Free Jazz and Free Improvisation by Todd S. Jenkin

[brownie]

Stollman nowadays works for the estate of the Duke Elington family and also the Chet Baker family, I believe.

[Guest Chaney]

UP for THIS Ken Waxman review of Free Jazz And Free Improvisation : An Encyclopedia (Greenwood Press) and to ask if maybe Uncle Chuck'll share another story.

By the way, if it's mystery and adventure you're hungrin' for, be sure to check out my recent post in the Funny Rat thread: The Mystery of the Dim Fridge. A great many posters (two) have felt compelled to give it a rave review.

[Chuck Nessa]

Not a story, but an apology.

I was going to start a new thread about this.

Around the first of the year Todd Jenkins emailed me. He had discovered this thread and said he did interview me via email. I checked my files and discovered a series of ten questions he posed and I answered. This was in December of 2001 and I did not remember it at the time.

Concerning the book itself, I have only examined the samples on the publisher's page. I do have some issues with details in what I've seen but obviously this is an important book and will order a copy.

Once again, sorry for my error.

[Chuck Nessa]

Here are the questions and my answers.

> 1) When was the Nessa label originally founded? What was the earliest

> vision for the label? What did you hope to achieve that Delmark and

> other labels hadn't at the time?

After I quit at Delmark, Roscoe Mitchell suggested I start my own label.

No grandiose plans, just make a record. This was the summer of 1967.

>

> 2) Free jazz has always been admittedly difficult to market to the

> general public. What did you personally find so appealing about such

> freely improvised music that you risked creating your own label

> devoted to it?

No consideration of risk. I just felt a record needed to be made.

That is the way all my recordings evolved.

>

> 3) What's your perception of the AACM's impact on music in Chicago and

> elsewhere in the world? Do you feel that they lived up to their

> initial promise? How different do you think today's jazz scene would

> be if the AACM's early efforts had not been documented so well?

The main musical contribution, beyond some extraordinary players, was

offering different ways of organizing recent musical techniques. On a

nonmusical front, they gave musicians everywhere the concept of creating

their own playing situations. Musician produced concerts and the loft

scene was a result.

>

> 4) What role did you play in Delmark's early free-jazz concentration?

> In hindsight, do you think your own label spin-off caused any

> difficulties for Delmark at the time, or was the market so small that

> it didn't really matter?

I went to work as manager of the Jazz Record Mart, with a promise from

Koester that I could sign 3 musicians to contracts, and record them.

I spent all my spare time going to clubs and concerts to hear as many

musicians as I could. I decided on Roscoe Mitchell for the first

signing, and he suggested Muhal and Joseph. After hearing them, I

agreed. Koester gave me amazing latitude, and I am grateful.

I always felt that more AACM recordings helped sell the others. If

someone discovered a Muhal record on Delmark, that could lead them to

a Lester Bowie record on Nessa, and the reverse was true as well.

The "market" only existed in Chicago (not enough to support a record)

and had to be created everywhere else. It was wide open.

>

> 5) What sort of mistakes, if any, have you learned from since the

> Nessa label was founded? What would you do differently now?

I would do nothing different with the label. The label never supported

me or itself. I always had a "day job" to take care of that. I did make

a couple of mistakes there, which impacted the label adversely. For

example, because of a job decision, I was not able to get cds of my

catalog issued when the change over occurred.

>

> 6) Who were some of the first free artists you dealt with for the

> Nessa label? Were you initially approached by the artists about

> recording their music, or did you go to them first? Did the artists

> have any input as to the label's early establishment and direction?

Part of this is answered above. I approached all the musicians except

for Charles Tyler and Hal Russell. They both gave me audition tapes,

etc.

>

> 7) What were some of the criteria that helped you select artists

> and/or recordings for the label? Was the label directly responsible

> for recording all of the sessions you issued, or did some artists

> bring you sessions that were already recorded in the hope of having

> them released? How often did you choose to not issue recordings once

> they were "in the can"?

While in France, the Art Ensemble recorded 2 lps for EMI. The guys

arranged for EMI to contact me about releasing them in the States,

so ultimately I licensed these from EMI.

I licensed recordings by Ben Webster and Lucky Thompson from Ensayo,

a Spanish label. I purchased 2 lps by Bobby Bradford and John Stevens

from Black Lion/Freedom, an English company.

Both Charles Tyler and Fred Anderson sold me tapes for their

recordings. I both cases, they were unmixed, unedited session tapes,

and we got them ready for release.

If memory serves everything else originated with the label.

>

> 8) Was the label financed solely by album sales, or did you also

> receive assistance from foundations, the government, or other outside

> sources? How about now?

Answered above. No grants, etc.

>

> 9) Cadence Magazine, which has become the monthly bible for this genre

> of music, only has a monthly worldwide circulation of about 10,000.

> That's pretty indicative of the small market share for this music. How

> many copies of the average Nessa release could you reasonably expect

> to sell in, say, 1968? And how many new releases and/or reissues can

> you move per year today?

Back then when the music was new, 1 or 2 thousand was probably about it.

Then maybe 500 the 2nd year, 300 the third, etc. By the mid/late '70s

when

the label (and the music) were more established, you could see a range

of

2000 to 5000 for a new release.

Today is a totally different animal. The glut of cds, and the

competition

for the "leisure dollar" (video, computers, etc.) makes it very

difficult.

>

> 10) What are your current and future plans for the label? What would

> you like to do that you have not yet accomplished, if anything?

I still need to get my complete catalog in print before I can start

making new recordings. If I win the lottery, you will see lots of

activity.

[Guest Chaney]

Thanks for sharing that, Chuck.

[SNWOLF]

I just hope Jenkins' exposition on "free jazz" isn't as tortured and tendentious as so many earnest attempts to nail it down politically and culturally. Worst historical example of this: Kofksy.

Some modern practitioners and critics have reframed that revolutionary hyperbole in postmodern terms, so we, the listeners who enjoy this music, have to endure some dessicated post-structuralism in order to be truly edified and lifted into a pure state beyond false consciousness (I once read an egregious review in "One Final Note" where the writer had a hissy fit about someone's lapse into making some cash doing occasional Mambo gigs, and Ron Carter selling his soul for some session work. Jazz Transgression! Evil was afoot!)

I love free jazz, but as a soundtrack for slumming highborn snobs who propound the virtues of collectivism and being down with the people, when they've never SPOKEN to anyone outside their postgrad, insular milieus, sorry, but that's a major turnoff for me and so many potential listeners. I prefer to listen to this music at home, away from snooty poseurs. Only occasionally will I go and see a gig if they're truly outstanding, put on mental blinkers and soak in the music. And if it's outstanding - boy, you truly ARE transported.

[Larry Kart]

Clem, I'm sorry to hear what you say about the availibility of the book, but I'm not surprised. I think I've detected several disconnects on the line that runs back and forth from Yale U. Press to bookstores of various sorts (chains and independents) and to the distribution firms (e.g. Baker and Taylor) that usually serve as middlemen. First, the attention that Yale's editorial and sales forces are prepared to give an item like this appears to be minimal and/or distracted. For instance, after Kevin Whitehead named it toward the end of Dec. as one the best jazz books of the year on "Fresh Air," I sent an e-mail about this to my editor, to which she replied "Wonderful news." Two weeks later, she mentioned the "Fresh Air" thing in an e-mail to me (because she'd just seen it mentioned in an internal Yale U.P. newsletter) and asked if I was aware of the broadcast. I reminded her that I'd brought it to her attention in the first place. Second, a number of people have told me that when they ordered the book at their local Barnes & Noble store, they were told that the book was out of the stock at the distributor and wouldn't be back in stock for three weeks to a month. When I mentioned this problem to my editor, it immediately became clear that at Yale the editorial folks at aren't supposed to talk to the sales or distribution folks. Finally, a friend told me that when he tried to buy the book at a supposedly quality independent bookstore in Manhattan, St. Marks Books (I think that's the name), they not only didn't have it in stock but the clerk also did everything he could to discourage him from placing an order for it, apparently because doing so would involve more effort than the clerk was willing to expend at that moment. I'm beginning to think that many of the problems of the American book business are of its own making.

[johnlitweiler]

The Jenkins encyclopedia seems promising, I'd love to see it. Along with the Greenwood edition in the US, maybe he is also getting it published by an English-language publisher in another country -- a less expensive publisher, that is. It happens. For example, the Max Harrison et al. books that originated with Greenwood eventually were republished less expensively elsewhere.

[johnlitweiler]

I'm beginning to think that many of the problems of the American book business are of its own making.

Yes, they are. When a book about jazz is new, the distributor's sales force aparently flogs it just once to the bookstores. By the time the stores want to reorder, the sales force mainly cares about selling a newer batch of titles. Having listened to horror stories about the jazz recording business for the last 40+ years (and having worked in record stores for a few minutes), and also having dealt with book publishers, I can report that the recording industry is a model of efficiency, competence, and honest dealings compared to the book publishing business.

/

Chuck's comments on ESP-Dial reminded me that, awhile ago, I was in communication with both Stollman and Ross Russell -- Russell was writing a biography of Raymond Chandler at the time. Anyone know how far he got & what happened to his Chandler work?

[Joe]

IIRC, Ross Russell's papers ended up at the Ransom Center in Austin, TX.

http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/home.html

http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/research/fa/russell.ross.html

[Chuck Nessa]

Ross made all kinds of promises to me............

I developed a real affection for the guy, but nothing "real" developed.

The Schoenberg letters are revealing (for both parties).

[Randy Twizzle]

/

Chuck's comments on ESP-Dial reminded me that, awhile ago, I was in communication with both Stollman and Ross Russell -- Russell was writing a biography of Raymond Chandler at the time. Anyone know how far he got & what happened to his Chandler work?

Check out the Ross Russell Papers at the University of Texas, Boxes 33-41

http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/research/fa/russell.ross.html

as Joe said 20 minutes ago

Edited February 17, 2005 by Randy Twizzle

[marcello]

I'm beginning to think that many of the problems of the American book business are of its own making.

Larry, the major problem with big box stores such as Barnes and Noble and Borders is that if the person in charge of the "Jazz" section has no real knowledge or care for the subject, the selection and service is mediocre and slip-shod.

In that case, it's the distributor's resposibility to make sure that the product they represent is in the stores by giving the buyers a kick in the ass. There are a lot of criteria that goes into where and why you place and push a product in different markets, but it's not rocket science ( or music theory for that matter! ); it just takes some thought and hustle.

There are many lazy distributors, in music and print. If you don't get your product in the stores, nobody can expierence it.

For the record, I found mine at B&N when it first came out but since then, it hasn't been restocked.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Well, not entirely true, thanks to the online stores. Plenty of people can experience it even if it's not on the shelves of the local store.

What I found with my book was that it was in the stores during the initial push but has become harder to find now that it's two years later. But it's always been there at amazon and BN.com - which had the better prices anyway. So if someone was looking, it was easy to point them to amazon.

Mike

[marcello]

Mike, I DID buy your book through a online store, as a matter of fact, but you still have to be looking for it. One of the pleasures of a walk-in bookstore is that you can linger, browse and sample a little. Maybe you already have a interest, maybe not....

If you want exposure, you have to get it in front of people!

[Michael Fitzgerald]

So said the guy in the raincoat.......

[marcello]

Hell, THAT"S good marketing!

[AllenLowe]

well, if Russell was going to do for Chandler what he did for Bird, we're better off without that bio -

[garthsj]

This is an issue that lots of personal resonance for me. I have written and had published five books, edited close to a hundred, and been the editor of three book series ... and after all of this I am still not sure of the business model for many publishers. I can say that in the last ten years there has been an increased emphasis on the infamous "bottom line" ... and yet, there are always some publishers who are willing to take a chance on a book that they know will not make a great deal of money. I have dealt with major publishers (Little, Brown), aggressive academic publishers (Sage), and university presses (Cambridge, Minnesota), and there is one common factor among all of them ... once that baby is born (all books are like babies to their authors) you are basically on your own! Every publishing quarter a certain amount of money is set aside for promotion, and you have to fight for your share, but the bulk of these funds go to the books that the publisher feels will give the greatest return. (My first book was up against Lillian Helmann's "Scoundrel Time" .. so what chance did I have at Little, Brown?) Yes, authors fill out those information sheets requested by the promotions and marketing department, but they seldom translate this information into action. Getting reviews is one way that promotion departments help, but even there the author often has to provide the list of potential review venues, and the names of prospective reviewers (I wonder how many reviews are set up in advance?; I confess to doing this at times.)

I have known many authors to spend their own money on promotion efforts. Back in the mid-eighties one young author of a wonderful book on the effects of television published by Oxford U.P. hired a woman working out of a basement in New Hampshire to do publicity for him. The result was a number of very prestigious awards, all sorts of radio and newspaper interviews, etc. Like Larry Kart's experience, all Oxford offered him in return was a hearty "Congratulations" ... no offer to reimburse him the $4,000 or so he spent out of his own pocket. The book continues to sell, so I am sure that he has made it back .. but still ...

With the advent of the internet there has emerged new possibilities to market books ... I wonder, for instance, how many extra copies of his book Larry Kart has sold as a result of just this board .. not a great number in the grand scheme of things, but certainly more than he would have just relying on reviews and the battle for shelf space in Borders. In my own case, my most successful publishing efforts has been with an academic publisher like Sage, which has a very aggressive mail marketing program, targeting the primary user group ... there you have the classic potental for sales success ... a consumer looking for a product, and a supplier offering a choice.

Finally, the quickest way to an immediate payoff is to get your book in some sort of book club ... Pity the Jazz Book Club is no longer in operation, but then I am not sure that was a very financially successful setup at the time.

Yes .. it is a wonder that the publishing business still continues to operate .. and more books than ever get published every year!

Edited February 18, 2005 by garthsj

[epistrophy]

Hi, y'all. Various people have told me that I needed to join Organissimo because it's one of the best forums around, so I finally dragged my can over here. So far it more than lives up to the hype. Lord knows I'm tired of rec.music.bluenote...

Anyway, I know it's been a while since anyone posted on this particular topic, but as the author I feel a responsibility to answer some of the questions you folks might have about Free Jazz and Free Improvisation: An Encyclopedia. My thanks, by the way, to Chuck Nessa for clarifying our long-ago contact.

This project had a long, often annoying genesis that stretched over eight years. I was contacted by Greenwood Press in late 1995 about contributing to a seven-volume series they were formulating under the title "Jazz Companions". (I'm still not sure how they got hold of me, since at the time I had only been contributing to a small Southern California jazz tabloid for a few years.) The recently issued swing-era books by Lawrence McClellan and Dave Oliphant were also intended as parts of that series. My particular volume was supposed to cover jazz in the 1960s, with a special emphasis on free jazz.

A couple of years along, four of the authors backed out of their contracts. It was no longer viable to continue with the projected series, but Greenwood asked me (and apparently McClellan and Oliphant, though I can't speak for them) to keep working on the book as a standalone project. They made a few suggestions for redirecting the subject matter, which gradually multiplied over and over again until the final project was NOTHING like the original outline. It morphed from a 150K-word single volume on 1960s jazz into a 260K-word, two-volume reference work that covers the full range of free jazz and improvisation.

Several times along the way I let the book sit untouched for months, waiting for the folks at Greenwood to decide whether the new direction I had taken was what they wanted. Then more suggestions would be made and I'd go off on another tangent. I estimate that only 2-3% of the text from my original version made it intact into the final edition. Everything else was rewritten time and again to suit new visions. One thing was always clear: Greenwood recognized that this book could fill a huge gap in the documentation of this music.

There are a fair number of errors in the encyclopedia, due largely to the fact that many of the corrections I submitted to Greenwood's editors were not made before press time. Some of them were my own repetitions of frequently printed mistakes, like labeling Zeena and Andrea Parkins as sisters instead of cousins. Others were just boneheaded goofs on my part. (I knew FULL WELL that Dorothy Kilgallen was a columnist, but for some ungodly reason my brain led me to say that she was a singer.) Also, some of the entries were inadvertently dropped during the proofing process, including Coda Magazine, Atavistic, and Arjen Gorter, just off the top of my head. These were very unfortunate, but these things happen in the publishing industry. I regret that I originally opted to not include an entry for ECM just because so many of their releases don't fit the free-jazz mold. In hindsight, there are more than enough classic free albums on ECM that would have qualified them for an entry.

At the risk of sounding thin-skinned, I have to say that Ken Waxman's review of the encyclopedia in One Final Note mischaracterizes the book and grossly exaggerates the number of errors. (For the time being, you can read my response to his review at http://www.onefinalnote.com/mail/ .) He would apparently have his readers believe that there are dozens, perhaps hundreds of typos and other gaffes. Thus far, I have only found three typos out of 260K-plus words. Even some of the "mistakes" that Waxman pointed out in his review were incorrect on his part. The impression that I and some others got from his review was simply that Mr. Waxman wished he had written the book himself. But I'll leave it to the readers to sort those things out for themselves.

For those of you who wanted to see other reviews, here's one at All About Jazz (disclosure: I am a sometime contributor to AAJ, as are most of the other authors writing about jazz these days):

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=17438

Lawrence Looks at Books, April 2005:

http://tinyurl.com/dnkyf

Article in Library Journal (their review is apparently no longer archived, but is excerpted on Greenwood's page for the book along with several others):

http://tinyurl.com/9vxww

Having seen John Litweiler's comments about having the book republished by a foreign company, I just might take that under consideration. Greenwood is, first and foremost, a reference publisher, and their prices run accordingly. It's a double-edged sword because authors obviously make more royalties per unit if the price is higher. But there has been such a clamor for this book among the general market that it would be nice if it were more readily affordable for the average reader. We'll see how all that shapes up. For now, if you would like to suggest that your local city, county or school library put the encyclopedia on the shelves, please direct them to:

http://www.greenwood.com/books/BookDetail.asp?sku=GR9881

Cheers,

Todd S. Jenkins

Contributor, Down Beat/All About Jazz/Signal To Noise/Route 66 Magazine

[Nate Dorward]

Todd--have you seen Ken's own writing? It might, er, make you feel better about his review of the book......