Mingus Atlantic Reissues

[porcy62]

I noted that most of the Mingus Atlantic Recordings are available at AcousticSound.

Do you know them?

I suspect they are mastered by Rhino, and I don't know nothing about sound quality, masters, ecc.

Did you ever compare them with originals?

I have the Atlantic Coltrane box and I think the sound is fair, but I never compared it with originals.

Tha main question is : Is it really worth, musically speaking, spend time and money on Mingus originals?

thanks

Edited September 17, 2004 by porcy62

[Peter A]

I don't know the Mingus reissues, but I have several of his original Atlantic LP's.

In fact I have many original Atlantic LP's but the sound quality is never great.

Not comparable with the great sound of original Blue Note or Impulse records - try to find original copies of The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady or Mingus Mingus Mingus.

[wolff]

I can't be of help as I have not tried these yet. I'd guess they sound like the Coltrane set. I also agree that many Atlantic originals from this period are not that great sound-wise.

Vinyl.com would be another source. TThey may be cheaper if they ship to Italy.

[JohnS]

I can't really help either but my cd copy of "Blues and Roots" is incomparably better sounding than any vinyl issue of this I've heard.

[kh1958]

The Mingus recordings on Atlantic are so great, that issues as to which sound source is a bit better than another are not important.

[porcy62]

  kh1958 said:

The Mingus recordings on Atlantic are so great, that issues as to which sound source is a bit better than another are not important.

I have the cd box set of Atlantic recordings, (and the Debut box set, the Mosaic CBS Lp box sets and the Mosaic Candid Lp box sets, plus Tijuana Moods, Black Saints, Mingus Mingus Mingus and some others) so I am not questioning about the value of music, but the possibly better sound of Lp.

Since this is is the Vinyl Frontier it seems to me I was pretty clear in my post.

For some people in this forum the sound quality does matter.

Edited September 18, 2004 by porcy62

[Leeway]

  porcy62 said:

  kh1958 said:

The Mingus recordings on Atlantic are so great, that issues as to which sound source is a bit better than another are not important.

I have the cd box set of Atlantic recordings, (and the Debut box set, the Mosaic CBS Lp box sets and the Mosaic Candid Lp box sets, plus Tijuana Moods, Black Saints, Mingus Mingus Mingus and some others) so I am not questioning about the value of music, but the possibly better sound of Lp.

Since this is is the Vinyl Frontier it seems to me I was pretty clear in my post.

For some people in this forum the sound quality does matter.

Porcy 62, of all the Mingus that you have, which of these sets sound best to you?

You have some excellent stuff !

[BruceW]

Just joined forum, it is very nice to know where I can get so much information on vinyl records. Already heard about vinyl.com. Thanks loads.

B-)

Bruce

[porcy62]

  Leeway said:

Porcy 62, of all the Mingus that you have, which of these sets sound best to you? 

You have some excellent stuff !

Mingus is one of my favourite musician.

Usually I found Lp's sound more relaxin, less aggressive and tiring than cd's, I mean I can listen at music for a longer time.

The poorest sound quality is the Debut recordings (cd) probably due to the old digital mastering, the Mosaic (Lp) are great as usual as well as the Impulse (original Lp), the Atlantic (cd) is musically great, but a little harsch.

This is my modest opinion.

I am not saying Lp is always better than cd, some Lps sound awful and the cd reissues are a big improvement, the latest Impulse cds sound usually good to my ears (but I did not listen to Mingus' one).

Generally speaking I don't like the"hi end" sound, expecially with bands like Mingus' one, I feel I loose something of the "whole", if you understand what I mean.

If your system is too "X-ray" (like some digital mastering tend to be) you can loose the cohesion and the excitment of the music, too much dinamic, too much bass, too much of everything, you loose the balance. These masterings remember me a incapable sound engineer during a concert: he just moves up all faders without a logic.

Anyway, all the Mingus recordings are worth of a serious listening, cd or vinyl!!!

Edited September 19, 2004 by porcy62

[wolff]

  kh1958 said:

The Mingus recordings on Atlantic are so great, that issues as to which sound source is a bit better than another are not important.

We are just trying to keep up with the ubiquitous debates on what CD versions are best and whether or not to upgrade to the latest and greatest.

I have both Mosaics and the sound on both serves the music and my listening experience. I have always thought a couple of the Candid discs were pretty special sonically, but I won't go into details. You should pick them up. They can be had for around $100, at times, on EPAY. Mosaic bargains if there are any.

The Classic Records 'TJ Moods' is a bit bright, but very good nonetheless.

The Impulse reissue, from a few years ago, of Mingus Mingus....sucks.

[porcy62]

  wolff said:

The Classic Records 'TJ Moods' is a bit bright, but very good nonetheless.

The Impulse reissue, from a few years ago, of Mingus Mingus....sucks.

Wolf, what about the first pressing of this Lps, I have the Impulse, and they sound great to me.

Did you listen to the Speaker's Corner reissues?

And the TM original?

[sidewinder]

I have a French RCA 'Tijuana Moods' from the pre-digital era which sounds pretty good. My 'Mingus Mingus Mingus' is an early 70s UK reissue, again pre-digital and sounds excellent. A lot of the Impulse reissues from the 1980s onwards (there was a series put out in Germany for example) are DMM and therefore to be avoided I think.

The Debut 10 CD set by the way I think is an absolute treasure. Although the sound is not state of the current art, the material is astonishing. Probably the most fascinating box set in my collection, up there with Dean Benedetti in that respect.

[porcy62]

  sidewinder said:

The Debut 10 CD set by the way I think is an absolute treasure. Although the sound is not state of the current art, the material is astonishing. Probably the most fascinating box set in my collection, up there with Dean Benedetti in that respect.

I definitely agree with you!!!

When I bought it several years ago, each track was a discovery!!!

[sidewinder]

Some of the most fascinating material on the set are things like the Levister which only a total madman (or Mingus ) would have had the inspiration to record. A treasure !

Anyway, reminder for me to get back to the main feature of this thread ie. Mingus vinyl

[wolff]

One thing I remember reading about the Mingus Atlantic reissues, was to get the regular weight vinyl, not 180 gram. A few folks were in aggreement that the 180 gram sounded worse. Take this advice with a grain of salt, as I have no personal experience.

[kh1958]

  wolff said:

  kh1958 said:

The Mingus recordings on Atlantic are so great, that issues as to which sound source is a bit better than another are not important.

We are just trying to keep up with the ubiquitous debates on what CD versions are best and whether or not to upgrade to the latest and greatest.

I have both Mosaics and the sound on both serves the music and my listening experience. I have always thought a couple of the Candid discs were pretty special sonically, but I won't go into details. You should pick them up. They can be had for around $100, at times, on EPAY. Mosaic bargains if there are any.

The Classic Records 'TJ Moods' is a bit bright, but very good nonetheless.

The Impulse reissue, from a few years ago, of Mingus Mingus....sucks.

As Mingus is my favorite musician, I have every official Mingus release on LP and CD, sometimes more than one of each, but I don't think I have any "first pressings" prior to Mingus Moves, which was the first one I bought. I also have the two Mingus Mosaic sets, the Atlantic box, and the Debut box, not to mention most, though not all of the bootlegs.

I would like to have the two Candids on LP, to avoid the dreaded "echo" on every version I have, but haven't been successful yet in picking one up (I'm not entirely sure what a first edition Candid label looks like.)

The two worst CD issues of Mingus material are Mingus Plays Piano (very harsh and unlistenable, I think it was a "gold" CD as I recall; I think there is a subsequent version I haven't heard) and the only CD issue of the "Reincarnation of a LoveBird two-fer/French America release, which is pretty terrible sonically.

[wolff]

  kh1958 said:

I would like to have the two Candids on LP, to avoid the dreaded "echo" on every version I have

Could you explain this, and why do think it will not be on vinyl reissues/originals?

Thanks

Original Candid label

Edited September 20, 2004 by wolff

[kh1958]

On the quartet pieces, there is print-through echo at certain points--that is, you can hear a ghostly duplication of the horn soloist, slightly out of sync. I read this was because the tapes were not properly stored--that is, if they go too long without being rewound, the adjacent tape prints through to get the distracting echo effect. I assume early versions would not have this problem. The earliest version I have is a mid-1970s Barnaby reissue, which has the problem.

Edited September 20, 2004 by kh1958

[porcy62]

Just received few Atlantic original pressing (O.Coleman and Mingus).

Let's say I am not very impressed.

I supposed the reissues aren't better.

Maybe it worths only if you find a mono original copy, just for filling the classic Atlantic hole between the speakers.

I am wondering what the sound man was smoking during the Atlantic sessions.

Edited September 20, 2004 by porcy62

[Stefan Wood]

I have found in some cases that the original vinyl sound quality just isn't that good. Nothing wrong with the vinyl, just bad recording or mastering. I prefer the Mingus box done by Rhino.

Edited September 20, 2004 by Stefan Wood

[RDK]

IIRC, the problem with the Candid Mingus "Mingus Presents" is that the remaining stereo tapes are multi-generational and bad-sounding. The mono tapes, however, sound much better. Unfortunately, all CD releases except for the Mosaic have used the stereo versions. That's why the best-sounding version of "Mingus Presents" (in mono) can only be found in the Mosaic box.

[porcy62]

  RDK said:

That's why the best-sounding version of "Mingus Presents" (in mono) can only be found in the Mosaic box.

I noted the poor sound quality of Candid Mingus cds some times ago, I sold them and got the Mosaic Lp.

I am glad there is a "scientific explanation" for my bad feeling with cd.

BTW in my experience Candid cd aren't the best for sound quality. I just compared "We Insist!" with the original Lp, big difference!

Candid catalog deserve a fine remastering.

[wolff]

  RDK said:

IIRC, the problem with the Candid Mingus "Mingus Presents" is that the remaining stereo tapes are multi-generational and bad-sounding. The mono tapes, however, sound much better. Unfortunately, all CD releases except for the Mosaic have used the stereo versions. That's why the best-sounding version of "Mingus Presents" (in mono) can only be found in the Mosaic box.

Interesting. I'm confused.

The 'Mingus Presents' sides are in stereo on my Mosaic LP set.

Are they in mono on the Mosaic CD set, but stereo on the Mosaic vinyl?

In addition, I've never noticed the echo. It could be there, but I'm usually pretty bugged by unnatural sounding recordings.

[kh1958]

  wolff said:

  RDK said:

IIRC, the problem with the Candid Mingus "Mingus Presents" is that the remaining stereo tapes are multi-generational and bad-sounding.  The mono tapes, however, sound much better.  Unfortunately, all CD releases except for the Mosaic have used the stereo versions.  That's why the best-sounding version of "Mingus Presents" (in mono) can only be found in the Mosaic box.

Interesting. I'm confused.

The 'Mingus Presents' sides are in stereo on my Mosaic LP set.

Are they in mono on the Mosaic CD set, but stereo on the Mosaic vinyl?

In addition, I've never noticed the echo. It could be there, but I'm usually pretty bugged by unnatural sounding recordings.

I'm even more confused, as I have the Mosaic LP set and thought the echo that always bothered me was there; also, I didn't know there was a CD Mosaic of this set. Maybe it's me that's echoing?

[wolff]

There is/was a Mosaic Mingus Candid CD set. There is one on Ebay right now.

Listen to sides 1-3 again and let us know if you still hear it.

Hearing, memory...what's next?

What I'm hearing is anything but bad on these sides. In fact.....what I hear is natural decay and a decent amount of very natural air around the horns at times.

It can sound unusual, because it's absent on many recordings. If there is 'echo' it's from the room/walls that the mic picked up. That's what I'm hearing, anyway.