Max Roach Mosaic

[tranemonk]

my problem is this... The last time I caugh Roachie in person (7 or 8 years ago... ) It was with this group he called the "Asian/Beijing Trio" (something like that)... and it was an unmitigated DISASTER!!! It was SOOO Bad... It was not the first time I seen Roach but it was SO dismal that it completely put me off to this artist....

I know this is his prime stuff done fourty-fifty years before...but I just can't shake that last performance... You guys are forcing me to rethink this though....

I'm about to place my last Mosaic order for the year!!!! (And yes I did preorder the next Singles and the Ellington Set....) and I'm making some hard decisions... I'm leaning heavily (for many reasons Ron S. including those extra lbs. put on by a few too many bagels...) toward also getting the Classic Capitol Sessions and Johnny Richards Select.. and to continue my avoidance of the Roach set....

So... if YOU had to choose between the Classic Capitol and the Roach....????

[jazzbo]

I'd definitely go for the Classics over the Roach myself (and forget about the Richards set). . . . That's just me, though I have the Roach and like it, the Capitol stuff is more "esoteric" and less likely to be able to be found on cd as time goes by than all the Roach albums should you miss one of the two sets.

[BruceH]

my problem is this... The last time I caugh Roachie in person (7 or 8 years ago... ) It was with this group he called the "Asian/Beijing Trio" (something like that)... and it was an unmitigated DISASTER!!! It was SOOO Bad... It was not the first time I seen Roach but it was SO dismal that it completely put me off to this artist....

Hey, c'mon...he was elderly by then and probably ill as well. When I saw him in Cambridge, MA in the 1980's he was fantastic. And in his prime he was even better.

[kh1958]

my problem is this... The last time I caugh Roachie in person (7 or 8 years ago... ) It was with this group he called the "Asian/Beijing Trio" (something like that)... and it was an unmitigated DISASTER!!! It was SOOO Bad... It was not the first time I seen Roach but it was SO dismal that it completely put me off to this artist....

Hey, c'mon...he was elderly by then and probably ill as well. When I saw him in Cambridge, MA in the 1980's he was fantastic. And in his prime he was even better.

Same experience here--a fantastic quartet with Odean Pope, Cecil Bridgewater and Tyrone Brown--an hour long version of Scott Free was devastating.

[BruceH]

On the other hand, I'd have to go with what Jazzbo said. Although a lot depends on what kind of jazz you like most. But the Capitol set is more likely to have stuff that will remain hard-to-imossible to find for a long time. But don't avoid the Roach just because you saw him do a bad set in, like, 1999. That's like someone avoiding Parker's Dials or Savoys because they heard him once when he was strung out.

[Ron S]

my problem is this... The last time I caugh Roachie in person (7 or 8 years ago... ) It was with this group he called the "Asian/Beijing Trio" (something like that)... and it was an unmitigated DISASTER!!! It was SOOO Bad... It was not the first time I seen Roach but it was SO dismal that it completely put me off to this artist....

Hey, c'mon...he was elderly by then and probably ill as well. When I saw him in Cambridge, MA in the 1980's he was fantastic. And in his prime he was even better.

Same experience here--a fantastic quartet with Odean Pope, Cecil Bridgewater and Tyrone Brown--an hour long version of Scott Free was devastating.

I saw him in Philly in the early '90's, and he was still going strong.

[montg]

up. I'm thinking about this set for Christmas, and it hasn't been discussed in a while. SO many great players (Rollins, Dorham, Little, Mobley etc) hard to see how it could miss. But some of these sessions are out on individual CDs maybe I'd be better off just going for those?

[BFrank]

... But some of these sessions are out on individual CDs maybe I'd be better off just going for those?

You could say that about almost any Mosaic set. It depends on how much of the artist's music you want at one time, ultimately.

Of course there's also the remastering, repackaging and so forth to consider.

[sidewinder]

up. I'm thinking about this set for Christmas, and it hasn't been discussed in a while. SO many great players (Rollins, Dorham, Little, Mobley etc) hard to see how it could miss. But some of these sessions are out on individual CDs maybe I'd be better off just going for those?

I've just taken delivery of this one and I'd say - go for the set. The booklet has not only some great session photos that were completely new to me but also some recollections from Art Davis, Bob Boswell etc. of their thoughts of the sessions. The music of course is wonderful - a couple of disks of Dorham/Rollins, leading in to Little/Priester/Draper/Coleman et al. The wonderful musicality of Max Roach shines through it all.

Recommended !

[montg]

up. I'm thinking about this set for Christmas, and it hasn't been discussed in a while. SO many great players (Rollins, Dorham, Little, Mobley etc) hard to see how it could miss. But some of these sessions are out on individual CDs maybe I'd be better off just going for those?

I've just taken delivery of this one and I'd say - go for the set. The booklet has not only some great session photos that were completely new to me but also some recollections from Art Davis, Bob Boswell etc. of their thoughts of the sessions. The music of course is wonderful - a couple of disks of Dorham/Rollins, leading in to Little/Priester/Draper/Coleman et al. The wonderful musicality of Max Roach shines through it all.

Recommended !

Thanks. it's good to get some reassurance before taking the plunge.

[bertrand]

Unlike a lot of people here, I don't buy Mosaic sets by the bagful. As much as I admire their work, many considerations (financial of course, plus the fact that I find the box set an unwieldy format in general) go into play before I take the plunge. In the end, I decide based on the availability of the material elsewhere.

I ultimately bought this one because I knew Universal was not going to release most of this anytime in the near future. It was the presence of the Booker Little material that made me jump in - and this was worth the price alone.

Go for it.

Bertrand.

[JSngry]

Post-Clifford Max on Mercury is some of the very best major label/artist music that you're going to have a hard time finding w/o effort. For those who know most of the music included, the set's a "no-brainer" (as in, yeah - you're going to want to get it, it's that good).

I myself am going to wait until it hits Running Low, but I'll definitely be getting it. I've got most of the material on old Trip LPs & various Japanese issues in various formats, but what I don't have + my expectations of the total packaging make getting it the aforementioned "no-brainer". If I let it pass, it'll be one of the more stupid things I've done.

[Ron S]

I myself am going to wait until it hits Running Low, but I'll definitely be getting it.

Ditto.

[mikeweil]

I myself am going to wait until it hits Running Low, but I'll definitely be getting it.

Ditto.

... make that three ...

Edited November 18, 2006 by mikeweil

[David Ayers]

I myself am going to wait until it hits Running Low, but I'll definitely be getting it.

Ditto.

... make that three ...

I'm going to wait until it runs out then pay over the odds on ebay. It's that good!

Edited November 23, 2006 by David Ayers

[king ubu]

I myself am going to wait until it hits Running Low, but I'll definitely be getting it.

Ditto.

... make that three ...

same here!

[HolyStitt]

I guess there will be a bunch of us buying one in that last batch because I had the same game plan.

[David Ayers]

I guess there will be a bunch of us buying one in that last batch because I had the same game plan.

In fact, I have pre-ordered the whole last batch, so none of you will get a copy. See you on ebay, suckers!

[BruceH]

... But some of these sessions are out on individual CDs maybe I'd be better off just going for those?

You could say that about almost any Mosaic set. It depends on how much of the artist's music you want at one time, ultimately.

Of course there's also the remastering, repackaging and so forth to consider.

Yeah, those liner notes and the photos in those huge booklets....yum.

[six string]

Until I bought this box set, I only owned one album by Max Roach, In The Light with Odean Pope on the Soulnote label. Of course, I have many albums with him playing drums, but that was the only one I had of his own. I was totally blown away by the music. I knew from the list of musicians that it would be good, but even so, I was not prepared for the qualityof this collection. The songs, the musicianship are truly first rate. My least favorite part of the collection are the two discs with the Buddy Rich Five. It's not anything against Buddy of course, but I would have prefered listening to the program by Max's Quintet alone, although it does give you a chance to compare the differences between the two drummers. Max is such a musical drummer and this box really shows it to good effect.

Edited November 28, 2006 by six string

[street singer]

Up for some air due to the soon-to-be-OOP nature of this set...

[mikeweil]

But the project's scope was dramatically altered. With Verve it was planned to include all the Impulse recordings, the Freedom Now Suite (licensed from Candid), and the never-issued outtakes from Freedom Now which are in the possession of a private collector. The Mercury LP of Roach with the Boston Percussion Ensemble would have been included too. Also, photos would have been much more varied, rather than all from one source. But after years of no activity at all, at least it's good to have what Mosaic issued.

Mike

So why did Mosaic go for the smaller scope? Now that I've got a copy I slip in the records from other labels in the appropriate places, and it makes for a much more complete picture, of course, makes Roach's statement all the more stunning. I miss that LP with the Bostonians - where else could this be reissued? In a Mosaic Select with all M'Boom sessions?

[mikeweil]

Now what's missing that was issued on other labels?

Max - Argo, 1958

Deeds, Not Words - Riverside, 1958

Award-Winning Drummer - Time, 1959

We Insist: Freedom Now! Suite - Candid, 1960

Percussion Bitter Sweet - Impulse, 1961

It's Time - Impulse, 1962

Max Roach with the Boston Percussion Ensemble - EmArcy, 1958

Live recordings:

LA TV recording, Oct 6, 1958 - Calliope

Long As You're Living (Kaiserslautern, Feb 5, 1960) - ENJA

Paris, Feb 1960 - BYG and other issues

... and these with substantial parts of the group:

Booker Little 4 + Max Roach - United Artists, 1958

Abbey Lincoln - Abbey Is Blue - Riverside, 1959

Tommy Turrentine - Time, 1960

Booker Little and friend - Bethlehem, 1960

Abbey Lincoln, Straight Ahead - Candid, 1960

Newport Rebels sessions with Max Roach Quintet as core group - Candid, 1960

not counting those with only two of the group:

Kenny Dorham, jazz Contrasts - Riverside, 1958

Stanley Turrentine - Time, 1959 or 1960

Edited May 13, 2007 by mikeweil

[king ubu]

Just chiming in on the Beijing Trio - I saw them live in 2000 or 2001 and I was stunned. The music is clearly avantgarde and that was possibly quite a shock (or a disasters?) for people who knew the "regular" Roach (always pushing boundaries I assume, but rarely really stepping out in the field of totally free improv within the frame of his own groups).

Anyway, it was one of the most daring concerts during that whole four-day festival, part of which it was, and it came from most likely the easily oldest person to appear at that festival... I wish more of the old guys were that open-minded (Sonny R., anyone?)

//rant

now patiently waiting for this (and the Berigan) to arrive...

[Kyo]

Now what's missing that was issued on other labels?

Max - Argo, 1958

WTF?! Why isn't this included? I just sold the individual disc thinking

it would certainly be part of the box set. Damn!