Freddie Hubbard's "The Melting Pot"

[Late]

I was listening to Freddie's Blue Spirits yesterday — what a marvelous session. Very glad to see it receiving the (J)RVG treatment. I hope the two bonus tracks ("The Melting Pot" and "True Colors," both from 1966) make it onto the upcoming Japanese remaster!

Here's what I stumbled upon. Listening to "The Melting Pot" on headphones, I noticed a third horn (an alto saxophone) just under Freddie's horn on the left channel. Joe Henderson's on the right channel on tenor. Now ... Cuscuna makes special mention of this track in his 1987 liner notes for the album's initial reissue on compact disc. And he calls it a quintet track. The third horn doesn't solo at all, so I can see how "quintet" would come to mind right away, but I'm 99% sure that this is actually a sextet session. The question is ... who's on alto? My immediate response would be James Spaulding, not only because he was a Hubbard regular, but because the alto (which blends exceedingly well into the ensemble, and is easy to miss) actually has Spaulding's tone.

Can anyone with a discography do a check to see if Spaulding was at (or was listed as being at) the session? The cd liners don't list him as being there. Hosea Taylor (on bassoon), however, was there, and I wonder if perhaps he doubled on alto just for the ensemble passages.

The actual date of the recording session is March 5, 1966 — apparently Freddie's last studio session for Blue Note (before he came back in the 80's). Only two tracks were completed, according to Cuscuna's note. "The Melting Pot," as I'm sure a lot of you already know, is a wonderful track (and composition), and I wish there had been more from this session!

Bertrand? Kevin? Others?

[Harmon]

The BN discography of R&C lists Hosea Taylor (as on "the melting point",

bassoon on "True colors"). Never heart of HT.

Jürgen

[sidewinder]

Just had a quick listen to my copy of the original 'Blue Spirits' release, CDP7 46545 2. Joe is indeed on the right channel, very distinctive. Can't pick out any alto on the left but Joe is playing his harmonies on the lead quite high - could be mistaken for an alto. Maybe what is being observed is leakage from the right channel? Sounds like a quintet session on the basis of the original CD (which was a McMaster ).

[Late]

Sidewinder,

Try a few more spins (so I don't start feeling paranoid). The "third horn" is actually pitched differently (different notes, I mean) than Joe's horn. It's right under Freddie's trumpet: quiet, but not too quiet. Blocking out Herbie's comping (strange thing to say!) helps bring out the alto.

Jürgen,

I understand from your post that Taylor is indeed on alto? I wonder why Cuscuna would call it a quintet session then.

Late

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Absolutely there is alto on TMP and it has been listed (as played by Hosea Taylor) in discographies for years.

The only other appearsances I know of for Hosea Taylor are on alto for Solomon Ilori's album "African High Life" (1963) and on bassoon for Yusef Lateef's "The Centaur and the Phoenix" (1960).

Regarding the "quintet" mention, obviously Cuscuna slipped in his little note for the 1987 CD. Like other BN CDs, there are also problems with asterisks - both TMP and TC have asterisks, which theoretically mean "Does not appear on L.P. configuration," however we also see "Hosea Taylor*, bassoon" and "Herbie Hancock, piano & celeste*" listed. So it's not possible to decipher the specific personnel from the credits.

I'll take this opportunity to correct another bit of misinformation from this session - that ain't no celeste. It's a harpsichord.

Even considering the mixup of celeste/harpsichord, this is listed incorrectly in both the Cuscuna & Ruppli book (1st ed) and the Bruyninckx and Lord discographies. They list celeste on TMP. Wrong - Hancock plays only piano on TMP. The harpsichord only appears on TC.

I don't have the 2nd edition Cuscuna & Ruppli, so I don't know if anything has been corrected there.

Mike

[Harmon]

Michael,

she or he also played as on

AFRICAN HIGH LIFE by SOLOMON ILORI BN 4136

Jürgen

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I thought I just said that......

Hosea is a he, as far as I know.

Mike

[J Larsen]

As an aside, Hosea Taylor was a decent defensive end on the Indianapolis Colts in the early 80s. I think we can safely assume we're dealing with a "he" here.

EDIT: Mike, our posts crossed up.

Edited May 18, 2003 by J Larsen

[Harmon]

Micheal,

please excuse me. I did not read your post carefully enough.

Jürgen

[sidewinder]

Late,

Wow - extremely well spotted !! I've given my old CD several more spins, put my head to the left speaker and still can't clearly differentiate Hosea on alto. We are talking fairly top end CD player and speakers here, too. Having said that, the ensembles are somewhat 'broader' than would be expected from a quintet session (I'd always put this down to Joe Henderson's excellent harmonic creativity ..)

I guess I can put the blame either on my own hearing or (more likely) the lack of definition in the McMaster CD version

Time for me to hunt this one down on vinyl and make a plant pot holder from the McMaster !

Nevertheless - great session..

Ever thought of signing up for the Navy as a sonar operator ?

Edited May 19, 2003 by sidewinder

[Late]

Sonar operator for the navy? Hey, that's Al! (Joe X-mas.) Has he been to this board (yet)? I miss the guy's posting humor.

Sidewinder, the JRVG, when it comes out, might just have (probably will have) an entirely different sound pallette. Maybe Taylor's alto will sneak through a bit more. That is, if the two bonus tracks are on it. If so, I'll likely be lumping over the sterling for that disc. The question is ... will Hans?

Blue Spirits might be finding its place in the Offering & Looking For forum in coming days.

[sidewinder]

Can just about pick out the alto but it's marginal (man, this one is driving me crazy ). It's probably a bit easier to differentiate on headphones - admittedly not helped by Joe H's higher register unison work. Unfortunately, my all-Naim set up doesn't allow such 'heretic sonic transgressions' as headphones so I'm left with the speakers. Will have to look out for the JRVG for the bonus tracks.

Suspect that the Toshiba LP version would be a straight copy of the original session tracks but if I ever see it I'll probably snag it anyway (perhaps Hiroshi can help...)

I'll hang on to my McMaster and use my imagination to conjure up the alto ..

Edited May 19, 2003 by sidewinder

[JohnS]

On tomorrows play list.

[kdd]

Melting Pot wouldn't be on the Blue Spirits vinyl. It was a bonus track on the CD.

[JohnS]

Sorry chaps, I can't hear an alto on my first generation cd-phones or speakers.

[sidewinder]

Sorry chaps, I can't hear an alto on my first generation cd-phones or speakers.

That's a relief - I thought I was totally and utterly losing it !

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Well, I guess maybe you are losing it because the alto is there. It plays a minor second below the tenor on the opening A section (with the parallel voicings) and mostly a major second above the tenor on the B section. The C section is in unison. For the last note of the tune, the trumpet has a concert F, the alto has the C below that, and the tenor has the A below that.

To pick out the alto part it helps to focus on articulation. Henderson is very very short on his releases and Taylor is less so. There are a couple of places where sloppiness of execution lets the alto be heard more prominently.

The basic horn writing is similar to that on "Amanda" by Duke Pearson. It's a great three horn sound.

Mike

[Late]

Damn! Thanks, Mike.

Now all we need is a scan of Hosea Taylor to post here. The phantom!

[sidewinder]

To pick out the alto part it helps to focus on articulation. Henderson is very very short on his releases and Taylor is less so. There are a couple of places where sloppiness of execution lets the alto be heard more prominently.

The basic horn writing is similar to that on "Amanda" by Duke Pearson. It's a great three horn sound.

Mike

Just a hint of Hosea in the 'C' section after another spin, just able to pick out the alto/tenor harmony. Nothing more than that I'm afraid. Sorry !

:rsmile:

[JohnS]

I'll try it again, if it's there I want to hear it.

[mikeweil]

That Hosea Taylor also participated in several Columbia sessions of the late Babatunde Olatunji in 1962, playing alto sax, flute and oboe alongside Clark Terry and Yusef Lateef, among others. He solos on flute.

Theses sessions were included in the Bear Family box set that I recommended in the Solomon Ilori thread.

[alankin]

Absolutely there is alto on TMP and it has been listed (as played by Hosea Taylor) in discographies for years. [...]

I'll take this opportunity to correct another bit of misinformation from this session - that ain't no celeste. It's a harpsichord.

Even considering the mixup of celeste/harpsichord, this is listed incorrectly in both the Cuscuna & Ruppli book (1st ed) and the Bruyninckx and Lord discographies. They list celeste on TMP. Wrong - Hancock plays only piano on TMP. The harpsichord only appears on TC.

I don't have the 2nd edition Cuscuna & Ruppli, so I don't know if anything has been corrected there.

Mike

2nd edition of Cuscuna & Ruppli lists Hancock on celeste on "True Colors," Hosea Taylor on alto sax on "The Melting Pot" and bassoon on "True Colors."

[david weiss]

Yes, there is definitely alto on the Melting Pot. I have another one for you guys, on the Wayne Shorter's The All Seeing Eye on the track Genesis, do you hear a second trumpet or Flugelhorn? I know Alan Shorter is on his tune at the end of the record but it sounds to me like he's playing some parts on this one as well. Any one else hear it?

Edited February 28, 2004 by david weiss

[montg]

apologies for going off topic for a moment, but the NJCO smokes on their last CD on Fresh Sounds--hope another is in works.

[david weiss]

Thanks Montg for the support and kind words. We just started recording our next CD last month and will finish it in March. When it will come out, who knows but what we've recorded so far has made me happier than any record I've been on.