Wayne Shorter

[Chuck Nessa]

When all is said and done, I think most of Weather Report is "Wayne going away". I really regret the loss. He did it very smartly, but he relenquished his power. All I have hoped for, since then, is a glimmer and he keeps supplying those, but no real "pay off".

Ultimatly I am bummed. Shoulda, coulda.

[JSngry]

I see we have a difference of opinion!

[Brad]

Without out getting into particular songs, my favorite period of Wayne would be his years with Art on Blue Note as part of that great quintet in the early 60s. Adam's Apple is quite exhilarating.

[Chuck Nessa]

I see we have a difference of opinion!

Is it really hard for you to be wrong?

[JSngry]

I see we have a difference of opinion!     

Is it really hard for you to be wrong?

Oh HELL no. It's disgustingly easy.

That's why I enjoy it so much when I'm not!

[Larry Kart]

Sorry -- I got a little incoherent there (typos, parentheses that have no close, etc)., but I hope it can be sorted out without need of a secret decoder ring.

[JSngry]

No problem. I understand where you and Chuck are coming from. I suspect this is yet another case of different perceptions caused by different entry points into the music at different times. I had heard INDESTRUCTABLE, "ESP", "Moon Of Manakoora" and the first Weather Report album in the space of about a year and a half, and hell, it was ALL Wayne Shorter for what I knew.

The whole "new esthetic" thing was probably over the top in terms of the music overall, but that is what Wayne has done for me personally. He's created another way of for me to approach playing, and it's a way that is applicable in nearly every situation. That's not to say that I go out of my way to imitate him, just that what I "bring to the table" in terms of what the music is going to "be about" has forever been altered from a deep and prolonged exposure to his work.

And that exposure (and the impact thereof) does include Weather Report and beyond. Sometimes the actual music (and sometimes not), but always the concept. I'll not try to speak for anybody else, but there were so many times on WR albums when Wayne would play one little something that struck me as being the perfect statement for that moment. Sometimes it would be just one note (like those hits at the end of "Herandnu". Perfect in EVERY way, musically and tecnically!). That perfection got me to thinking that maybe, in a lot of ways, that a gesture could be as meaninful as a full-blown statement. Like I said earlier, hardly a new idea, but this was WAYNE SHORTER doing it, for Crissakes, and, to me, THAT mattered. And that might be precisely why it mattered, in a different way, to you and Chuck and lots of other people.

Unintended/unintentional consequences of what Wayne and Weather Report were going after, perhaps, but that's the way it's played out over the years. What can I say?

[Alon Marcus]

No doubt, he is one my favorite improvisers. Though Guy Berger opened this discussion about his playing and not writing, I'm sure these features are interconnected. Wayne knows how to milk the most out of a phrase, how to use and change his sound. Being a composer helps to develop this "storytelling" skill that Lester Young talked about.

IMO his best recorded solos are on his Blue Note Sixties output (including the soprano albums) and with Art Blakey.

With all the love I have for Miles' second great quintet I think that Wayne was under recorded (lengths of solos anywhere except the "Nickel" are short, sound quality sounds dull sometimes and worse than on BN). Still I'm looking for everything he is on. Weather Report is a great band but no descent comparison can be made with his solos there to those from the sixties.

Finally to the topic of this thread – Favorite solos.

Two solos that jumped immediately when seeing the question are the first two that made a great impression on me before becoming a Wayne addict.

1. On Art Blakey's "Night in Tunisia" solo on "When your lover has gone" (tenor sax).

2. On a record with Jim Hall and Petrucciani called "The power of three". A heart tearing soprano on "Morning Blues" (one of the best soprano solos ever IMHO).

Edited September 16, 2004 by ztrauq22

[Matthew]

Listening to Shorter's lp Night Dreamer last night, the solo on Virgo really knocked me on my ass. Such beauty, control and feeling, in nice, concise phrases. Loved it. This board in a goldmine on Shorter, I've spent all day reading some of the threads, and the knowledge shown is wonderfull. I'm learning a lot of stuff. Isn't this a great board or what?

[Matthew]

Interesting interview by Mel Martin where Shorter talks about saxaphones, etc.

Wayne Shorter

by Mel Martin

Reprinted from The Saxophone Journal

Volume 16, Number 4

January/February 1992

Wayne Shorter is one of the most unique and influential saxophonists and composers performing today. He has spawned a whole new generation of musicians whose musical efforts reflect his profound and lasting influence. His career spans several generations, from his early VeeJay and Blue Note recordings, through his work with Art Blakey and Miles Davis, as well as his work with the seminal fusion group Weather Report, and his own very creative groups. I was able to catch up with Wayne at a concert with Herbie Hancock at the Shoreline Amphitheater in Mountain View, California. It was the first time Wayne and Herbie had played together in an acoustic setting in quite some time and was a delight to hear them as they explored some well worn standards. They came up with some of the most interesting music I've heard in a while. They were on the same bill as the Mike Brecker band and some others. Wayne had just that day purchased a 75,000 series Mark VI tenor and this was his first opportunity to try it out. In the dressing room backstage Mike, Herbie, and I were all admiring this instrument which, for all practical purposes, looked brand new with the original lacquer intact.

More recently, I heard Wayne performing with his own band at Kimball's East, and once again was blown away by his absolute creativity in what is loosely regarded as a "fusion" context. He was also playing a tenor which he had previously owned, and had it gold plated. He was playing compositions from different parts of his career with as much freshness and vitality as one could. Wayne has a kind of poetic and creative way of speaking which I've attempted to capture in print, however, one really has to hear the inflections and tonal qualities inherent in his human voice to appreciate the full meaning of his words: much as the way he plays. This interview covers a wide range of topics including many reflections on his contacts with some of the great saxophonists that were his mentors, as well as his views on making music. The conversation begins, appropriately enough, on the subject of saxophones. ................

It's a copywrited article, so here is a link to the rest of the interview.

[Guest]

I just dug out my copy of Weather Report's "Mysterious Traveler" to listen to Wayne's soprano work on 'Blackthorn Rose.' When he does that propulsive run about a minute into the tune...I'm STILL gassed by it 30 years later.

[Late]

Interesting (or at least curious) thread. When it comes to inflection and Shorter's use of it, try this: listen to when he plays a descending chromatic scale. Nothing special about it, really, it's just going down key-by-key on a piano. But when Wayne does it on a saxophone — it's somehow almost not a chromatic scale! (In fact, I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit, I've sometimes stopped while listening and thought: "Whoa! What scale is that? Is that one of Yusef Lateef's nifty scales?" Then I realize, um — hello, it's a chromatic scale.)

Example: Shorter's solo on "Tom Thumb"

There are other examples from Speak No Evil and the Plugged Nickel set, too.

[Rooster_Ties]

Interesting (or at least curious) thread. When it comes to inflection and Shorter's use of it, try this: listen to when he plays a descending chromatic scale. Nothing special about it, really, it's just going down key-by-key on a piano. But when Wayne does it on a saxophone — it's somehow almost not a chromatic scale! (In fact, I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit, I've sometimes stopped while listening and thought: "Whoa! What scale is that? Is that one of Yusef Lateef's nifty scales?" Then I realize, um — hello, it's a chromatic scale.)

Example: Shorter's solo on "Tom Thumb"

There are other examples from Speak No Evil and the Plugged Nickel set, too.

This reminds me that I've often thought that much of Wayne's playing sounds as if his 12-tone chromatic scale actually has about 13½ notes in it!! I'm not sure I mean that literally, but honestly - my ears might well react the same way listening to Wayne, as they would some someone who really does play in scales that have 13½ "half notes" per octave.

I was recently listening to a CDR I made recently made up of all the previously unreleased material (and alternate takes) from the 65-68 2nd Great Quintet box (Miles). I made that disc so as to have one disc of that band that was all material that I was less familiar with. I hadn't listened to much studio Miles recently from that era (not in 6 months or so), and I was immediately struck at how very much Wayne sounded just like he does today, on his two recent live recordings on tenor. You could put passages of each on, side by side, and I think many of us would be hard-pressed to tell which was which without at least a good 15 or 20 seconds to go on.

I'm not saying the man hasn't developed and progressed since then -- but rather, I was newly amazed at how advanced and totally modern Wayne sounded back in '67 or so. (Same with Etcetera -- my favorite of Wayne's BN leader material.) NOBODY sounded like that then, and nobody does today either. (And My 13½ "half notes" per octave observation goes for a good bit of Wayne' playing back in the day too. I don't know much, if any, of his 70's output - I'm afraid.)

Edited October 31, 2006 by Rooster_Ties

[Hot Ptah]

A few more Shorter-the-saxophonist recordings which I like, and which have not been mentioned:

Miles Davis--"Ascent" (one of his most beautiful soprano sax solos, in my opinion. Miles' solo is also a thing of wonder to me. Too bad the song itself isn't much).

Weather Report--"Black Market" from the live "8:30" album.

How about his playing on Tony Williams' "Spring" album, in the two tenor format with Sam Rivers?

[Jazz Kat]

The Egiptian. Art Blakey

His sound is very unique!

[michel1969]

"Dance Cadaverous" moves me like few others do; the only one that comes close is "Little One" and "Dolphin Dance" from Maiden Voyage. But THE highlight is that first note breathed on "Infant Eyes." How the hell does he DO that?!?!? Ethereal doesn't begin to describe it.

I agree for "dance cadaverous" and "infant eyes" . And also for "Little One" and "Dolphin dance"...except that it is George Coleman on Tenor.