Charles Lloyd Corner

[Guest youmustbe]

I might have posted this before, but there is 10 minute duet, Charles and Billy that didn't make the Acoustic Masters album, because I was too stupid not to edit it to just the last 6 minutes and put it on. Kills!

One of the best Charles gigs, and I told him, was 1989 in Istanbul, with Bobo, Palle and Jon Christiansen. Last gig of tour, Charles was not talking to Palle and Jon...great music...I'd share video but on Beta and don't have a machine anymore.

Problem with Charles, like a lot of older musicians who still got IT, is that there is almost no one to challange them. It's a different time, and younger musicians, even a Geri Allen, are mediocre, compared to the shit that Charles came up in and had to prove himself to and thrive.

Just the way it is.

[Parkertown]

I've just started wading into the Lloyd Atlantic sets.  So far I've picked up:

Forest Flower-original stereo pressing (minty vinyl)

Love-In (4 Men With Beards pressing;    )

Live at Fillmore-original stereo pressing (minty vinyl)

Live in USSR-original stereo pressing (minty vinyl)

I'm really diggin' what I'm hearing.  Nice to hear Jarrett playing on the edge...

But this morning, after reading this thread, I put on Forest Flower after hearing all the praise.  I had just played the Canadian pressing of Genesis' "Spot The Pigeon" EP and forgot to change the speed from 45rpm to 33& 1/3 rpm. 

I thought they had all gone crazy!  Jarrett's solo on the first track is wild enough at the correct speed; at 45rpm, it's out of the stratosphere!

  B-) 

Jarrett was quite a little monster back in the day. One of my favorite "Jarrett with Lloyd" bits is his solo on "Autumn Leaves" (from Dream Weaver).

Guy

I still haven't been able to find a reasonably priced vinyl copy of this lp in what I'd consider an acceptable condition. The ones I mentioned above are in fantastic shape and sound incredible!

[stevebop]

For anyone interested I'll be playing two hours of Charles Lloyd on my radio show tomorrow, Friday night, March 11th, from 8p-10p.

I have his first two albums as a leader, both on Columbia, "Discovery' and "Of Course, Of Course." I'll be playing from both of them. Tune in if you can

Also, March 15th is his 67th birthday.

Also, he'll be playing as Scullers jazz Club in Boston on April 14-15

[Guy Berger]

I've just started wading into the Lloyd Atlantic sets. So far I've picked up:

Forest Flower-original stereo pressing (minty vinyl)

Love-In (4 Men With Beards pressing; )

Live at Fillmore-original stereo pressing (minty vinyl)

Live in USSR-original stereo pressing (minty vinyl)

2 questions:

1) What's the difference between Love In (which was recorded at the Fillmore) and Live at Fillmore? I have the former, not the latter. What tracks are on it?

2) How does the USSR album compare to Forest Flower and Love In?

And a comment: get a copy of Soundtrack (which is available on Rhino as a 2on1 w/FF) -- there's an extremely grooving version of "Sombrero Sam" on there, as well as an excellent funky "Forest Flower".

Guy

[Guy Berger]

For anyone interested I'll be playing two hours of Charles Lloyd on my radio show tomorrow, Friday night, March 11th, from 8p-10p.

I have his first two albums as a leader, both on Columbia, "Discovery' and "Of Course, Of Course." I'll be playing from both of them. Tune in if you can

Also, March 15th is his 67th birthday.

Also, he'll be playing as Scullers jazz Club in Boston on April 14-15

Is this going to be archived online somewhere? Unfortunately I'm going to be on airplane and really want to hear those albums!

Guy

[stevebop]

Guy: I won't be playing those Columbia's in there entirity but they will be in the show.

The program will be available on demand thru the website at some point but there is a backlog for my shows so it may not show up for a month or a couple of months.

Check www.wgbh.org/jazz occasionally and it will show up eventually. You'll be able to hear the entire two hours.

[Parkertown]

I've just started wading into the Lloyd Atlantic sets.  So far I've picked up:

Forest Flower-original stereo pressing (minty vinyl)

Love-In (4 Men With Beards pressing;    )

Live at Fillmore-original stereo pressing (minty vinyl)

Live in USSR-original stereo pressing (minty vinyl)

2 questions:

1) What's the difference between Love In (which was recorded at the Fillmore) and Live at Fillmore? I have the former, not the latter. What tracks are on it?

2) How does the USSR album compare to Forest Flower and Love In?

And a comment: get a copy of Soundtrack (which is available on Rhino as a 2on1 w/FF) -- there's an extremely grooving version of "Sombrero Sam" on there, as well as an excellent funky "Forest Flower".

Guy

1) I believe it is music recorded from the same time/sessions as Love-In.

2) I haven't listened to the USSR album enough yet, maybe once, for it to really sink in yet. I believe Sangry gave it a earlier in the thread. I'll be listening again soon...

I have my eye on a mint Stereo copy of Soundtrack. They want friggin' $15 for the damn thing. My vinyl habit is gonna break me yet...

Thanks for the rec's, Guy.

[Guy Berger]

Anybody who's read the liner notes to All My Relations is probably familiar with this story, but here it is:

I began working gigs with Blues cats, Roscoe Gordon (Bobby Blue Bland was in his band), B. B. King, Howlin' Wolf, Johnny Ace.  On my first gig with Roscoe Gordon, we all piled into a beat up station wagon, crossed the bridge over the great, wide, mighti Mississippi to Arkansas.  I sat in the very back of the station wagon, mismatched blue suit and all.  On the way there, Bobby Blue Bland said to me, "Junior, you can mess up on any song you want, but if you mess up on "Peaches" I'm goin' to whip your ass.  "Peaches" is my theme song."  I was scared all night, he was such a big man.  During the intermission at midnight I ran to the station wagon to hide until the next set.  Bobby came out looking for me and found me in the car.  I trembled as he reached for me.  But he hugged me and said, "Junior, ain't nobody played "Peaches" as good as you played it tonight."  To this day, I still don't know which song was "Peaches"...

[mrjazzman]

imo he didn't sustain what he achieved with forest flower............

[Guy Berger]

imo he didn't sustain what he achieved with forest flower............

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I agree -- his playing was better before and after that album.

Guy

[Rosco]

Just happened upon a DVD of Charles Lloyd Live in Montreal. Great band; Geri Allen, John Abercrombie, Marc Johnson and Billy Hart. Two hours plus a 35 minute interview. Enjoying it a lot.

There's some... uh... *interesting* stage banter from Lloyd during the gig. Good to see the spirit of the 60s lives on!

Any thoughts on Lloyd's 2002 album Lift Every Voice? I saw a second hand copy for sale the other day and passed on it. I may go back for it. The DVD has whetted my appetite.

[Guy Berger]

Any thoughts on Lloyd's 2002 album Lift Every Voice?

I don't think it's Lloyd's best for ECM, but if you like the other ECMs you'll probably like this one. Some great stuff on here -- "Blood Count", the Silvio Rodriguez tunes, "Amazing Grace", the flute tune on the second disc. Parts of the second disc ramble.

Guy

[SEK]

Any thoughts on Lloyd's 2002 album Lift Every Voice?

It's my least favorite Charles Lloyd ECM.

"Canto" is my favorite; I think that all of his recordings with Bobo Stenson are worthwhile. "Hyperion With Higgins" is a nice ECM session with another tight ensemble backing him.

[md655321]

The Penguin guide to Jazz says about Lloyd that at one time he was so terminally uncool that it was considered a faux pas to mention in him in certain circles.

Im too oung to have any idea what this means, can anyone enligten me?

[chris olivarez]

The Penguin guide to Jazz says about Lloyd that at one time he was so terminally uncool that it was considered a faux pas to mention in him in certain circles.

Im too oung to have any idea what this means, can anyone enligten me?

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Possibly due to the fact that he had the Beach Boys on one of his albums and he sells real estate?

[brownie]

The Penguin guide to Jazz says about Lloyd that at one time he was so terminally uncool that it was considered a faux pas to mention in him in certain circles.

Im too oung to have any idea what this means, can anyone enligten me?

←

Charles Lloyd really started making a name for himself in the mid-sixties at the same time that some of the greats of the tenor saxophonists (from Coltrane down to Ayler with people like Pharoah, Shepp, Gilmore in between) were making giant steps. Lloyd played a sanitized version of the new music - he tasted like a Canada Dry when compared to the real thing - and that antagonised quite a number of people!

[Rosco]

Interesting to read the less than enthusiastic comments re: Lift Every Voice. The DVD has the same band and it's really quite good.

It was going cheap so I may still pick it up, caveats noted.

He sells real estate? Didn't know that. The idea of Charles Lloyd trying to sell me a house is too surreal to contemplate.

[Guy Berger]

Charles Lloyd really started making a name for himself in the mid-sixties at the same time that some of the greats of the tenor saxophonists (from Coltrane down to Ayler with people like Pharoah, Shepp, Gilmore in between) were making giant steps. Lloyd played a sanitized version of the new music - he tasted like a Canada Dry when compared to the real thing - and that antagonised quite a number of people!

I guess I don't really buy this interpretation. Lloyd's quartet made music that straddled soul jazz, free jazz, and post-bop -- nothing sanitized about that, it was just the music they were making. I agree that as a saxophonist wasn't one of the giants of the period, and that he's not in the same class as Wayne, Trane, Sam Rivers or (at his best) Ayler. But I don't think his late 60s playing is any more watered-down than that of Pharoah Sanders.

I definitely agree, though, that he was overhyped at the time. The (maybe excessive) reaction against him afterward was a natural response to that hype.

Guy

Edited June 17, 2005 by Guy Berger

[Guy Berger]

Listening to Journey Within. (On Collectables along with In Europe.) DAMN, this is one of the best albums I've heard from this group.

Guy

[sal]

I'm starting to think that this year's "Jumping the Creek" might be his best ECM session.

[jazzbo]

I think that's a great cd. . . though i wish there were more depth to the recording itself.

[Stereojack]

Well, I've come to this thread pretty late, but I'd like to add a few comments.

I first discovered Lloyd back in the 1960's on Chico Hamilton's "Drumfusion". Although his playing was Trane-inspired, I liked his passion and his compositional skills. Perhaps my favorite Hamilton with Lloyd is "Man From Two Worlds" (Impulse), featuring the original (and superior) version of "Forest Flower". "Passin' Through" (Impulse) and "A Different Journey" (Reprise) are also very good. Someone close to the Paul Butterfield Band once told me (and you can hear it) that "Passin' Through" was one of the inspirations for "East-West".

I saw Lloyd several times back in the mid 1960's in Boston and New York, just after he had left Cannonball and was putting together his quartet with Keith Jarrett. At the time he was signed to Columbia, and had released two excellent LP's, "Discovery" and "Of Course, Of Course", which featured Ron Carter and Tony Williams, who had worked with Lloyd whenever Miles was off.

I felt that with "Forest Flower" his playing became, to these ears, diluted, as if his flute playing had influenced his tenor, and not for the better. His popularity soared in the late 60's, as much for the "beads & bell bottoms" image as for the music, which was rather ordinary, I felt. The last time I saw him was around 1972, playing maracas on stage with the Beach Boys. Some of you may already know that he plays on two Beach Boys tracks, "Trancendental Meditation" and "Feel Flows". The Boys, in turn, appear on his albums "Waves" and "Warm Waters".

I have liked, but have not been blown away by, his recent stuff on ECM. It does seem more focused that the late 60's playing.

[JSngry]

I definitely agree, though, that he was overhyped at the time.  The (maybe excessive) reaction against him afterward was a natural response to that hype.

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Have you seen that Jazz Casual spot of Lloyd's? There are gyrations and facial expressions worthy of the very worst rock bands of the time. If Spinal Tap was to ever hire a tenor player, they'd use this set as a role model of how the guy should behave while playing. And Jarrett ain't no better...

I'm somebody who'd always liked that era Lloyd as "good music" of a usually smaller scale than a lot of other things from the same time, and felt, like you, that the backlash was mostly a combination of reaction against his popularity relative to the overall "heaviness" of the music. But frankly, after seeing those tortuous (and less than convincing) stage moves, I understood the backlash much better.

[Guy Berger]

I'm starting to think that this year's "Jumping the Creek" might be his best ECM session.

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Really? Even better than Canto? In that case I'm really psyched to hear it when today's yourmusic shipment gets here.

Got to the second half of the Collectables issue (In Europe), which was excellent as well. While I agree with Jack W that some of Lloyd's tenor playing from this period sounds diluted (particularly on Forest Flower and, worse yet, on Soundtrack), that was definitely not the case on these two albums. In addition there's some superb flute playing.

Guy

[JSngry]

Some of you may already know that he plays on two Beach Boys tracks, "Trancendental Meditation" and "Feel Flows". The Boys, in turn, appear on his albums "Waves" and "Warm Waters".

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Are you sure about those being the cuts?