Well that was an effed up way to start the day

[connoisseur series500]

JJ did that?

[connoisseur series500]

The R&B singer, Donnie Hathaway committed suicide by jumping from a window in a highrise...

Woody Shaw fell in front of a train, but he was not trying to kill himself. I think he was in a catatonic state caused by diabetes and he lost his balance. Anyone know for sure?

[RainyDay]

Death is all around us (as if that's some great revelation) and people will kill themselves. What's unacceptable is if they injure or kill someone in the process, like Jan. Thank god nothing like that happened.

People who are in sufficient mental and/or emotional pain that they want to kill themselves generally don't have the full capacity to make appropriate decisions about their actions. I'm sure Donny Hathaway didn't stop to think he might kill someone when he reached the pavement. These people don't make a conscious decision to hurt or kill another person. This could be someone suffering from untreated depression, or schizophrenia, or bipolar disorder. All I'm suggesting is that there be some compassion for these people and to consider that what they are doing has nothing to do with you. It is horrible when someone chooses to die and they harm someone in doing so. The cops and paramedics who respond; the transit workers who have to go home for the day or longer; the person walking down the street who witnesses someone fall from a window and land in their path of travel.

Calling suicide selfish is unfair. It suggests that people have an obligation to live their lives in pain so as not to discomit anyone else. When your mind is broken, you can't make the right choices. We live in a culture that celebrates the individual and we often wrongly think that when something bad happens, it's all about us. Sometimes shit happens that doesn't have anything to do with you but you were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Jim Alfredson]

Don't talk about Donny. Makes me almost cry just thinking about it.

[Noj]

First off I'm sorry J Larsen had to have such a horrible experience. My brother saw his good friend die in front of him by piece of scaffolding that fell from a high rise in downtown LA. Awful thing to be near sudden death. Worse if you know the person that died.

Here's the way I learned it: "Suicide is for quitters. Some things take care of themselves. Losing perspective is not an option. There are little kids who can't get out of their wheelchairs to have fun and some can't even breathe without respirators. As long as you are healthy you better damn well be happy--and even if you aren't healthy you should continue to be happy."

Then I learned some folks just have the wrong chems firing off in the ol' thinkbox.

Somewhere in between lies where I stand.

Edited September 8, 2004 by Noj

[RainyDay]

    Don't talk about Donny.  Makes me almost cry just thinking about it.

I loved him too. I remember how shocked we all were when he died. It just seemed so wrong and so "unfair. "

"Someday We'll All Be Free" always breaks my heart when I hear it. That song and Sam Cooke's "A Change is Going to Come" make me cry something awful. Kenny Garrett plays "Someday..." on African Exchange Student. Man it is so beautiful. Need to hear it now.

Edited September 8, 2004 by RainyDay

[chris olivarez]

I lost a friend to suicide. Over the years I have gone through a roller coaster of emotions about it. At this point in my life I feel that using suicide as a problem solving device is something that's not for me to judge.

[AmirBagachelles]

I lost a good friend to suicide. We were in our mid-twenties. He tried to get help, but he couldn't resist this powerful urge in the end. He was never prescribed any medication, only therapy. Suicidal people deserve the help of medical doctors most of all -- there is altered brain chemistry at work in many cases, or so I believe.

I have noticed sometimes that when I work out to exhaustion, or when I feel a certain type of strong nausea, I can feel a change in my brain that is powerful, emotionally negative, temporary and perhaps bio-chemical. It's like a dark cloud or a sadness. It's usually very brief (5-10 minutes) and because it is so overt and reflects such an extreme change in mood, it's like an analog to a chemically induced high (which are almost twenty yrs in my past finally...).

When drugs are at work, even the organic chemistry of our brains, we may be helpless, or we could benefit from professional care and/or medication. I believe the worst suicidal cases among us however, are probably blameless for their actions.

[Jazzmoose]

Having gone through a big battle with serious depression not too long ago, I agree with you totally, Amir. This "why do they have to risk taking someone with them" argument is kind of odd, as it presupposes that the suicidal person is capable of rational thought. In most cases, I'd say their actions are pretty solid proof that this isn't the case.

[J Larsen]

Sorry to dig up a morbid thread, but I just stumbled across this one accidently while doing a little googling. I was struck by how much our perceptions of a situation can be altered by extreme circumstances. I very literally nearly died that day; if I had been walking a little faster I almost certainly would have. Looking back five years later, my attitude towards Joanne (the jumper) is very different. But I can't blame myself for how I felt at the time.

[medjuck]

I didn't notice the year on this thread so thought I had just missed it last month. Disturbing especially because I'm in NY visiting my son who's in the Tisch School and lives in the dorm at 80 Lafyette St. (Both mentioned in the article quoted.) And J Larsen I suspect you were in a state of shock when you started this thread-- with good reason.

[AllenLowe]

joe - sorry I missed you in town - should have come by our session - nobody got hurt.

[medjuck]

I just got here Thursday. Or I would have. I'd like to see the studio.

[AllenLowe]

great place, small, perfect acoustics for recording jazz, great engineer. and as Matt and I were driving back toward the Williamsburgh Bridge, strangely enough, we spotted William Dafoe.