Louis and Wingy

[trane123]

Just wondering if there were any thoughts about the Prima/Manone Mosaic set. I'm currently reading the Robert Hilbert Pee Wee Russell biography and he has a lot of nice things to say about Pee Wee's playing during his time with Prima. Hilbert seems to say that this is important music that (at the time the book was written) was out of print mostly due to the fact that jazz people had a problem with Prima's "style".

So, any impressions out there? Thanks.

[jazzbo]

There's been a LITTLE discussion of this material on the board, not much.

I preordered this set and really like it. I'm a Wingy fan and a Pee Wee fan and it was a must. I actually had nearly all the material on other cds, and got the set anyway. . . I'm loony like that.

The music is GREAT if you like the early material, if you like Pee Wee. . . . The stuff with Pee Wee IS my favorite Prima stuff, though I like some of the stuff before and after as well, I like Prima up through the thirties fine, very jazzy, very New Orleans-y. The Wingy stuff is great as well, some wonderful sidemen and I'm a fan of Wingy's singing and playing. The pairing of these two groups of recordigns WORKS in my opinion.

On top of that, the sound is very good. When I first got it I felt that the sound was a little bright. Since then my system has changed and that is not a problem.

[Bright Moments]

B-)

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...c=9377&hl=wingy

[Harold_Z]

It's a good set. Lon described it really well. Small group Swing and Dixie and it's interchangeable. I think it's revealing that jazz went through it's New Orleans/Chicago period into the Swing deal and that the 40's Dixieland/Nicksieland (which led to the 50s NYC Dixie scene) incorporated the Swing deal as much as the earlier New Orleans/Chi deal. In other words 40s NYC Dixie was as much a 40s thing as BeBop, in so far as it couldn't have happened any earlier than it did.

[bertrand]

I refuse to buy the wingy set after witnessing his behavior on various jazz forums, this one included.

Bertrand.

[trane123]

Thanks for the responses. I've really been enjoying the Pee Wee bio. I'll probably have to pick this set up.

...Oh, hell, who am I kidding - Of course I'll pick this set up. Maybe sooner than later.

[jazzbo]

Yes, I really like that bio of Pee Wee as well and reading it made me run through a whole flock of Chicago Style recordings. . . ! Man Pee Wee. . .I just love his musical mind!

[Free For All]

...Oh, hell, who am I kidding - Of course I'll pick this set up.  Maybe sooner than later.

We wouldn't expect any less of you!

[Adam]

up for the sale.

Has anyone else bought it?

[Bright Moments]

I refuse to buy the wingy set after witnessing his behavior on various jazz forums, this one included.

Bertrand.

what are you talking about?

[medjuck]

I saw Wingy play in Paris once at a left bank club! It was fun but didn't impress me enough to run out an buy any records. However, I'm nuts about Pee Wee and he may play on enough cuts here to make me consider buying this set.

[jazzbo]

I refuse to buy the wingy set after witnessing his behavior on various jazz forums, this one included.

Bertrand.

what are you talking about?

It's a joke Evan. DEEP posted here on this board as WINGY. . . and Bertrand is referring to DEEP (Danny D'Imperio)'s behavior.

[jazzbo]

I saw Wingy play in Paris once at a left bank club! It was fun but didn't impress me enough to run out an buy any records. However, I'm nuts about Pee Wee and he may play on enough cuts here to make me consider buying this set.

I'm a big fan of Wingy from start to finish, but these earlier Wingy sides are HOT!

And there's really not enough Pee Wee on this set, but what is there is really good!

[Bright Moments]

I refuse to buy the wingy set after witnessing his behavior on various jazz forums, this one included.

Bertrand.

what are you talking about?

It's a joke Evan. DEEP posted here on this board as WINGY. . . and Bertrand is referring to DEEP (Danny D'Imperio)'s behavior.

ah thx - that went over my head!

i have the box and dig it!

[brownie]

I am sticking to some of the Wingy Manone volumes that came out on Classics. I enjoy those but don't feel the need to go complete on him.

[jazzbo]

With the right Classics I think you can have almost all this, don't remember how many alternates there are.

Also, the Danish label Collector's Classics put out some excellent volumes of the best of the Wingy sides with excellent sound. So sad those discs aren't easy to find at all; there are a few that I missed and I would recommend the Henry Red Allen dics to many peoople if I felt they could find them.

[Adam]

up

[Van Basten II]

I listened to the first CD of the box set. Despite the hsss which are understandable considering that the music is 70 years old the sound is pretty good.

Gotta say did not know much about the Prima of that era, so i basically listened to it with virgin ears. You could already ear in Prima's way of singing the entertainer that he'll become later in his life.

Among the highlights of the first cd i have to mention It's the rythm in me quite reminiscing of Sing, sing, sing and the 4 cuts with Pee Wee Russell in the band.

So far so good.

I decide to write back the posts i've written to start a thread about that set, note to the mods you erase the thread i started.

Edited August 26, 2006 by Van Basten II

[king ubu]

Digging into this one again... I played the Prima parts back when I got this (must have been a while after it was running low but it seems I didn't post anything about it back then). Anyway, very enjoyable music! The small groups with Pee Wee Russell are the best part of it, I think!

Now I just finished disc 3 with the first Wingy (how is that pronounced anyway, as in "wing" or with a "j" as in "joe"?), and I took out the 1927-1934 Classics and I'm a bit puzzled, as there are some dates that aren't in the Mosaic - why is that so? I did read some of the notes in the booklet, but I may have overread it... Ah, I get it's the 1931 Vocalion ownership divide again? Too bad! The Mosaic is from 2002, shortly after that Universal opened their vaults for them...)

The dates in question are:

Joe "Wingy" Manone and his Club Royale Orchestra

Wingy Manone (cnt,vcl), Wade Foster (cl), Bud Freeman (ts), Jack Gardner (p), Gene Krupa (d)

Chicago, September 4, 1928

C-2292 Downright Disgusted

C-2293 Fare Thee Well

Wingy Manone (tp,vcl), Frank Teschmacher (cl), George Snurpus (ts), Art Hodes (p), Ray Biondi (g), Augie Schellange (d)

Chicago, December 17, 1928

C-2682-B Trying to Stop My Crying

C-2683 Isn't There a Little Love ?

Then there are these two, done for Gennett:

Barbecue Joe and his Hot Dogs

Wingy Manone (tp,vcl), George Walters (cl), Joe Dunn (ts), Maynard Spencer (p), Dash Burkis (d)

Richmond, Indiana, August 28, 1930

16949-B Tin Roof Blues (unissued)

GS16950-C Shake That Thing

GS16951 Tar Paper Stomp [Wingy's Stomp]

16952 Up the Country (unissued)

Bob Price (tp-1), Ed Camden (tp-1), Miff Frink (tb), Orville Haynes (tu) added, unknown (bj) added.

Richmond, Indiana, September 19, 1930

17058 Up the Country Blues

GN17059-E Tin Roof Blues

GN17060 Weary Blues (wm vcl)

17061 Big Butter and Egg Man (1)

All four dates (minus the two unissued titles from the third, of course) are on Classics 774 (Wingy Manone and His Orchestra 1927-1934).

(edited to add fourth date, sorry for my goof!)

Edited April 21, 2009 by king ubu

[king ubu]

the pronunciation seems to be as in "wing", indeed... they sometimes mention the names in their banter (mostly Wingy and Nappy Lamare but sometimes others join in the fun...

[jazzbo]

Yeah, he's nicknamed "Wingy" because he only had one wing. . . get it?

Anyway, those dates are not in the box set because the ownership is not the same as those covered in the box set.

[king ubu]

Thanks Lon! I realized that myself... still a pity, as those few sides would have easily fit in and nowadays Universal often leases material to Mosaic.

Didn't realize that about the "wing"... but it makes sense now that you mention it!

[jazzbo]

Yes, but Universal doesn't own Gennett, etc. I don't think.

[king ubu]

Yes, but Universal doesn't own Gennett, etc. I don't think.

Yes, I don't think so either. (But whoever owns it doesn't seem to care much...)

How are Wingy's later recordings for RCA? Worth looking for a few of the Classics?

[crisp]

Thanks Lon! I realized that myself... still a pity, as those few sides would have easily fit in and nowadays Universal often leases material to Mosaic.

But Mosaic never(?) releases sets mixing music owned by different companies, unless it can be branched off on a separate disc, as with the RCA disc of the otherwise all-EMI-owned Illinois Jacquet set. I think it's because the parent company manufactures the discs for Mosaic as well as leasing the music.

Regarding this issue, I'd like to see Mosaic release a select collecting some of the odds and ends left off the big boxes due to these rights issues. It would be an interesting mix. The Bix set was another one affected.