Norman Granz Jam Sessions box set

[jazzbo]

Just posted this information in another thread, but this set deserves one of its own.

Due out November 9! Pretty darn good preorder price at cduniverse too!

48.99!

Complete Norman Granz Jam Sessions

[RDK]

Five discs?

[jazzbo]

Looks to me as if there's nothing extra, and they're not LOADED discs (two jams per disc on four discs, on on the last. . . .

At least they're at a good price here. . . .

[sal]

I'm not familiar with this material. Can someone share some background info? Players, history, anything like that??

Edited September 30, 2004 by sal

[Brad]

Yes, that would be helpful. I can't find anything on that ridiculous Verve web site.

[jazzbo]

Well, they were studio jams that were similar in some ways to the JATP on stage jams. Usually long selections with stars of the Granz stable combined. 1 and 2 were the great alto player jams (Hodges, Parker et al), 3 and 4 had Basie at the keys and players such as DeFranco and Getz and Gray and Smith and Jones, etc. Most of the really good guys that Granz produced had a turn here or there. As a body of work it's quite interesting and impressive. . . some volumes better than others of course, but I've been waiting for a nice package like this for some time!

[couw]

so there's

Jam Session #1 & #2

Charlie Parker, Benny Carter, Johnny Hodges (alto saxophone); Flip Phillips, Ben Webster (tenor saxophone); Charlie Shavers (trumpet); Oscar Peterson (piano); Barney Kessel (guitar); Ray Brown (bass); J.C. Heard (drums).

Hollywood June, 1952.

1. Jam Blues

2. What Is This Thing Called Love

3. Ballad Medley: All The Things You Are / Dearly Beloved / Nearness Of You, The / I'll Get By / Everything Happens To Me / Man I Love, The / What's New / Someone To Watch Over Me / Isn't It Romantic

4. Funky Blues

Jam Session #3 & #4

Harry "Sweets" Edison (tp); Benny Carter, Willie Smith (as); Buddy DeFranco (cl); Wardell Gray, Stan Getz (ts); Count Basie (p on 1 & 2, org only on 3); Arnold Ross (p on 3 & 4); Freddie Green (g); John Simmons (b); Buddy Rich (d).

Hollywood, August 3, 1953

1. Apple Jam

2. Oh Lady be good

3. Blues for the Count

4. Ballad Medley: Indian Summer - Willow Weep For Me - If I Had You - A Ghost Of A Chance - Love Walked In - Sophisticated Lady - Nancy - I Hadn't Anyone Till You

Jam Session #5 (1,2), #7 (3,4) & #8 (5,6)

Roy Eldridge (tp) Dizzy Gillespie (tp 3,4,5,6) Johnny Hodges (as) Illinois Jacquet, Flip Phillips, Ben Webster (ts) Lionel Hampton (vib) Oscar Peterson (p) Ray Brown (b) Buddy Rich (d)

NYC, September 2, 1953

1. Jamming For Clef

2. Rose Room

3. Blue Lou

4. Just You, Just Me

5. Jam BLues

6. Ballad Medley

Jam Session #6 (1,2) & #9 (3,4)

Roy Eldridge, Dizzy Gillespie (tp) Bill Harris (tb) Buddy DeFranco (cl) Flip Phillips (ts) Oscar Peterson (p) Herb Ellis (g) Ray Brown (b) Louis Bellson (d)

NYC, October 30, 1954

1. Stompin' at the Savoy, Pt. 1

2. Stompin' at the Savoy, Pt. 2

3. Funky Blues No. 2

4. Lullaby in Rhythm

right?

(please do correct this stuff!)

Edited October 1, 2004 by couw

[Matthew]

I'm excited about this one. I love my JATP box set -- I don't know, there's just something fun about this music. Guess I'm a sucker for these kind of things.

[montg]

Are these on par in terms of quality with the Columbia Buck Clayton jam sessions?(the only comparison I have to go by)

[Brad]

Couw,

Thanks. Where did you get this from. On line?

[P.D.]

5cds is overdoing it a bit ( we've discussed this before)

The music would fit onto 3cds..

There were four sessions in total, that were released as 9lps. Some of the tracks are short in time .. 8 or 11 mins, but each were issued as full lp sides.

The first session had

Charlie Shavers, Charlie Parker, Benny Carter, Johnny Hodges, Flip Phillips, Ben Webster, Oscar Peterson, Barney Kessel, Ray Brown and J.C. Heard

This is the Funky Blues set that produce 4 tracks ( 3 pieces plus a ballad medeley) that has been reissued often in Charlie Parker compilations.

Also recently on a Past Perfect Cd available from Daedalus for about $6.00

The second date. LP sessions 3 & 4 are commonly referred to as the Basie sets.

Harry Edison, Buddy DeFranco, Willie Smith, Benny Carter, Waqrdell Gray, Stan Getz, Basie, Freddie Green, John Simmons and Buddy Rich

Again 4 tracks one of which is again a Ballad set.

Basie plays organ on one track and Arnold Ross joins in on piano.

Basie sits out on the ballads leaving the piano to Ross

Ocium put this out recently.. the first CD release ( Japanese disclaimer..)

The next session produced four pieces plus another ballad set ( did Norman create that concept.. he certainly liked it..?

Roy Eldridge, Johnny Hodges , Ben Webster, Illinois Jacquet, Flip Phillips, Lionel Hampyom, Oscar Peterson, Ray Brown and Buddy Rich

do two tunes and then Dizzy Gillespie joins in for the rest

Ocium put the tracks without Dizzy on a CD that they filled out with Jazz Studio One a great record but totaly unrelated to the Granz sets

The last session

Diz, Roy, Bill Harris, Buddy DeFranco, Flip Phillips with Oscar, Ray and Louis Bellson cut three pieces

A long Stompin' at the Savoy , which was split into two pieces and issued as two sides of a single LP.

The track however can comfortably be fit into the 20 mins that became something of a standard later. A British reissue of this track, re-spliced the parts together.. quite well.. I see by the verve list that it is offered in two parts.. I wonder if verve had the original tapes and are giving us an unedited performance, or are they just LPr'ing it here.. I hope not.

the music is typical of JATP, but in a studio setting.. a bit more reseved than when an audience was present

Tunes tend to be theme, strings of solos, theme.. little exchanges etc.

Often not quite up to what one would expect from the participants, but worth having

At the price.. i'e. the pre order price, it's not such a bad deal, especially if you don't own 1&2 ( the Parkers) already.. at the list price.. I'll wait to Ocium completes their series, although the verve booklet.. if there is one might be a pleasant thing to have.

Edited October 1, 2004 by P.D.

[couw]

Couw,

Thanks. Where did you get this from. On line?

yes, a little google sleuthing took me to several sites and this is what I pulled up.

PD, maybe you can check the info I posted?

[P.D.]

Guess others were "simo posting"

Couw's lis is correct, except Diz is absent on

Jammin for Clef ( I got Rhythm)

and Rose Room.. but is there for the other pieces recorded that day.

Montg

Are these on par in terms of quality with the Columbia Buck Clayton jam sessions?(the only comparison I have to go by)

Not in my opinion, the Clayton's are more organised.. seems a dumb thing to say for a "Jam " session, but there is interplay, swapped choruses etc. in the Claytons, while the Granz's are mostly as I said above.. theme, solos, theme.

However they are worth having, don't let this comment put you off. The musicians in the Granz offerering are obviously "bigger" stars than the Claytons.

You might want to seek out the Ocium disc.. Lets Split which will give you Rose Room and Jammin' at Clef, combined with Jazz Studio one.. a smaller band.. Joe Newman, Bennie Green, Paul Quinicette, Frank Foster, Hank Jones, Johnny Smith, Ed Jones and Kenny Clarke playing Tenderley, Let's Split.. a much more satisfying set than much of the Granz's inspite of the players involved.

[montg]

Thanks P.D. For some reason I've never really warmed up to the 40s JATP compilation I have. Perhaps it's your point that there's a certain lack of organization (background riffs, more interplay) to the Granz material. Still the quality of the players on this set, stretching out in their prime in the studio, make it awful enticing.

[couw]

Guess others were "simo posting"

Couw's lis is correct, except Diz is absent on

Jammin for Clef ( I got Rhythm)

and Rose Room.. but is there for the other pieces recorded that day.

simo, yes and we both took our time I should think

thanks for checking, I've edited the bit about dizzy

[brownie]

Still missing from the reissue box is the August 1957 Jam Session that gathered Harry Edison, Lester Young, Ben Webster, Oscar Peterson, Herb Ellis, Ray Brown and Louis Bellson on 'Someone To Watch Over Me' and the same musicians plus Jimmy Rushing on 'Goin' to Chicago'.

The session has never seen the light of the day!

[neveronfriday]

There's also this link (True Blue). Nothing new, really, but ...:

http://www.truebluemusic.com/catalog/catal...&PKTitleID=7446

[Cornelius]

"Still missing from the reissue box is the August 1957 Jam Session [ . . . ]" [brownie]

Are you sure this is a separate studio session and not part of the unissued material from the Hollywood Bowl concert?

[P.D.]

"Still missing from the reissue box is the August 1957 Jam Session [ . . . ]" [brownie]

Are you sure this is a separate studio session and not part of the unissued material from the Hollywood Bowl concert?

While this is listed in Lord as being a Granz Jam session, the small band line up would somehow make it less than the usual approach to these recordings.

Also it was recorded three years after the last studio jam session. Granz semed to give up on those until his Pablo days

Perhaps it doesn't exist anymore or I think it would have been in the complete verve Pres box, which did seem to be a serious attempt at a "Complete" Pres.

The 5 disc approach would seem to be an attempt to have one recording session per disc.

Edited October 3, 2004 by P.D.

[Chuck Nessa]

Also it was recorded three years after the last studio jam session. Granz semed to give up on those until his Pablo days

Granz didn't stop recording jam sessions for Verve, he just started giving the sessions names like Sittin' In, Jazz Giants of '58, Tour de Force, etc.

[Cornelius]

"[. . .] this is listed in Lord as being a Granz Jam session [. . .]" [P.D.]

It seems to me that Lord sometimes lists sessions twice. So, in this case, there's a good chance that his G4465-2 is subsumed by J2034-2.

/

A small CD set I wish they would issue already are the live jams in November 1960 in Stockholm. Great lineups and tremendous music. Some of the very greatest.

Also, the October 1957 concerts would be nice to have on CD. More of the very greatest.

By the way, Lord cites Schaap as listing two of those October 1957 concerts - one in Los Angeles and one in Chicago - on the same day, even though Lord has Oscar Peterson on both of them. It's probably Lord who errs by not catching that it's actually John Lewis at the Chicago concert. Granz also contributes to the confusion by suggesting in liner notes that music that was actually recorded in L.A. is from the Chicago gig.

Edited October 4, 2004 by Cornelius

[P.D.]

Also it was recorded three years after the last studio jam session. Granz semed to give up on those until his Pablo days

Granz didn't stop recording jam sessions for Verve, he just started giving the sessions names like Sittin' In, Jazz Giants of '58, Tour de Force, etc.

Well I more or less agree with you Chuck, as I have these albums, but somehow to me at least, they seem to be a different sort of animal to the more "deliberate" jam session atmosphere of those under discussion in the upcoming set.

Sittin In I like a lot.. Hawk, Getz and Paul Gonsalves... nice contrasting group of tenor players.

[montg]

A small CD set I wish they would issue already are the live jams in November 1960 in Stockholm. Great lineups and tremendous music. Some of the very greatest.

Also, the October 1957 concerts would be nice to have on CD. More of the very greatest.

Sounds intriguing. Who's on these? Does Verve own them or did Granz keep them--in which case, perhaps Pablo/Fantasy will release these concerts (as they've done with some other 50s concert material from Granz).

[Cornelius]

montg,

There's some primo stuff.

I suspect that Universal owns it, since bits have come out on Verve CDs. Time to militate for the release of this material!

The known session details are not all clear, and I should listen to my LPs with the aim of fixing some details, but, just to make your mouth water, it goes something like this:

prob. Carnegie Hall, NYC - Sep 57

Stitt, Jacquet, Phillips, Young w/ Ellis, Peterson, Brown, J. Jones

The Slow Blues

______

Opera House, Chicago - Oct 57

Gillespie, Stitt, Getz w/ Lewis, Heath, Kay

Now's The Time

Autumn In New York

Wee

Round Midnight

Dear Old Stockholm

______

Opera House, Chicago - Oct 57

Eldridge, Johnson, Getz, Hawkins, Young w/ Lewis, Heath, Kay

Stuffy

Polka Dots And Moonbeams

______

Shrine Auditorium, LA [not, I don't think, Philharmonic Hall, which seems to conflate with a venue in some other city] - Oct 57

The Slow Blues

Merry-Go-Round

Stuffy

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

all below are from Konserthuset, Stockholm - Nov 60

Eldridge, Carter, Byas, Hawkins w/ Schifrin, A. Davis, J. Jones

Take The 'A' Train

These Foolish Things

Yesterdays

The Nearness Of You

You Go To My Head

Indiana

______

Gillespie, Johnson, Wright, Getz w/ Schifrin, A. Davis, Lampkin, Camero

Kush

The Mooche

Weatleigh Hall

______

Gillespie, Johnson, C. Adderley, Carter w/ Schifrin, A. Davis, Lampkin

Bernie's Tune

Swedish Jam

______

Eldridge, Byas, Getz, Hawkins w/ Schifrin, A. Davis, Lampkin

All The Things You Are

______

Johnson, Getz w/ Feldman, S. Jones, Hayes

Sweet Georgia Brown

I Waited For You

A New Town Is A Blue Town

Yesterdays

Trotting

______

Gillespie, Johnson, Getz w/ Feldman, S. Jones, Hayes

Blue 'N Boogie

______

Eldridge, Carter, Byas, Hawkins w/ Schifrin, A. Davis, J. Jones

A Jazz Portrait Of Brigitte Bardot

[P.D.]

Most of this stuff if not all ( the Brigette Bardot excepted) has I think only shown up on LP. The VSP sets.

It certainly is time for the 10(?) LPs that came out on verve, and the Stockholm sets to be reissued via CD.. but I'd be interested in knowing what other than the BB, which was on a Herb Ellis CD, has seen digital issue.

Edited October 4, 2004 by P.D.