Guest akanalog Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 hello. does anyone have any recommendations of "off the beaten path" albums? i am thinking mostly of OJCs in particular because there is so much out there...though non-OJCs are ok too. as an example of what i mean-i was just listening to johnny griffin's "a change of pace" which is off the beaten path because of the interesting instrumentation (sax, french horn, two basses, drums) and too me, it is much different (and more compelling) than much of the rest of griffin's output.... i guess another example might be blakey's two OJCs (a child's dance and whatever the other one is which i have not heard) because they have some trappings of fusion, unlike the rest of blakey's more traditional output... i guess a non OJC rec would be herbie mann's "stone flute" which is sort of a weird dark trippy album which doesn't sound like anything else mann has done. or another would be kirk's "i talk to spirits" because it is his only album on flute and it has a different "vibe" (at least to me) than most of the rest of his work. so any recommendations are very welcome and i am sorry if this is confusing. i guess i mean albums by artists which have that "something" which makes them different and perhaps more interesting than what we expect from the artists in question. Quote
Jim R Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 Nice idea for a topic. A few OJC's, and a few that just popped into my head... Cannonball - Alabama Concierto Ray Brown - Jazz Cello Kenny Burrell - Weaver Of Dreams Coltrane - Interplay / 2 Trumpets, 2 Tenors Lou Donaldson - Lush Life (aka Sweet Slumber) Curtis Fuller And Hampton Hawes With French Horns Benny Golson - Take A Number From 1 to 10 Grant Green - The Latin Bit J.J. Johnson / Joe Pass - We'll Be Together Again Quote
Matthew Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 One I really enjoy that doesn't seem to get much play is Clark Terry: Serenade to a Bus Seat. How can you go wrong with a line-up like Johnny Griffin, Wynton Kelly, Paul Chambers, and Philly Joe Jones? Nice, straight ahead jazz. Quote
Alon Marcus Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 (edited) Whitestone by Joe Pass fits in this category. Nothing to do with the usual swing/bebop style that he plays. It's a pop/fusion record with Latin grooves and smooth Santana like vocals. Never, before or after, Joe walked that path. Don Grusin's presence explains a lot in that mystery. Edited October 1, 2004 by ztrauq22 Quote
Nate Dorward Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 I've always been curious about that Dizzy Gillespie album with JJ Johnson charts which I gather is much further "out" than anything else Diz did. Available briefly as a Verve limited edition. Maybe someone can describe it further & whether it fits into the remit here. The album with Mal Waldron tunes also sounds kinda interesting & improbable. Derek Bailey's Ballads & Mirakle might be good "avant" choices (the first has gobbets of old standards on it, the other a harmolodic funk band) Georg Graewe's Monk album (which despite a little heavyhanded drumming by Michael Vatcher is pretty great). For some reason lots of people seem to hate Bill Evans' Interplay, his least typical session for Riverside (there's also the companion Loose Blues, which was a problem-ridden session but is also worth hearing). Me, I like Interplay a lot. Scofield's collab with Mark Anthony Turnage--Scorched I believe is the name. Frisell & Evan Parker on Gavin Bryars' After the Requiem. Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 i was just listening to johnny griffin's "a change of pace" which is off the beaten path because of the interesting instrumentation (sax, french horn, two basses, drums) and too me, it is much different (and more compelling) than much of the rest of griffin's output.... Just wanted to say how much I love this album (Griffin's "Change of Pace"). Really an eye-opener for me, and it's easily the best Johnny Griffin album I've yet heard (though I haven't heard that many). Two thumbs up!!! Quote
RDK Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 For Blue Note, I'd consider Mobley's "A Slice Of the Top" rather "offbeat" due to its instrumentation. As for the Verve Elites, I haven't heard it but I suspect the Lalo Schifren "De Sade" disc would qualify... Quote
Big Al Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 A great idea for a thread indeed! How about Antonio Carlos Jobim's Urubu? This is almost anti-bossa-nova. You have to let yourself be immersed in this music; otherwise, it may come across as bad classical music or overorchestrated movie music. BUT, once this music takes hold, you find yourself being drawn in, mesmerized, and taken to lands you only dream of. At least, that's what happens to me! Jim R may concur! Quote
king ubu Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 I've always been curious about that Dizzy Gillespie album with JJ Johnson charts which I gather is much further "out" than anything else Diz did. Available briefly as a Verve limited edition. Maybe someone can describe it further & whether it fits into the remit here. The album with Mal Waldron tunes also sounds kinda interesting & improbable. Not sure it's "off the beaten path" - Dizzy made so many recordings in varying settings, however, it's a great disc! Certainly one of my favourite of Dizzy's - he's soaring, and the writing by J.J. is something else. Which is the album of Waldron tunes, Nate? ubu Quote
mikeweil Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 i was just listening to johnny griffin's "a change of pace" which is off the beaten path because of the interesting instrumentation (sax, french horn, two basses, drums) and too me, it is much different (and more compelling) than much of the rest of griffin's output.... Just wanted to say how much I love this album (Griffin's "Change of Pace"). Really an eye-opener for me, and it's easily the best Johnny Griffin album I've yet heard (though I haven't heard that many). Two thumbs up!!! A great idea for a thread! If you dig the Johnny Griffin Change of Pace album, which is among my favourites, you would probably like his 1990's Antilles CD Dance of Passion with trombone and frenchhorn, although it is not as startling as the former. Quote
mikeweil Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 (edited) i guess another example might be blakey's two OJCs (a child's dance and whatever the other one is which i have not heard) because they have some trappings of fusion, unlike the rest of blakey's more traditional output... Anthenagin is the title of the companion CD (both on Prestige twofers, not OJC). Actually this was in part Blakey's working band of the time. Less fusion than some African percussion drenched jam session faintly resonant of Bitches Brew - there are not too many electric pianos on Blakey albums! I think he was in the mood at the time - he took a band with Jeremy Steig, George Cables, Stanley Clarke, 2 hand drummers and sometimes Tony Williams (!) as second drummer on a world tour at the time (see Mike Fitzgerald's Messengers chronology for details - but I remember that cast playing at J.E. Berendt's jazz festival at the olympics in Munich that was broadcast on TV). Edited October 1, 2004 by mikeweil Quote
mikeweil Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 Blue Mitchell's Smooth As The Wind could fit into that category (Riverside/OJC) - his only album with strings and brass orchestra, but musically very successful and a great foil for his lyrical playing. Quote
sidewinder Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 I've always been curious about that Dizzy Gillespie album with JJ Johnson charts which I gather is much further "out" than anything else Diz did. Available briefly as a Verve limited edition. Maybe someone can describe it further & whether it fits into the remit here. Georg Graewe's Monk album (which despite a little heavyhanded drumming by Michael Vatcher is pretty great). For some reason lots of people seem to hate Bill Evans' Interplay, his least typical session for Riverside (there's also the companion Loose Blues, which was a problem-ridden session but is also worth hearing). Me, I like Interplay a lot. Scofield's collab with Mark Anthony Turnage--Scorched I believe is the name. Frisell & Evan Parker on Gavin Bryars' After the Requiem. This was the Gillespie 'Perceptions' album, released as part of the Verve Elite Edition series and which went OOP pretty quickly. Definitely fits into the remit of this thread - very much a 'third stream' feel to the arrangements with lots of heavy brass. Hindemith and Copland influence to some of the orchestral sounds. Incidentally, a couple of the tracks were revisited by JJ in his 'The Brass Orchestra' CD for Verve and Joe Wilder is featured on both albums. I think the JJ also possibly qualifies for inclusion in this thread too. Quote
sidewinder Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 (edited) Getting quite esoteric but how about the Keith Jarrett ECM 'Hymns/Spheres' (recorded on a Bavarian Baroque organ in a Bennedictine Abbey ) and also the 2LP he did of Clavichord Music. Both intriguing and strange releases, even by Jarrett's standards. I think 'Hymns/Spheres' was recorded just before the 'Sun Bear' mammoth LP set, so he was on an esoteric roll at this time... In fact I was just listening to side 1 of 'Hymns/Spheres' this morning and the room started resonating with volume cranked up when he pulled out the stops Edited October 1, 2004 by sidewinder Quote
king ubu Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 As we're talking third stream now, these are two fantastic discs that went under my radar for much too long: Sony/Legacy 1996 This includes the LP with the cover above, as well as two thirds of the second (not sure, maybe the first, and the following cover was the first...) "Modern Jazz Society presents..." album, with fantastic music by the likes of J.J., Mingus, George Russell, George Lewis, Jimmy Giuffre, and Gunther Schuller. Soloists include Miles and Joe Wilder on the "Birth of..." part, the other LP includes many of the fine musicians that grouped around Russell in those days, Bill Evans (fantastic on "All About Rosie"!), Hal McKusick etc. Then there's this one here, another Verve Elite Edition CD (from 1999, OOP): I think this was the first of the "Modern Jazz Society presents..." albums. Lots of good stuff, J.J., Getz, Aaron Sachs, Tony Scott, Lucky Thompson... not a large band/orchestra this time, but just as fascinating music, in my opinion. ubu Quote
David Ayers Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 The tracks with Ornette are on the Ornette box. There may have been a short-lived (Japanese?) CD of this but I'm not sure. Quote
king ubu Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 David, that's yet another album! I only have the tracks in the Ornette box, but I guess this would be nice to have in complete form! Here's a link to the Collectables reissue. ubu Quote
David Ayers Posted October 1, 2004 Report Posted October 1, 2004 (edited) I'm glad to see the whole is on CD. Schuller also has several jazz influenced classical pieces, most of which I have never heard, although I have an LP of Seven Studies on Themes of Paul Klee which is good if not overwhelming. There are (I think) two Schuller compositions on the LP released as Vintage Dolphy. I listened to them again a few months ago but found them unconvincing. Edited October 1, 2004 by David Ayers Quote
Nate Dorward Posted October 3, 2004 Report Posted October 3, 2004 Yeah the Schuller tracks on Vintage Dolphy are a bit dull; not nearly as good as the versions with Ornette. There's a messy but entertaining encore on there too, a jam on "Donna Lee" which has Dolphy & Don Ellis sparring--worth hearing. But really, the only remarkable music on Vintage Dolphy are the three live tracks with Ed Armour. I think the Gillespie-plays-Waldron album was called The Cool World. It was a film score I believe. Lee Konitz's career is full of oddities, of course--e.g. he's on albums with Derek Bailey, John Zorn, Elvis Costello & Anthony Braxton (the Bruback disc which turned up on BFT17); there's that excellent French Impressionist disc; &c. I'm actually rather fond of Once, the Company album with Konitz, Bailey, Teitelbaum, Barre Phillips, &c.--the sound is rather hissy & documentary but the performances are quite effective. It even has an episode of Konitz playing drums. One oddity I like a lot--One Night in Washington with the Band with Charlie Parker as featured guest. Also the album of Django Reinhardt sitting in with a US army band. Incidentally, I have always been warned that Bill Evans' 1970s big band collabs (a return bout with George Russell, & the one called if memory serves Symbiosis) were pretty awful. Anyone heard these & care to report back? Jackie McLean's New & Old Gospel perhaps deserves a mention--surely the only album with Ornette Coleman as a sideman exclusively on trumpet? That Birth of the 3rd Stream reissue is terrific, but I wish they'd not dropped tracks. I've never heard the Milton Babbitt piece, for instance. But it's a great disc if for nothing else having such an unusual Mingus track, some of Miles's least typical work, & the great "All About Rosie" (nowadays probably a less familiar track than the Gerry Mulligan reading). Quote
.:.impossible Posted October 3, 2004 Report Posted October 3, 2004 A couple of OJCs that might be off the beaten path: The Arrival of Victor Feldman f. Scott LaFaro .:. This was LaFaro's first recording (that's what the liners claim anyway) and Stan Levey played kit. Feldman goes between piano and vibes. "Bebop" is played at an incredible tempo. LaFaro is fully formed at 1958 and his bass is thankfully up in the mix. Cannonball Adderley The Quintet Plus .:. Feldman plays piano on three tracks, vibes on the rest, and Wynton Kelly sits in on piano for those tracks! Nat Adderley, Sam Jones, and Louis Hayes fill it out. Feldman brought "New Delhi" to the session. What a great tune. Quote
Jim R Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 Cannonball Adderley The Quintet Plus .:. Feldman plays piano on three tracks, vibes on the rest, and Wynton Kelly sits in on piano for those tracks! Nat Adderley, Sam Jones, and Louis Hayes fill it out. Feldman brought "New Delhi" to the session. What a great tune. Yeah- a very nice album that was discussed in the AOTW forum earlier this year: Cannonball - Quintet Plus Quote
king ubu Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 Yeah the Schuller tracks on Vintage Dolphy are a bit dull; not nearly as good as the versions with Ornette. There's a messy but entertaining encore on there too, a jam on "Donna Lee" which has Dolphy & Don Ellis sparring--worth hearing. But really, the only remarkable music on Vintage Dolphy are the three live tracks with Ed Armour. I will have to look for that "Vintage Dolphy" disc! Difficult to find? I think the Gillespie-plays-Waldron album was called The Cool World. It was a film score I believe. That one IS good, I wasn't sure you were talking of this. It was out on a twofer on Verve/Phillips, "The Cool World/Dizzy goes Hollywood", two very nice albums of one of Dizzy's best bands, the one with James Moody and Kenny Barron. Jackie McLean's New & Old Gospel perhaps deserves a mention--surely the only album with Ornette Coleman as a sideman exclusively on trumpet? I love it! That Birth of the 3rd Stream reissue is terrific, but I wish they'd not dropped tracks. I've never heard the Milton Babbitt piece, for instance. But it's a great disc if for nothing else having such an unusual Mingus track, some of Miles's least typical work, & the great "All About Rosie" (nowadays probably a less familiar track than the Gerry Mulligan reading). Same here, but I'd ratehr have at least four of those six tracks instead of waiting for a reissue that never happens... It seems there's an alternate take of "All About Rosie" on this CD: I'm not sure if this one has only been released long after the actual recordings took place, but if not, if it was out on LP back in the day, it certainly fits the topic of this thread, as well (I don't yet own it, though). ubu Quote
brownie Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 Off the beaten path: Roots by the Prestige All Stars (still available on OJC). This musicians' gathering - all stars all (from A like Adams, Pepper to W like Watkins, Doug) - get spiritual on material that includes 'Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child' and 'Down by the Riverside'. Featured players include Idrees Suliemann, Frank Rehak, Jimmy Cleveland, Bill Evans, Tommy Flanagan). Beautifully different playing from all concerned. Quote
Kevin Bresnahan Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 "Focus" by Stan Getz is the most unusual "with strings" session I've ever heard. BTW, it has also long been one of my favorites. Later, Kevin Quote
king ubu Posted October 4, 2004 Report Posted October 4, 2004 "Focus" by Stan Getz is the most unusual "with strings" session I've ever heard. BTW, it has also long been one of my favorites. Later, Kevin Oh yes! What a great disc! Getz also did that "Voices" album, released on this nice (but not essential, I think) twofer: The first album included fits the topic of the thread as well. There's some more on this 2CD set: And here's our friend Nate Dorward's review. ubu Quote
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