but maybe 1972 or so. The album is on Columbia, originally a two LP set. An expanded CD reissue is better than the original issue, especially for omitting an opening track featuring Bill Cosby. Ammons is featured on a couple of tracks (Mingus Blues and Jump Monk, I believe), and these are probably the two best tracks on the record. Overall, a somewhat disappointing record, not measuring up to the other contemporaneous great Mingus release on Columbia, Let My Children Hear Music, but still pretty good, especially the Ammons features.

This one?

A bit bleedin' expensive! Still it is two discs. And it DOES have Jug on it.

MG

MG, I would not necessarily buy this album if I were you. The Gene Ammons content is small overall. He plays a short feature solo piece, Mingus Blues, on which he plays a souful solo, and appears on one other song, but it is not a "great Gene Ammons album" that every Ammons fan has to have.

A lot of the album consists of sprawling pieces for too-large ensembles, which are not that well liked by even Mingus enthusiasts. I think that most Mingus fans think of it as one of his worst albums.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

MG, I would not necessarily buy this album if I were you. The Gene Ammons content is small overall. He plays a short feature solo piece, Mingus Blues, on which he plays a souful solo, and appears on one other song, but it is not a "great Gene Ammons album" that every Ammons fan has to have.

A lot of the album consists of sprawling pieces for too-large ensembles, which are not that well liked by even Mingus enthusiasts. I think that most Mingus fans think of it as one of his worst albums.

Yes, I've got that from reading this thread. On the other hand, I have nearly everything Jug ever recorded...

MG

[alocispepraluger102]

[Guest Bill Barton]

Good choice!

I'm also extremely fond of the Changes One and Changes Two sessions.

That band with Jack Walrath, George Adams, Don Pullen and Dannie Richmond was killin' live. I heard them in Montreal around the time the second of those albums was released. Some 30+ years and hundreds of concerts later that show still sticks in my memory as #1 in my book.

[.:.impossible]

I read this entire thread yesterday. It is funny how many times "East Coasting" and "Mingus Plays Piano" are mentioned. I hate that I don't own "Mingus Plays Piano".

[bertrand]

There are some problems with the Mingus And Friends, but there are also some excellent tracks. Also interesting to hear Joe Chambers play in a big band setting, and with Mingus.

Anyone ever noticed in the track with Dizzy how they mention that Lee Morgan is in the back but too sick to come out? This was just a few days before he was killed.

Bertrand.

[Gheorghe]

I have this album on Who's Who In Jazz called "Charlie Mingus - His Final Work" produced by Lionel Hampton. I am going to listen to it this afternoon. Does anyone else have this? I'd be interested to hear your opinions.

A really sad album. But considering the fact, that Mingus was fatally ill then, he must be admired for the will and strength of trying to play a bass while his hands are getting stiff. It´s painful to hear him like that, struggeling with his instrument. And about the music, it´s just Mingus´ tunes, the arrangements done by Paul Jeffrey are too polished. Mingus didn´t participate in the project, he let Paul Jeffrey go to Hampton´s place to perpare the material. They even had to change to title of "Remember Rockefeller at Attica" into "Just for Laughs" because Hampton didn´t want political music. Hampton´s solos are sympathic but unessential in Mingus´music. But we must not forget it was Hampton who had employed Mingus during the forties, it was that band that played "Mingus´Fingers" then....

[Niko]

thought i'd mention that this month zweitausendeins has the ucla, america sessions and paris 1964 double cds for 9,99 euro each... (have ordered ucla so far but i guess i'll get the others as well...)

[king ubu]

MG, sorry for not reacting to your query regarding Ammons! If you don't have much Mingus, this would hardly be a first choice to buy, but I found a used copy for an ok prize (on www.priceminister.com - you'll need some french there) and I quite enjoyed it. Also I'm not home now but to me it seemed like Ammons was quite all over the place... soloing in various numbers (freaking up at least one, where he ends his solo in the middle of a chorus), and generally turning in some of the best spots of the whole set. However, maybe it's just the strength of his three or four solos that make me believe he's present as a soloist all over...

Didn't notice the Lee Morgan reference (too bad Dizzy didn't have his trumpet with him anyway!), got late and I had to lower the volume when I got to the end of disc two... will have to check it out with headphones again!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

MG, sorry for not reacting to your query regarding Ammons! If you don't have much Mingus, this would hardly be a first choice to buy, but I found a used copy for an ok prize (on www.priceminister.com - you'll need some french there) and I quite enjoyed it. Also I'm not home now but to me it seemed like Ammons was quite all over the place... soloing in various numbers (freaking up at least one, where he ends his solo in the middle of a chorus), and generally turning in some of the best spots of the whole set. However, maybe it's just the strength of his three or four solos that make me believe he's present as a soloist all over...

Didn't notice the Lee Morgan reference (too bad Dizzy didn't have his trumpet with him anyway!), got late and I had to lower the volume when I got to the end of disc two... will have to check it out with headphones again!

Tried Priceminister but couldn't see it. Could you post a link, please?

MG

[king ubu]

www.priceminister.com

If it's not there it's because no one has it on offer at this time - but this is like Amazon Marketplace, things come and go, and often you find them for good prizes and shipping costs are fair as well.

[kh1958]

MG, sorry for not reacting to your query regarding Ammons! If you don't have much Mingus, this would hardly be a first choice to buy, but I found a used copy for an ok prize (on www.priceminister.com - you'll need some french there) and I quite enjoyed it. Also I'm not home now but to me it seemed like Ammons was quite all over the place... soloing in various numbers (freaking up at least one, where he ends his solo in the middle of a chorus), and generally turning in some of the best spots of the whole set. However, maybe it's just the strength of his three or four solos that make me believe he's present as a soloist all over...

Didn't notice the Lee Morgan reference (too bad Dizzy didn't have his trumpet with him anyway!), got late and I had to lower the volume when I got to the end of disc two... will have to check it out with headphones again!

I checked the expanded CD reissue and Ammons is listed as a soloist on 8 of the songs.