Your favorite TENOR player on the scene today

[montg]

Here 't is:

I see Helen Sung is on that record (Tardy's latest on SteepleChase).

Saw her here in KC in Tardy's group - and she was on fire!! Gotta get me that one, for sure!!

I picked this up recently, some nice playing by Tardy. A killer arrangement of Wade in the Water. Rooster, if you like Helen Sung you'll really like this CD--she gets a lot of solo space throughout.

[Alexander Hawkins]

Most of the players mentioned in this thread came through Smalls some of the time, and at one time or another I've heard spectacular music from all of them. As overall artists, I'm not sure I know of anyone who excites me in the same way as--for example--Eric Dolphy did/does. And that is an interesting comparison. Because my love for Dolphy as an artist was in a combination of musical genius and poetic force. He had something to say. And the musical resources that today's artists avail themselves of have nothing over him. He's still more hip and more modern than they are. And oddly enough, I scarcely know any horn players who listen to him now and understand him. Similarly, I know almost none with anything to say.

Some of the best modern horn playing that I've heard was a product of an inspired group setting. The next subject of my label will be early recordings I made of the Omer Avital Sextet at Smalls. I think the saxophonists in this group did some of their best work in it. The early group had Mark Turner, Greg Tardy, Myron Walden, and Charles Owens in it. Over its first two years, it also featured Joel Frahm, Grant Stewart, and Jimmy Greene rotating through the saxophone line. Omer is a strong leader, and the episodic nature of his music cast his sidemen as the dramatis personae. Mark Turner was a real catalyst when he was in the band.

I would vote Chris Byars as being most like Frank Hewitt in being potentially misunderstood and vastly underrated. He was Hewitt's saxophonist and appears on Four Hundred Saturdays. His own material (and w/ Across 7 Street) is unbelievably challenging. Grant Stewart calls him "the smartest tenor player in New York". He's the only one I know who can play brilliant music over the hardest changes in the world at ~400 beats per minute. [Come to think of it, there's an MP3 on the Smalls Records site of Across 7 Street playing Ari Roland's "One For D.T.", a very fast through-composed tune, the sheet music for which is also on my site. That's the kind of solo I'm talking about. Virtually nobody makes that much effortless sense on THOSE kind of changes at THAT speed.] He's chronically underestimated by people who can't hear his tricky moves, and you can spend a long time puzzling over his resolutions. Superficially, it sounds like something else, so you have to give up the belief that you know best when you listen to it. I've listened to some of his solos hundreds of times, and they are about the only solos that stand up about as well as Frank Hewitt's. He really understood Frank, and vice-versa. [One of the only other horn players (on any horn) I would put in the same league is trombonist John Mosca.] I think Ira Gitler agreed with me. He voted Across 7 Street / Made In New York the #1 Album Of 2005 in Jazz Times, and almost nobody in the world caught a single lick off that record, and those who did didn't understand it. So the next generation of Frank Hewitts are already lined up.

Next on my underrated list is Zaid Nasser, who is technically an alto player, but really swings on tenor as well. You might recognize him as Jamil Nasser's son. He's one of my favorite after C Sharpe. If you don't know any better, it sounds like he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing. Don't believe it. It's a trap. Also one of Hewitt's regulars.

I'm very impressed by Joel Frahm's playing in the last couple of years. I think he's come into his own as an artist, and his playing is often very much worth hearing. Aside from recordings I made of him with Omer Avital, I'd like to get some of his new work.

Luke "been down in the basement so long, it looks like the penthouse to me" Kaven

Luke - that's fascinating. Am now listening to that MP3 from your site, along with the score, of 'One For DT'. Great playing.

Edit: to say, piano solo's just started. WOW! Some guy not just running the changes Herbie-style. Has heard his Bud Powell, for sure...I'm VERY impressed!

Edited December 30, 2005 by Red

[jlhoots]

Most of the players mentioned in this thread came through Smalls some of the time, and at one time or another I've heard spectacular music from all of them. As overall artists, I'm not sure I know of anyone who excites me in the same way as--for example--Eric Dolphy did/does. And that is an interesting comparison. Because my love for Dolphy as an artist was in a combination of musical genius and poetic force. He had something to say. And the musical resources that today's artists avail themselves of have nothing over him. He's still more hip and more modern than they are. And oddly enough, I scarcely know any horn players who listen to him now and understand him. Similarly, I know almost none with anything to say.

Some of the best modern horn playing that I've heard was a product of an inspired group setting. The next subject of my label will be early recordings I made of the Omer Avital Sextet at Smalls. I think the saxophonists in this group did some of their best work in it. The early group had Mark Turner, Greg Tardy, Myron Walden, and Charles Owens in it. Over its first two years, it also featured Joel Frahm, Grant Stewart, and Jimmy Greene rotating through the saxophone line. Omer is a strong leader, and the episodic nature of his music cast his sidemen as the dramatis personae. Mark Turner was a real catalyst when he was in the band.

I would vote Chris Byars as being most like Frank Hewitt in being potentially misunderstood and vastly underrated. He was Hewitt's saxophonist and appears on Four Hundred Saturdays. His own material (and w/ Across 7 Street) is unbelievably challenging. Grant Stewart calls him "the smartest tenor player in New York". He's the only one I know who can play brilliant music over the hardest changes in the world at ~400 beats per minute. [Come to think of it, there's an MP3 on the Smalls Records site of Across 7 Street playing Ari Roland's "One For D.T.", a very fast through-composed tune, the sheet music for which is also on my site. That's the kind of solo I'm talking about. Virtually nobody makes that much effortless sense on THOSE kind of changes at THAT speed.] He's chronically underestimated by people who can't hear his tricky moves, and you can spend a long time puzzling over his resolutions. Superficially, it sounds like something else, so you have to give up the belief that you know best when you listen to it. I've listened to some of his solos hundreds of times, and they are about the only solos that stand up about as well as Frank Hewitt's. He really understood Frank, and vice-versa. [One of the only other horn players (on any horn) I would put in the same league is trombonist John Mosca.] I think Ira Gitler agreed with me. He voted Across 7 Street / Made In New York the #1 Album Of 2005 in Jazz Times, and almost nobody in the world caught a single lick off that record, and those who did didn't understand it. So the next generation of Frank Hewitts are already lined up.

Next on my underrated list is Zaid Nasser, who is technically an alto player, but really swings on tenor as well. You might recognize him as Jamil Nasser's son. He's one of my favorite after C Sharpe. If you don't know any better, it sounds like he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing. Don't believe it. It's a trap. Also one of Hewitt's regulars.

I'm very impressed by Joel Frahm's playing in the last couple of years. I think he's come into his own as an artist, and his playing is often very much worth hearing. Aside from recordings I made of him with Omer Avital, I'd like to get some of his new work.

Luke "been down in the basement so long, it looks like the penthouse to me" Kaven

400 Saturdays is very cool.

Will you release more of those sessions?

Not tenor, but are you going to release any C Sharpe material?

[lkaven]

400 Saturdays is very cool.

Will you release more of those sessions?

Not tenor, but are you going to release any C Sharpe material?

As far as quintet sessions, I'm afraid that was all that we had. And it is really a shame. I would like to have been able to document some of the earlier Hewitt quintet that had Charles Davis and Joe Magnarelli on the front line. There are to be several more Frank Hewitt trio releases, though, some of which are live.

I have long had plans to release some of the C Sharpe material. What makes it difficult is that there are about 70 hours worth of cassette recordings that need to be transcribed. I need to find an intern who can do that, along with the equipment to do it. At various times I've had one or the other, but not both at the same time. The recording quality is poor on most of the C Sharpe tapes, for collectors only. But there is a wealth of material there, good evidence of how brilliant he was.

Luke

[nathan]

Bill McHenry (even more underrated than I thought, since I didn't see his name above)

also:

Chris Cheek

Phillip Greenlief

Mark Turner

Kenny Brooks (too bad he doesn't play much as a leader/jazz player these days)

Chris Speed

Donny McCaslin

Mark Shim (i just finally picked up Turbulent Flow this year, and love it)

Greg Tardy (love his work w/ Andrew Hill in particular)

Interesting to see Robert Stewart mentioned a couple times above! I used to see him all the time in SF, usually with the late Ed Kelly. Lately he's dropped off the scene a bit, and a couple of times, when I have caught him, it's been some pretty lamentable near-smooth jazz stuff. Too bad. Lots of talent!

Also, Peter Apfelbaum FINALLY has a new record out! Despite the lack of recordings, he's still very active: I saw him playing all the time when I lived in NYC a couple years ago, and he always sounded great.

Speaking of Mark Turner recommendations (way above -- I'm getting in on this late), along with the Rosenwinkel records mentioned above, I love his work with bassist/composer Reid Anderson.

nathan

Edited January 4, 2006 by nathan

[relyles]

Nudged by a friend who has fearsomely impeccable taste, I've been catching up on Grant Stewart lately -- his own quartet album "Buen Rollo" on Fresh Sound and Ryan Kisor's "This Is Ryan" on the Japanese label Video Arts, which for some strange reason has become a Ryan Kisor factory lately, cranking out no less than seven Kisor albums, counting this one. (My friend says that the other Kisor-Video Arts that includes Stewart, "Night In Tunisia," should be avoided, but that Kisor's Criss Cross with Stewart is a good one.)

In any case, what makes Stewart interesting in this retro world is that he is a good deal more retro than most but somehow doesn't sound that way in terms of spirit, freshness, etc. That is, stylistically, he sounds like he's never heard a note of Coltrane or Shorter (which is quite a trick, however one does that); instead he springs from pre-"Bridge" Rollins and, above all, Mobley. At times I also hear a touch of Wardell Gray or even the circa 1957 tenor playing of Ira Sullivan -- see the Red Rodney album "The Red Arrow," originally on Signal. I know -- to be this retro in this way and also be real and really good ought to be impossible, but Stewart (unlike so many of the compadres IMO) sounds like he's zestfully making genuine choices in the moment, not shuffling through a computer program of Dexter Gordon licks or throwing around a big warm sound as though that alone ought to be enough. (Compare, in that regard, Stewart's "Something To Live For" from "Buen Rollo" and Ari Ambrose's "Something To Live For" from "Introducing Ari Ambrose" [steeple Chase].) I'm waiting for the bottom to drop out here but so far am surprised and happy.

I was recently reminded of these comments and wondered if you had any further updates other than the disappointment with the turn toward overt Rollins on his latest Criss Cross disc. I was reminded of these comments because I included a track from Stewart's 1995 Criss Cross date, More Urban Tones on a recent blindfold test compilation I did for another bulletin board. The above comments encouraged me to check out Stewart and the 1995 date was the first thing I heard. if you have not heard it I would strongly recommend it as I think Stewart's playing on this disc is very close to your description above.

[Larry Kart]

Relyles -- It's been up and down since then for me with Stewart, but I'm still on board. I found a recent Criss Cross from him with Joe Cohn to be almost unlistenable because it was suddenly full of overt Rollins-isms -- I can't take much of that. Not because I don't like Rollins but because certain of Sonny's magniloquent burps and chortles are so totally his that you'd think it would be obvious that they can't be borrowed. On the other hand, Stewart is in very good form on two Ryan Kisor CDs -- "Awakening" (Criss Cross), rec. 2002, and "This Is Ryan" (Video Arts), rec. 2005. I also like Stewart's own "Tenor and Soul" (Video Arts), rec. 2005, though here Joe Cohn sounds rather blatant-obvious to me. Stewart also is in a good groove on the group Planet Jazz's "In Orbit" (Sharp Nine), rec. 2005, with Joe Magnarelli, Peter Bernstein, et al. playing music written by the late drummer Johnny Ellis, but there's an alternate world/retro feel to Ellis's writing and to the playing of pianist Spike Wilner and bassist Neil Miner (like "It's 1958 again, but we've got more chops than the guys who were playing this back then, so should we flaunt that or disguise it") that kind of creeps me out.

As I said before, it's the more Mobley-esque side of Stewart that attracts me, because that seems to lead him in more personal directions that his Sonny-ish side. The main thing is that he's a relaxed/vigorous maker of real, swinging melodies -- one feeding into the next and building, and with little or no sense that he drawing from a bag of licks.

[Ted O'Reilly]

I'd like to mention the Canadian tenor man Mike Murley. You're missing something if you've never heard him.

[EBrew]

Walter Smith III

Tim Warfield

Brice Winston

[sal]

Walter Smith III

Tim Warfield

Brice Winston

Great to hear from you again, Eric! I e-mailed you about a month or two ago to your jazzbrew e-mail....not sure if you still check that. Hope all is well!

[Van Basten II]

I have not real all the thread but i fear i won't be original by naming Chris Potter

[AllenLowe]

too many tenors - that's why I switched to alto -

[Jazz Kat]

This might be a bad place to mention, I don't like saxophonists that much.

[sal]

This might be a bad place to mention, I don't like saxophonists that much.

Not sure if I've ever heard these words uttered by a jazz fan before!

[Kalo]

This might be a bad place to mention, I don't like saxophonists that much.

They're just so... saxophony!

[Jazz Kat]

This might be a bad place to mention, I don't like saxophonists that much.

Not sure if I've ever heard these words uttered by a jazz fan before!

I like a limited amount of players. I love Desmond, Mulligan, Turrentine, Rollins, Mobley, etc. Just seems most players are just trying to sound like Trane so that their sound is actual no where near as good, but very unoriginal. I mainly listen to guitarists, pianists, vibists, organists, etc. Can't think of one modern tenor player at the moment I really do love.

[clifford_thornton]

Jason Gillenwater.

He's in NYC, young and on the make. Check him out!

[Big Wheel]

Also, Peter Apfelbaum FINALLY has a new record out! Despite the lack of recordings, he's still very active: I saw him playing all the time when I lived in NYC a couple years ago, and he always sounded great.

I started a thread about this amazing record a few months back and it died a quick death. (I think Apfelbaum's real brilliance is as a composer more than a saxophonist, though.) Nobody else has heard this?

[Shannon Dickey]

Was on the liner notes to the Stan Getz/Albert Daily LP,

in which Getz recounted a story about how Albert couldn't stand Sax players...

and this conversation took place in Stan's car, w/ Albert sitting in the passenger seat

(dead man's seat)!!

I really do seem to recall that. Was it on the "POETRY" LP?

Help me out, somebody....

----

HB

[Chuck Nessa]

too many tenors - that's why I switched to alto -

I would hope something inside dictated that, not the competition.

[Van Basten II]

On the Montreal scene we have a fine tenor sax player called André Leroux, check him out if you visit the city.

[Cyril]

too many tenors - that's why I switched to alto -

Abraham Burton!!! (on tenor & alto)

[robviti]

I like a limited amount of players. I love Desmond, Mulligan, Turrentine, Rollins, Mobley, etc. Just seems most players are just trying to sound like Trane so that their sound is actual no where near as good, but very unoriginal. I mainly listen to guitarists, pianists, vibists, organists, etc. Can't think of one modern tenor player at the moment I really do love.

maybe that's because you're not listening to modern players, but to people who are emulating a classic sound that's 50 years old. try listening to "newer" music that's not so heavily based on conventional times and harmonies, and i bet you'll begin to hear some artists who are quite original and enjoyable.

[Jazz Kat]

I'm just sick of the fucking honkers and loud ass painful sounding saxophonists out there. It's like all they listen to are saxophonists, and they don't know a thing about beauty.

[melvsax]

Not sure if he's under 50......Jimmy Halperin.

I've been listening a bit to -

Tony Malaby

Mark Turner

Bill McHenry

Chis Cheek