"GOLD" CDs

[Leeway]

I see people paying a premium for "gold" CDs. Somehow it seems that people assume such CDs are a premium product.

Is that true? What exactly is a "gold" CD? How is it different than a regular CD? How is it better, if it is, indeed, better? Or, is this just another hype designed to part suckers-- er, I mean customers, from their money?

[jazzbo]

The bottom cd layer of these gold cds is a thin veneer (?) of gold rather than aluminum (or another metal, there is at least one other alloy used for some pressed cds).

Mobile Fidelity used to put out a theory that the gold layer led to less errors when the pits and lans are read, and therefore better sound. (I think that's right, I'm too lazy right now to dig something up that has that information).

Almost any gold cd will also feature careful remastering often by excellent engineers in excellent studio setups. . . . THIS contributes to pretty darned good sound in a lot of cases. So an argument is often made that this remastsering is what gives the gold cds their possible edge in sound.

However, I actually think there may be something to the gold layer itself being a contributing factor. I have made cdr copies of a gold cd that don't sound to my ears as good as the original. They sound nearly exactly the same but there is something. . . warmth? smoothness? . . .that is not quite there in the same extent on those that I have tried this on (DCC, Mobile Fidelity).

So. . . I'm interested to hear others' opinions. I like a lot of the gold cds I've bought (Sony/Columbia, DCC, Mobile Fidelity, a few others) for whatever reasons.

[J.A.W.]

Some of the best sounding CDs are the gold DCC CDs mastered by Steve Hoffman; his non-tampering with the original tapes pays off very well to my ears. The sound of the gold Analogue Production CDs is also very good. Unfortunately, both series are out of print; some of the CDs are rare and therefore rather pricey.

Edited September 26, 2004 by J.A.W.

[Bluerein]

Lon,

copies of "real pressed" CD's always sound worse than the original (how small the margin is in some cases). The copy process isn't the best and the layer of the CD-r isn't either. That said the gold cd's can indeed be better but depends on the whole process as well (as Lon said).

I'm curious about the gold CD-r's which MFSL has recently issued. Did anyone buy these?

The shipping to Europe is pricey so I didn't pull the trigger.

Cheers,

Reinier

[Stefan Wood]

I don't understand. It's all about 0s and 1s, not like vinyl, where you can have varying degrees of thickness, "virgin" material, etc. I thought the gold layer was to ensure more archival preservation. How can it produce a "warmer" sound?

[rockefeller center]

I thought the gold layer was to ensure more archival preservation.

Right, I guess oxidation is the keyword here.

[J.A.W.]

Many engineers bump up the high frequencies (and sometimes also the lows, hence the phrase "happy smiley EQ") when they're remastering older recordings, thus creating a less "warm" and sometimes more detailed but also more fatiguing remaster. Most if not all of the DCC remasters are "flat" (i.e. no fiddling with the EQ) and therefore sound warmer in comparison.

Edited September 26, 2004 by J.A.W.

[rockefeller center]

[Leeway]

Some of the best sounding CDs are the gold DCC CDs mastered by Steve Hoffman; his non-tampering with the original tapes pays off very well to my ears. The sound of the gold Analogue Production CDs is also very good. Unfortunately, both series are out of print; some of the CDs are rare and therefore rather pricey.

But how much of that is due to the mastering, rather than to the "gold"?

[couw]

[J.A.W.]

Some of the best sounding CDs are the gold DCC CDs mastered by Steve Hoffman; his non-tampering with the original tapes pays off very well to my ears. The sound of the gold Analogue Production CDs is also very good. Unfortunately, both series are out of print; some of the CDs are rare and therefore rather pricey.

But how much of that is due to the mastering, rather than to the "gold"?

My guess would be that it's due to the mastering only. See also my post above:

Many engineers bump up the high frequencies (and sometimes also the lows, hence the phrase "happy smiley EQ") when they're remastering older recordings, thus creating a less "warm" and sometimes more detailed but also more fatiguing remaster. Most if not all of the DCC remasters are "flat" (i.e. no fiddling with the EQ) and therefore sound warmer in comparison.

Edited September 26, 2004 by J.A.W.

[rockefeller center]

I have made cdr copies of a gold cd that don't sound to my ears as good as the original. They sound nearly exactly the same but there is something. . . warmth? smoothness? . . .that is not quite there in the same extent on those that I have tried this on (DCC, Mobile Fidelity).

So. . . I'm interested to hear others' opinions. I like a lot of the gold cds I've bought (Sony/Columbia, DCC, Mobile Fidelity, a few others) for whatever reasons.

Maybe you could play blindfold test with your wife to back up this opinion.

[couw]

following the rationale, does sound quality suffer further with subsequent CDr copies of CDr copies?

[jazzbo]

My wife is rarely interested in my audio interests. . . . I have done this comparison with my trumpeter friend Dave who seems to agree with me.

0s may be 0s, but there are many non digital aspects to playback from rotations to laser light waves. . . nothing is as simple as "bits are bits" in my experience.

Anyway, remastering and fromat/equipment used makes a difference. For instance in my opinion the new Columbia DSD remastered cd of "Blues in Orbit" sounds better than the gold Mobile Fidelity cd release cd layer. The SACD layer of the same disc sounds better to me than the Columbia cd. Wierd!

[rockefeller center]

I have done this comparison with my trumpeter friend Dave who seems to agree with me.

Ok, ask your trumpeter Dave to do a listening test.

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....listening+tests

Edit: +r

Edited September 26, 2004 by rockefeller center

[jazzbo]

I'll leave that to you.

[Brandon Burke]

There's a thread going back and forth on the Association for Recorded Sound Collections listserv. Here's the link to the September posts.

The ARSClist archive gets updated daily. Also, you're going to want to scroll down to the "Gold CDs" thread.

[mikeweil]

There is a physical difference between gold layers and other metals used. The pitches are in fact in the plastic (polycarbonate) and are coated with metal to make them reflective for the light of the laser. Gold layers are smoother, gold particles are considerably smaller in size than aluminum and those make for more accurate tracking, causing less reading errors. Less errors make for less data beeing recalculated by the computing part of the CD player, which results in a more natural sound - other aspects of tracking accuracy play a part here, and are the reason why some high end manufacturers build turntables to achieve cleaner tracking.

But I an convinced a badly mastered gold CD will sound worse than a well mastered aluminum CD - but most labels issuing gold CDs take more care of other aspects of CD mastering and production as well.

What I don't accept is the higher prices for gold layered CDs: there is one German classical label (MDG - Musikproduktion Dabringhaus & Grimm) that manufactures all their regular CDs with gold layers at normal high price level - and they are renowned for their good engineering taking utmost care to reproduction of the natural ambience of great sounding acoustics etc. - this shows that the gold layer alone must not justify the higher prices. Smaller pressing quantities may be a reason, and more effort and working hours, but most jazz CDs are not pressed in larger quantities and still sell at normal high price, so part of it is plain robbery for well-endowned high end fanatics who hear what they believe.

[RDK]

I put little stock in the gold per se - I don't think it makes much difference. But as others have said, the gold CD has come to represent audiophile production and mastering, with a different agenda than mass-market "silver" discs. So yes, I find that they often "sound better," but that has much more to do with mastering than with the gold layer.

[robviti]

www.american-digital.com is a great place to buy cdr blanks. although i don't splurge for the gold ones, i thought i'd pass along this sale ad:

[Bluerein]

Is there a cheap cd-r online seller hich ships internationally???

Thanks,

Reinier