John B Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 (edited) I was going to post my thought on Air in the Funny Rat thread, but decided to try to expand my horizons a bit and see if a few more people would join in the conversation. I brought in the three Air discs I own (Air Time (Nessa) Live Air (Black Saint) and Air Mail (Black Saint)) to work today. This is fantastic music and it is a shame that their albums are so hard to find these days. Perhaps Mosaic will do a "complete Air" set one day but, until then, I won't be holding my breath. I've been very impressed by the Threadgill I have heard, but have never made an effort to track down a lot of his back catalog. I bought Air Time from Chuck, adding it to an order because I was curious about Air. I was very impressed and jumped at the opportunity to grab Live and Air Mail from DMG during a sale they had a while back. Other than that, I haven't had a chance to hear any of their other albums So, anyone care to chime in with what Air discs are "must-hears?" Anyone ever have a chance to see them live, back in the day? Edited October 1, 2004 by John B Quote
JohnS Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 Great band. Fortunately I had the opportunity to see them live on two occasions in London. Ragtime on the baritone at one of the concerts. Plus the hubcap wall (thanks Chuck for pointing out that the hubcap phone is somethimng different). All their records are worth having but I wouldn't like to pick a favourite. I liked New Air less, not quite the same on record at least. Quote
couw Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 the very first Air I picked up was 80° below '82 on Antilles. It's on CD (Japan) and I bought it on a whim and because I recognised Threadgill's name from 'nuff 'nuff (which I had on tape) and it pretty much impressed me. I'll need to play it again. Has this ever been out on domestic CD? Quote
JSngry Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 I think I have every Air album (as well as every Threadgill album). If not all, then darn close to it. Henry's a modern giant. Air was one of the greatest bands of its time. I think you'd have to consider them for the "all time" list, that's how strong (and significant) they were. The two Black Saint New Air albums get high props from me, as do AIR TIME, the aforementioned Antilles album and the Arista/Novus OPEN AIR SUITE. The last one in particular is "above and beyond". Really, though, if you dig Air/Threadgill at all, I think it wuld be safe to adopt a "buy on sight" rule. I have, and have yet to be disappointed. Quote
kdd Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 Love this band. I think they might be the most important jazz band of the '70s (late '70s at least). Open Air Suite is my favorite then 80° below '82. Tragically both Hopkins and McCall are no longer with us. Quote
BFrank Posted October 2, 2004 Report Posted October 2, 2004 One not mentioned is "Montreux Suisse Air" on Novus from 1978. Basically, it's hard to pick a "best" one - they're ALL good! Quote
JSngry Posted October 2, 2004 Report Posted October 2, 2004 Anybody have any commetns on the switch from McCall to AkLaff? Personally, I feel that although AkLaff was/is a great drummer, that it became a different band with a different dynamic when McCall passed (well, actually it did that literally - went from Air to New Air), and that Henry might not have been ready to reinvent the wheel, so to speak, and moved on to the Sextet relatively quickly. But I sure like those two Black Saint sides by New Air. Quote
SEK Posted October 2, 2004 Report Posted October 2, 2004 I loved McCall. When AkLaff came into Air, he brought a sometimes almost rock dynamic to the band. I really like their album, "Live At Montreal International Jazz Festival". AkLaff had already participated in the Henry Threadgill Sextet's earliest sessions prior to the New Air recordings and played on most of the Sextet's other recordings as well. I had become acquainted with Pheroan AkLaff's drumming on Oliver Lake's records, starting in 1976, with "Holding Together" (which was also my first exposure to the artistry of Oliver Lake). AkLaff continued to play on my favorite Lake recordings into the '90s. Other favorite AkLaff sessions include Marty Ehrlich's first record "The Welcome", Leo Smith's "Spirit Catcher", and James Newton's "African Flower". There was also a solo record that AkLaff made early on that I liked a lot, but I haven't had or heard it in many years. Quote
.:.impossible Posted October 2, 2004 Report Posted October 2, 2004 I've really enjoyed listening to this band. I haven't pursued many of their albums yet, because the Nessa album made such an impression on me. I'm always amazed at the Hopkins/McCall relationship. John, we did a thread on this album for an album of the week way back. Here's the thread if you want to read more about what people had to say about Air Time. Quote
Tom Storer Posted October 2, 2004 Report Posted October 2, 2004 I have two or three Air albums on vinyl but I'm not sure just which ones. The usual suspects, in any case. I haven't had a turntable for a while now. I saw them in concert twice, with McCall. Great, great group. I like Aklaff quite a bit, but as Jim says, he has a much different sensibility. McCall swung like a motherfucker. Not that Aklaff "doesn't swing" - to say that on a jazz board would be tantamount to challenging him to a duel. Nonetheless, McCall had that old-time, teasing, sensual, syncopated thing deep in him, even when playing on the cutting edge of modern music, and Aklaff is just, well, younger, I guess. Not a reproach, just a statement of what I heard as the big difference between them. I really dug Threadgill up through the seven-person sextet, and saw them live too. Also saw McCall in a David Murray trio with Fred Hopkins... that was pretty tasty. More recent stuff doesn't thrill me as much, partly because I just can't get into those guitarists. His more recent music that I've heard strikes me as less memorable, more meandering, I don't know... also I wish he'd play less flute. But hey, he's the artist. Quote
ajf67 Posted October 2, 2004 Report Posted October 2, 2004 Thanks for starting this thread, and for everyone's comments. I'm new to Air. My introduction was by a recent puirchase of Air Time from Chuck. I really like it, but haven't listed to it enough times to really analyze why. On the basis of that, I recently purchased Montreaux Suisse and Open Air Suit and am looking forward to giving them many repeated listenings. Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted October 2, 2004 Report Posted October 2, 2004 (edited) Don't think anyone has mentioned the 2 (Japanese) Why Not dates, Air Song and Air Raid. These are well recorded, beautifully played dates. India Navigation reissued them in the US. I'm more than "happy" Threadgill renamed the band after Steve McCall was ousted. It was a different band. BTW, I'm with Sangrey about all of Threadgill's music. For me he's one of a number of guys (in Chicago) in the '60s & '70s creating their own "musical world". Roscoe, Braxton, Henry and Leo Smith all created something really personal and they all continue. We have Muhal to thank for the "atmosphere" and more for these creations. Edited October 2, 2004 by Chuck Nessa Quote
Lazaro Vega Posted October 3, 2004 Report Posted October 3, 2004 Recently did a program on Air and flew together Ornette Coleman's "Mind and Time" with Sonny doing "It's All Right With Me" (for velocity) and "No. 2" on "Air Time" from Nessa. That really spoke to me -- the Coleman/Rollins contraction of approaches in Threadgill's sax at the time, and the incredible interdependancy of the group concept, the way they'd slide off into a seemingly from out of nowhere accelerando within a high energy melody-rhythm based improv, or during a melody-rhythm based section let those two elements vie for primacy in the performance, creating a sense of daring do, or something like a musical elements horse race that appears to be "out" but is in fact occuring within structure. (This is all from hearing "No. 2" recently: I've yet to segue "No. 2" with Threadgill's later "Paper Toilet" or "Salute to the Enema Bandit" but that is another story). "Subtraction" is a different trip all together, and "I'll Be Right Here Waiting" sounds like something for Mario Lanza! Really, that IS operatic. I can imagine some sad barrell chested fella with a boot on the brass rail turning another shot glass upside down while singing it at his reflection in the silver tinted mirror behind the bar. Or something more scruffy. Tradition? These guys began by playing Joplin. Interpretive (sp) views of the tradition have gone out of (or been drowned under) style in favor of re-interpretation, yet this band reminds us of how tradition includes so many different circles that were drawn out away from functional harmony that should have, by now, been recaptured by the music's mainstream. I know, Chuck, don't even get you started. In any case, the more I heard Air the other evening -- and there's one of those great AACM-type crescendo pieces in "Keep Right On Playing Through The Mirror Over the Water" (Ravel in the Southside '60's) -- the more I liked this band over Very Very Circus, or the string band, etc. that Mr. Threadgill has been up to lately. Not that those are bad bands, I like 'em, but just that this group with McCall was a GREAT band. DeWars anyone? (Remember Threadgill in those print ads?) Quote
ajf67 Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 Recently did a program on Air and flew together Ornette Coleman's "Mind and Time" with Sonny doing "It's All Right With Me" (for velocity) and "No. 2" on "Air Time" from Nessa. That really spoke to me -- the Coleman/Rollins contraction of approaches in Threadgill's sax at the time, and the incredible interdependancy of the group concept, the way they'd slide off into a seemingly from out of nowhere accelerando within a high energy melody-rhythm based improv, or during a melody-rhythm based section let those two elements vie for primacy in the performance, creating a sense of daring do, or something like a musical elements horse race that appears to be "out" but is in fact occuring within structure. (This is all from hearing "No. 2" recently: I've yet to segue "No. 2" with Threadgill's later "Paper Toilet" or "Salute to the Enema Bandit" but that is another story). "Subtraction" is a different trip all together, and "I'll Be Right Here Waiting" sounds like something for Mario Lanza! Really, that IS operatic. I can imagine some sad barrell chested fella with a boot on the brass rail turning another shot glass upside down while singing it at his reflection in the silver tinted mirror behind the bar. Or something more scruffy. Tradition? These guys began by playing Joplin. Interpretive (sp) views of the tradition have gone out of (or been drowned under) style in favor of re-interpretation, yet this band reminds us of how tradition includes so many different circles that were drawn out away from functional harmony that should have, by now, been recaptured by the music's mainstream. I know, Chuck, don't even get you started. In any case, the more I heard Air the other evening -- and there's one of those great AACM-type crescendo pieces in "Keep Right On Playing Through The Mirror Over the Water" (Ravel in the Southside '60's) -- the more I liked this band over Very Very Circus, or the string band, etc. that Mr. Threadgill has been up to lately. Not that those are bad bands, I like 'em, but just that this group with McCall was a GREAT band. DeWars anyone? (Remember Threadgill in those print ads?) Nice post LV. Thanks for that insight. I still haven't listed to this one enough yet, but I get what you are saying. I've found in my so-far too few listens to Air Time (I just recently bought it) that I have been able to sense just what you are talking about more so than I have been in my first experiences with other "out" artists or groups. I hate to use "out" or other similar limiting or pigeon-holing terms, but you know what I mean. Also, I'm glad this thread got started and that it isn't buried in the Funny Rat thread. I'm not trying to crap on the Rat thread, at all. I have visited there several times and enjoy it (but have yet to post there for some reason). There is a ton in there. But, I find it hard to navigate or get a sustained sense of discussion about particular artists. Having a separate one about Air is welcome. Quote
JSngry Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 DeWars anyone? (Remember Threadgill in those print ads?) YES! But I had forgotten what the product was. Thanks for the jog! Quote
Lazaro Vega Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 "Clink clink clink, house boy or stud? clink clink clink." Oh wait, that's another movie, and another whisjeskey. The Funny Rat thread. Have heard of the "Dried Rat Dog" by Brotzmann and Hamid Drake, but not the Funny Rat thread. Quote
Clunky Posted July 5, 2008 Report Posted July 5, 2008 Just received a mint copy of Open Air Suit- very fine indeed, great sound too, right up there with Air Time . Any comments on the Live at Montreux Suisse date ? Quote
David Gitin Posted July 5, 2008 Report Posted July 5, 2008 I recall one gig in particular from 1977 or 1978 at Keystone Korner in San Francisco where AIR performed. The opening act that night, first gig in a club, was ROVA. Terrific night! Quote
tkeith Posted July 5, 2008 Report Posted July 5, 2008 I love all Air, and all configurations of the band. I think my favorite is Air Lore, but there are probably sentimental reasons why -- it was my introduction to the band. I got to see 2/3 of air with Andrew Cyrille on drums. It was Threadgill's trio, but not Air; still, it was great music and I feel lucky to have experienced it. Quote
Guy Berger Posted July 5, 2008 Report Posted July 5, 2008 I have Air Time and Live Air. I like both but prefer the live album, which is amazing. First time posting via mobile! Quote
clifford_thornton Posted July 6, 2008 Report Posted July 6, 2008 First time posting via mobile! Get back to driving. Quote
Captain Hate Posted July 6, 2008 Report Posted July 6, 2008 Good to see a thread for one of my favorite groups: Air Song was one of my earlier purchases of this type of music that is one of the more approachable recordings for a noob. The intricacies of the compositions were mesmerizing as were the solos (Hopkins first long solo on the first side was probably the first bass one that held my interest the whole way through multiple plays). I unfortunately never had a chance to see the group and agree that adding ak Laff (who is a cousin of a person I used to work with) made a slight group name change advisable. Everything I subsequently heard from the group (including some excellent concert boots) added another facet to the entity of the group and was most welcome. Like Tom Storer, I had a *lot* on vinyl that I no longer have an ability to play, that I wish was available in cd because I'm sure my ears would now hear them somewhat differently (ie. finding additional things to enjoy). Quote
AndrewHill Posted July 6, 2008 Report Posted July 6, 2008 I love all Air, and all configurations of the band. I think my favorite is Air Lore, but there are probably sentimental reasons why -- it was my introduction to the band. I got to see 2/3 of air with Andrew Cyrille on drums. It was Threadgill's trio, but not Air; still, it was great music and I feel lucky to have experienced it. I was just talking about Air in the Threadgill thread; I completely forgot that there was an Air thread, so this has been fun tor read. I recently scored a copy of Air Lore about a month ago and Live Air a week before that. Air Lore is an album that I wouldn't expect Air to make but I am really enjoying it. Air Time though, is still my favorite and Air/Threadgill are major assets to this music and Threadgill is probably making some of the most creative music today. Great great stuff. Quote
Captain Hate Posted July 6, 2008 Report Posted July 6, 2008 Air Lore is an album that I wouldn't expect Air to make but I am really enjoying it. Subject to Chuck Nessa correcting me, I believe that Air started by playing a lot of ragtime songs in concert. Quote
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