hubbard-"blue spirits"

[John L]

Can anyone recommend a live Hubbard CD?  He seems to have lots of them, but I heard one in a record store that sounded great.

Also, what do you folks think of the sessions he did with Woody Shaw (particularly Eternal Triangle)?  Maybe I'm easily impressed, but I'm bowled over every time I hear that one.

The sessions with Woody Shaw are a blast. Don't hesitate.

Among live Freddie, "Above and Beyond" gets a lot of attention. (Take a look at Scott Yanow's over-the-top review for AMG.) I am not so excited by it, personally, but it is just about as huge a display of Hubbard's virtuosity on the horn as you will ever hear. It was supposed to be a quartet date, but the sax player never showed up. Freddie took everything into his own hands. With nights like that, you can understand why his lip didn't make it through the 90s.

My own reservations about Above and Beyond are that it seems to deliver more on pyrotechnics than on substance (IMO). I like quite a bit the live disc with

Jimmy Heath that was released a few years ago on the M label.

For top flight Freddie, don't forget about the Hub of Hubbard.

Edited December 15, 2004 by John L

[Noj]

Noj, I'd be curious to know, of those Morgan albums, which would you consider to be outstanding (rather than merely good)?

I consider The Sidewinder, Search For The New Land, The Gigolo, Sonic Boom, and The Procrastinator to all be outstanding.

Gonna have to buy Hub-tones again. Doh!

[DrJ]

Well I'm glad to see nobody shot me down in flames...again my goal was not to say "Hub is better than Lee" but to say that I personally find Hub's consistency in the Blue Note period was far greater than Lee's. And to prompt a re-evaluation of Hubbard's early, pre-commericalism/showboating work, by the skeptics.

Along the same lines - people need to take a hard listen to Morgan's 50s recordings for BN. After the first couple where he was just getting his young feet on the ground, they are OUTSTANDING, and easily rank with his best of the 60s, yet for some reason just don't get much mention.

[pryan]

Tony, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you re: Lee Morgan. I'd say that most of his sixties albums are of a fairly high standard. You say most of CORNBREAD is only "middleweight"? No, sir. That album ranks up with Lee's best albums period. Every tune is solid, with "Our Man Higgins" and "Ceora" as particular highlights. That "Ceora" trumpet solo is one for the ages, not to mention Herbie's 32 bar intro. THE SIXTH SENSE has some killer tunes/solos on it also; that album is very underrated, you should give it another listen. SEARCH..., TARU, SIDEWINDER, PROCRASTINATOR, LEE-WAY are all superior trumpet-led albums. His fifties stuff is good, especially when you consider how young Lee was when the albums were cut, but the sixties stuff is far superior (it features better Morgan trumpet solos and he has an ever-increasing hand in writing his own tunes. The Vee-Jay material, IMO, is better than the fifties BN stuff. CANDY is probably the best of the fifties stuff, but that's not to disparage the other albums contained on that now OOP Mosaic set (my first ever). The date w/ Pepper is smokin' too, particularly the "Tunisia" solo by Lee.

[chris olivarez]

James Spaulding wrecked "Blue Spirits" for me and he wrecked "Night of the Cookers".

[pryan]

James Spaulding wrecked "Blue Spirits" for me and he wrecked "Night of the Cookers".

In what way? Can you mention some specific examples of his "wrecking"?

I wasn't the biggest fan of Spaulding at first, but I've grown to dig him a fair bit.

[chris olivarez]

His playing is just a bit too avant garde for me. Not that it's wrong it just doesn't work for me. Admittedly it worked better on "Blue Spirits" but I just don't like his sound - it sounds like fresh chalk on a blackboard to me.

On "Night Of The Cookers" it just wasn't a good fit IMO. It just seemed like he was out of step with the rest of the group.

[Free For All]

The date w/ Pepper is smokin' too, particularly the "Tunisia" solo by Lee.

The Cooker.

I think The Cooker and Candy ("Since I Fell for You" is so perfect!) might be my favorite 50s Lee, maybe my favorite of all Lee.

He refined and matured on the later sides, but the energy and swing on those early sides are really inspiring, meaning I always feel like playing after listening to either of those.

EDIT: I couldn't choose between Freddie and Lee. I love 'em both.

Edited December 16, 2004 by Free For All

[wolff]

I just don't like his sound - it sounds like fresh chalk on a blackboard to me.

His sound reminds me of Mclean. His playing does not build like Mclean's , though. He poops out on 'Outer Forces'.

[JSngry]

For later live Freddie, I'd recommend the Keystone sessions on OJC w/Joe & Hutch.

I've heard a bootleg somewhere that's just nuts. The chops are used totally in service to the music. But I don't know where/when it's from or who's on it. Just heard it once at a party.

But get it if you can!

[pryan]

The date w/ Pepper is smokin' too, particularly the "Tunisia" solo by Lee.

The Cooker.

I think The Cooker and Candy ("Since I Fell for You" is so perfect!) might be my favorite 50s Lee, maybe my favorite of all Lee.

He refined and matured on the later sides, but the energy and swing on those early sides are really inspiring, meaning I always feel like playing after listening to either of those.

EDIT: I couldn't choose between Freddie and Lee. I love 'em both.

Those two are killer. The quartet date is all the more impressive as Lee is the only horn (ie. only one playing a wind instrument). "Since I Fell For You" is a fave for me too; when I used to play trumpet, I spent a while one day working on some of Lee's passages on that one. A lot of that solo is based on the blues scale - the tune is not a "blues", but has very bluesy elements to the structure/feel (see also Stanley Turrentine's version on his BLUE HOUR album for further evidence of the blues influence on this tune).

[pryan]

His playing is just a bit too avant garde for me. Not that it's wrong it just doesn't work for me. Admittedly it worked better on "Blue Spirits" but I just don't like his sound

HAH!! chalk it up that sound then, which I don't like either, bc i've NEVER heard of a committed avant-gardeist who thinks Spaulding was all that much. there is a legend that he was too much his own man, his own artist, to record as a leader but i can barely stand him as sideman. an ok color, i suppose, if you want THAT color but an almost aggressively dull soloist. i'd be happy to hear again any exceptions ya'll would like to cite but, years later, Spaulding didn't impress me when i saw him in the Murray Big Band so...

cr

HUB-TONES features Spaulding a fair bit (although Freddie clearly steals the show solo-wise) and he plays pretty well.

[DrJ]

Pryan:

That "Ceora" trumpet solo is one for the ages,

Hell, no argument here - that whole tune is a masterpiece. But therein lies my point - CORNBREAD has 2 or so GREAT tunes and the rest are merely good. Nearly every mid to later 60s Lee Morgan album fits that description for me....again I listen to 'em often, long, and loud and dig 'em, but in a way it's their very UN-evenness that I enjoy. SIXTH SENSE is a good example - fun throughout, some great moments along the way, but in NO WAY a great album by any measure I can see.

After PROCRASTINATOR and SIDEWINDER, SEARCH FOR THE NEW LAND comes close to greatness...I've always been really fond of CARAMBA! for some reason, "Suicide City" gets me every time...and THE GIGOLO is awful close too. But everything else to me is a notch below from a consistency standpoint until the excellent LIGHTHOUSE and LEE MORGAN double LP finish.

The later 50s Morgan stuff (the ones after the first couple, where as I say he was just maturing) are uniformly great...I agree with whoever said THE COOKER and CANDY are timeless great ones, and I'd definitely add PECKIN' TIME (Mobley's name as leader but this has always felt to me like more of a co-led date). These rank easily with his best work, and are far more consistent than most of his 60s sessions - during that period as I say I believe he only made a couple or three outright classic recordings (start to finish, every tune).

Freddie's BNs, on the other hand...well, other than BLUE SPIRITS (half great) and NIGHT OF THE COOKERS (fun for "Pensativa" but imminently and rapidly forgettable after that) there's not a clunker anywhere, solid greatness. That's all for me, by the way - your mileage may vary.

BTW I like Spaulding, quite a lot, mostly his tone - as a soloist, in those BN days he WAS limited in terms of ideas, falling back on patterns but his Muse recordings reveal that he really grew in that area. A quality player.

Edited December 16, 2004 by DrJ

[pryan]

Pryan:

That "Ceora" trumpet solo is one for the ages,

Hell, no argument here - that whole tune is a masterpiece. But therein lies my point - CORNBREAD has 2 or so GREAT tunes and the rest are merely good. Nearly every mid to later 60s Lee Morgan album fits that description for me....again I listen to 'em often, long, and loud and dig 'em, but in a way it's their very UN-evenness that I enjoy. SIXTH SENSE is a good example - fun throughout, some great moments along the way, but in NO WAY a great album by any measure I can see.

I would venture that "Ill Wind" is also a great tune on this superlative album. Herbie's solo is incredible, if not quite reaching the heights of say his solo on "Circle" from MILES SMILES, then pretty damn close. His classical/funky/blues/bop thing is in full effect and it all melds together into a kind of utter beauty that is perhaps unsurpassed (for that kind of soloing) to this day in jazz piano. Lee sounds great in a rare muted excursion, with Jackie and Hank filling in with some background support. The last tune, "Most Like Lee", is above-average hard-bop at the very least. This is a great album, ranking up there with Lee's best, at least in the top three or five, IMO.

I think your lower ranking of CORNBREAD may also have to do with the fact that listening to a lot of those sixties BN sessions kind of spoils the listener. There wasn't too many duds and many of the albums were"classics". I actually almost consider this one a classic; it's heavy shit, give it another spin.

[Noj]

I almost posted last night that I should have included Cornbread, with "Ill Wind" in mind.

[sal]

......but I just don't like his sound - it sounds like fresh chalk on a blackboard to me.

I've never liked James Spaulding much, but for some reason I've always had a hard time describing exactly why I don't like him. I think chris' quote above hits the nail right on the head. Thanks chris!