Jerry Gonzales....

[tonym]

Now I don't normally criticise other people's dress sense or style but I tuned in briefly to the Brecon Jazz Festival on BBC TV earlier this evening.

It happened to be during an interview with the above. And...he was wearing 'the uniform'; goatee, beret (black, of course), shades (black, of course), turtle neck sweater (shocking pink...no wait, BLACK). Oh well, it is flattering....

Then he opened his mouth and out came a load of hipster stuff straight out of Kerouac.

Now, I had no idea who the guy was, and having heard him after the chat, it's evident I'm not missing out on much, but, Jesus, do the music a favour and get a bit of individuality rather than the fancy dress mode. I'm thinking that's maybe why they interviewed him; he looks and sounds the part, y'know a bit of a 'cat', a fruity guy.

Sorry if I've really offended any staunch Gonzales fans here, but the parody was too much to take.

[JSngry]

....it's evident I'm not missing out on much...

I don't know about that....

[ghost of miles]

I had a jazz drummer friend once who used the word "cats" a lot, and could use it with conviction. His favorite term for a good guy or killer musician, though, was "Heavy hoss," as in, "Art Blakey is a heavy hoss!"

[ghost of miles]

Even if he was a Russian spy who killed Charlie Parker, you understand... B-)

[tonym]

....it's evident I'm not missing out on much...

I don't know about that....

From this show I'm not.

It's always nice to be pleasantly surprised though.

[JSngry]

Jerry Gonsalez and his brother Andy have made consistently interesting "Latin Jazz" music that's far more inventive (and are deeper into BOTH idioms than most of their peers in the idiom - no nice, happy runthroughs of tired bebop cliches over a smiley-face mambo beat for THESE guys) for about 30 years now. They're very good musicians, far more adventurous than people who wear suits (or whatever). and they are smack dab in the middle of the NYC scene, which most likely has a little different vibe and culture than North yorkshire. Whatever "jive talk" Jerry spoke, he came by honestly, I assure you. And believe it or not, that "look" is not that unusual in some places, amongst some people.

Do you have many Nuyoriquenos in your neck of the woods to compare Gonsalez' behavior to, or are you just reacting to a "stereotype" to which you have no real-life experience with which to evaluate it by?

Check out some of his music and then get back to me, ok?

Edited September 4, 2004 by JSngry

[Free For All]

Regarding the "hipster lingo", IMHO it's all a matter of context. I grew up being around a lot of those "cats"- I'm not talking about the extreme Slim Galliard "McVouty" stuff but the general lingo typical of jazz musicians hanging out. Many of my mentors were the old "hipster" types and I always dug the way they communicated w/each other. Kind of a inner-circle secret-language vibe- yes, it was/is often intended to be exclusive to "outsiders', but it also serves as a unifying "we're all in this together" kind of thing.

I can see how to some it can seem extremely "jive", and some people definitely overdo it, but it's a cultural remnant that I'd hate to see disappear completely.

Not to mention black is slimming.

EDIT: ..and as Jim said, it's all about the product. That's the bottom line.

Edited September 4, 2004 by Free For All

[JSngry]

Kind of a inner-circle secret-language vibe- yes, it was/is often intended to be exclusive to "outsiders', but it also serves as a unifying "we're all in this together" kind of thing.

Well, geez, why would we want/need to be separate? Doesn't the world accept us and affirm our worth just as we are?

[Free For All]

In your 13-smilie dreams, McVouty! :rsmile:

[JSngry]

Solid, Gate!

[JohnS]

Don't know about the hipster jive but Gonzalez' band is always worth listening to. I'm not a great lover of latin jazz but this band I like. These guys slip so easily and gracefully between jazz and latin grooves.

[Dr. Rat]

Don't know the Gonzalez brothers personally, but both of them have always struck me as absolutely in earnest when it comes to music.

Some folks who are good at music just aren't very good at the "always meeting new people and making a good impression" side of things. I run into this all the time, even with local musicians whom I see all the time--they just can't seem to get around the ambiguity of our relationship.

Unless they're real jerks, I just give them the benefit of the doubt and move on as best I can (even if I can't understand a damn thing they say!).

--eric

[ghost of miles]

Solid, Gate!

Send me, Jackson! And pull my coat when the next QO platter hits the streets!

[tonym]

Jerry Gonsalez and his brother Andy have made consistently interesting "Latin Jazz" music that's far more inventive (and are deeper into BOTH idioms than most of their peers in the idiom - no nice, happy runthroughs of tired bebop cliches over a smiley-face mambo beat for THESE guys) for about 30 years now. They're very good musicians, far more adventurous than people who wear suits (or whatever). and they are smack dab in the middle of the NYC scene, which most likely has a little different vibe and culture than North yorkshire. Whatever "jive talk" Jerry spoke, he came by honestly, I assure you. And believe it or not, that "look" is not that unusual in some places, amongst some people.

Do you have many Nuyoriquenos in your neck of the woods to compare Gonsalez' behavior to, or are you just reacting to a "stereotype" to which you have no real-life experience with which to evaluate it by?

Check out some of his music and then get back to me, ok?

Steady on Jim.

Firstly, no, we don't happen to have a great many Purto Rican immigrants in North Yorkshire, I'll have a drive around though and have a look, I'm bound to notice any that are here by their attire.

We do though have a vibrant salsa and merengue scene in the many village halls and community centers but they tend to be the domain of the elderly or those desperately in need to find friendship.

I wasn't saying that his music wasn't real because of the get-up, I was commenting upon his get-up. Much like it bugs me when I see local lads, who having turned 18, proceed to dress for the rest of their lives in tweeds, checked shirts, flat caps and twills...oh, and get a Range Rover while you're at it. The female requirements are even more horrifying. Or worse, the Brits abroad on the Costas in their footie shirts and Union Jack shorts.

As for men in suits. Of the many jazz acts I've seen in this county, country and overseas, I can honestly say I can't recall what they were wearing, they may have had suits, I do not know. However, saying that this band are more adventurous than ones who do wear suits is, well, crap. And of course, the cultural 'vibe' in downtown, or wherever, New York is very different, not a little, to that of our sleepy countryside.

So yes, I probably am reacting to the stereotype, you know the one that was indelibly portrayed outside of Minton's in the 1940's -- gotta say though, it must have been dead cool then.

And remember, I did listen to the music, I found it dull, a bit like a bunch of tired old bebop cliches over a latin groove. If I ever hear any more of this stuff (let's face it I've got 30 odd years to trawl through), and I like it, I promise, I'll let you know.

[sidewinder]

I caught this broadcast on the BBC4 repeat late last night and liked it a lot. Gonzales is a very fine player on trumpet and flugel and his band very professional. Would have loved to have seen this performance in person. Heck, looks like they had Joe Ford there on alto and Larry Willis on piano so how can you go wrong? The interview with Gonzales was also straight ahead from what I can see - he's an enthusiastic guy who appreciates this band (stating I think that they've essentially been together about 20 years) and that he had recently moved across to Spain. Good for him - I hope it works out.

I've never seen Jerry Gonzales live but I have seen Andy Gonzales with Hilton Ruiz's group in NYC and can vouch that he is absolutely first rate too..

Edited September 5, 2004 by sidewinder

[JSngry]

I stand by in defense of the brothers Gonzalez.

As for the North Yorkshire salsa/merengue scene & 18 year old Brits who proceed to dress for the rest of their lives in tweeds, checked shirts, flat caps and twills, I cannot and I will not comment, since I:

• have never been to North Yorkshire
  
• have been 18 more more than than 2.5 times
  
• live in a climate that is generally unfavorable to tweediness, save for a few weeks in winter
  

In other words, I wouldn't know what the hell I was talking about.

Edited September 6, 2004 by JSngry

[A Lark Ascending]

I also get iced teeth when faced with hipster-talk. 'Cats', 'Man', 'He was really smokin'', 'Dude' and all the rest.

But I suspect this might be a Brit thing.

It probably all sounds quite natural in its home environment. Coming out of the mouth of Stanley from Barnsley talking very loudly to show how jazzy he is whilst watching the Fulford Five at the Slug and Lettuce, it really grates.

As for Gonzalez, I missed the Brecon broadcast (I was watching Gardener's World!!!!!!) but have a couple of records by him which I'd recommend. 'Rhumba Para Monk' is a particular favourite.

I suspect he was playing in the Brecon Market Hall. Having attended concerts in that barn I'd suggest anything lacklustre probably had alot to do with the venue. He probably had a Welsh chicken trapped in his horn...sorry...trumpet. Definitely in the top five 'worst places I've heard jazz'.

[JSngry]

It probably all sounds quite natural in its home environment.

Exactly!

Thank you for saying what I was trying to say with an equanimity that I was unable to muster.

[tonym]

It probably all sounds quite natural in its home environment.

Exactly!

Thank you for saying what I was trying to say with an equanimity that I was unable to muster.

Oh right....that's what you were trying to say.

[couw]

I still don't understand what this thread is all about

[JSngry]

It probably all sounds quite natural in its home environment.

Exactly!

Thank you for saying what I was trying to say with an equanimity that I was unable to muster.

Oh right....that's what you were trying to say.

Yes, it was. I just wasn't very cool about it.

Dig?

[DrJ]

This is downright silly. Who CARES how the man speaks during an inteview? He plays his ASS off on a very regular basis as Jim points out and is most definitely the real thing in terms of musical credentials and chops. Fantastic trumpeter as well as one mean conga player (sat in on congas with McCoy Tyner's big band at the Blue Note one night when I was lucky enough to be there and brought an already hot night - Eddie Henderson was truly on fire - to a WHOLE other level).

I don't care if tomorrow he started exclusively appearing in public in only a pink tutu, speaking in a Prince-influenced falsetto, and walking the John Cleese Ministry of Silly Walks walk - as long as he keeps PLAYING the way he does.

[A Lark Ascending]

You must understand how traumatised UK jazz fans are.

One of the most popular comedy shows of the 90s - 'The Fast Show' - had a regular sketch called 'Jazz Club' that took the piss mercilessly out of jazz affectation.

The mere mentioning in company of a liking for jazz subjected you to a barrage of ridicule with endless quotes from the sketches!

The sight of anyone on the 'Cat'-walk throws us back into those dark days once more.

"No! No! Jerry. You'll only encourage the re-runs!"

Edited September 7, 2004 by Bev Stapleton

[Man with the Golden Arm]

I still don't understand what this thread is all about

s'bout dis:

[couw]

what a stoopid shirt. I bet he talks like a parrot too.

how's the music?