Bright Moments Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 I just finished listening to the RVG of "The Stylings of Silver." Farmer on Trumpet, Mobley on Sax. EXCELLENT! B) Yanow says "non-essential." he is WRONG!! This set is great and Horace is in top form! Has Horace ever put out a bad album? Quote
Dan Gould Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 I'm with you, Evan. I never knew Yanow panned it like that, I consider it one of Horace's all-time best. I used their version of "My One and Only Love" at my Wedding, in fact. This was one of those albums that I saw for the first time in the first blue Note album cover book and wanted it immediately; it took a while but I found a Liberty pressing a few years ago and I finally heard it, definitely NOT something that didn't live up to its promise. Quote
Leeway Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 Has Horace ever put out a bad album? Well, he made a lot of really fine albums, but there were some more dubious efforts. This could be one of them: Silver 'n Strings Play the Music of the Spheres Generally, I'm not enthralled with much of his post-Blue Note work. Quote
BruceH Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 You guys are so right, and Yanow is so wrong! I didn't realize he gave "Stylings" such a lukewarm review. It's certainly a four-star album in MY book! In fact, it serves to demonstrate that Art Farmer may be just a tad underrated. He and Mobley make a great team, and the compositions are strong. Quote
Jim R Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 AMG is so review-oriented and review-driven, I've always gotten the sense that they always want to create a distinct heirarchy among the recordings for each artist, whereby a lot of excellent recordings get slighted only because they're not as good (or as popular, perhaps) as that artist's absolute best-known and best-loved works. I say "sense" because I don't (really, honestly) often read their reviews, at least not in their entirety. To me, it makes almost no sense to put so much credence in their reviews, as so many seem to do. Same with the Penguin guide, IMO. I'm not trying to dump on Yanow, BTW, who I think is one of their best. It's just that he's ONE guy. It's ONE opinion. Of course it's fine to consider Yanow's opinion, and post about it, or whatever. But sometimes I get the impression that people want to be led too much by AMG in their thinking and their purchasing. Just my opinion. Maybe AMG's screw-up of their site revamping will cut down on this terrible problem. Anyway, getting back to the heirarchy idea, it seems to me that this approach works better for some artists than it does for others. Artists who are restless, progressive, eclectic, etc, are more likely to have ups and downs (especially from the viewpoint of one reviewer) than artists who prefer to stay more in the same general groove most of the time, where you pretty much know what to expect with each recording. I'm talking in generalities here, but basically, someone like Horace Silver (especially during his run during the classic Blue Note era) was very consistent, IMO, and comparing those recordings is highly subjective as compared to an artist who takes more stylistic chances or includes more variety in the production and structure of the music. I happen to be one who digs a lot of artists like Silver, even though I usually know what to expect. I remember debating this with Yanow, in fact, some years ago at either JCS or Jazz Corner. The topic was Kenny Burrell, and Yanow was basically trashing some of Burrell's (IMO) best stuff, simply because it wasn't pushing any envelopes. Quote
Swinging Swede Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 Yanow doesn't exactly pan this album: The 1957 Horace Silver Quintet (featuring trumpeter Art Farmer and tenor-saxophonist Hank Mobley) is in top form on this date, particularly on "My One and Only Love" and their famous version of "Home Cookin'." All of Silver's Blue Note quintet recordings are consistently superb and swinging and, although not essential, this is a very enjoyable set. ~ Scott Yanow, All Music Guide Quote
Bright Moments Posted July 29, 2004 Author Report Posted July 29, 2004 Yanow doesn't exactly pan this album: The 1957 Horace Silver Quintet (featuring trumpeter Art Farmer and tenor-saxophonist Hank Mobley) is in top form on this date, particularly on "My One and Only Love" and their famous version of "Home Cookin'." All of Silver's Blue Note quintet recordings are consistently superb and swinging and, although not essential, this is a very enjoyable set. ~ Scott Yanow, All Music Guide and then he gives it 3 stars. 3 stars!! PLEASE! Quote
brownie Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 and then he gives it 3 stars. 3 stars!! PLEASE! Jeez! French chef Bernard Loiseau committed suicide last year after learning he might lose his third star in his very highly-rated restaurant in Burgundy. Hope Horace Silver does not lose sleep over a three-star AMG rating! Quote
Stefan Wood Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 There are a few Horace Silver gems from recent years. Jazz Has a Sense of Humor, issued on Verve, is an excellent album, done in the 90's. Quote
Dan Gould Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 "very enjoyable" yet "not essential". I think Yanow should have done a better job (or made some effort) to explain why an album can be very enjoyable but not essential. What keeps it below the other, presumbably essential albums? Perhaps we are nitpicking what is overall a positive review, but I think Jim R. is on to something. Here's my review of Yanow's review: "A worthwhile review, but not essential. Every critic has his off-days, and while Yanow's hits far outweigh his misses, he doesn't quite come through on this one. Maybe he was a bit constipated, or perhaps he had just gotten some positive but less than thrilling news, but Yanow seems to take out his own frustration on Silver, as he chooses to praise faintly with his seemingly contradictory phrase, "although not essential, a very enjoyable set." Quote
sal Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 Yanow doesn't exactly pan this album: The 1957 Horace Silver Quintet (featuring trumpeter Art Farmer and tenor-saxophonist Hank Mobley) is in top form on this date, particularly on "My One and Only Love" and their famous version of "Home Cookin'." All of Silver's Blue Note quintet recordings are consistently superb and swinging and, although not essential, this is a very enjoyable set. ~ Scott Yanow, All Music Guide and then he gives it 3 stars. 3 stars!! PLEASE! I thought the stars rating system at AMG was the average rating of the staff, not just the single reviewer. Quote
robviti Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 (edited) for the sake of argument, which blue note recordings by the horace silver quintet between 1956 and 1968 do you consider nonessential? Edited July 29, 2004 by jazzshrink Quote
Dan Gould Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 I thought the stars rating system at AMG was the average rating of the staff, not just the single reviewer. I'm certain you are wrong. You were thinking, what, they have one person write up the review but everyone listens and gives a rating? Quote
Bright Moments Posted July 29, 2004 Author Report Posted July 29, 2004 Here's my review of Yanow's review: "A worthwhile review, but not essential. Every critic has his off-days, and while Yanow's hits far outweigh his misses, he doesn't quite come through on this one. Maybe he was a bit constipated, or perhaps he had just gotten some positive but less than thrilling news, but Yanow seems to take out his own frustration on Silver, as he chooses to praise faintly with his seemingly contradictory phrase, "although not essential, a very enjoyable set." Quote
Michael Fitzgerald Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 Yawn - oh why bother? Yanow and a bunch of the other people writing for the dreaded allmusic site are basically clueless, simply regurgitating cliches (and hammering them into the reader's head by sheer repetition) and received wisdom. Besides - if you like a record and give it five stars, does it really matter whether someone else gives it three? Do you need validation for your opinion? These writers have little or nothing to go on when they make their pronouncements and yet (apparently) people are taking them seriously, simply because they're on a (buggy, error-ridden, incomplete) website. What bothers me is that one writer (Ron Wynn) pegs Steve Kuhn as having a "derivative style" - then does nothing to identify of WHOM or WHAT it is derivative. I can almost take Yanow's received wisdom about how Don Friedman started off as a Bill Evans clone [not true, of course, but oft said], but Kuhn? On the other hand, a different writer (Thom Jurek) tells us that "Kuhn's style is signature" and a third (Ken Dryden) tells us, "Predictable is not an adjective associated with the recordings of pianist Steve Kuhn." So, derivative yes, predictable no? Obviously this guy Wynn was out of his tree. And out of his depth. I've frequently ranted about the problems in the basic discographical data, but the written reviews are just as bad. Errors of basic factual history are there too - we are told that Kuhn's The October Suite is "an anomaly in the Impulse catalog of the time in that it did not pursue the free jazz realms with the vengeance that most of the label's other acts did during that year" - which makes 1966 Impulse records by Benny Carter, Chico Hamilton, Hank Jones, Oliver Nelson, Clark Terry & Chico O'Farrill, Sonny Rollins, Shirley Scott, Stanley Turrentine, Pee Wee Russell & Red Allen, Earl Hines & Johnny Hodges, Gary McFarland, Zoot Sims, and Gabor Szabo - all just "anomalies" - if they're anomalies what is the "norm" - John Coltrane, Archie Shepp, Pharoah Sanders, Roswell Rudd, apparently. Most acts. That's what Thom Jurek wrote. Not the most prominent acts, not acts most stereotypically associated with the Impulse name. And speaking of stereotypes: "An interesting set of inside/outside music with a bit more energy than the more stereotypical ECM set" - Scott Yanow on Kuhn's Non-Fiction "In a blindfold test it would be easy to identify pianist Steve Kuhn's CD as a stereotypical ECM recording" - Scott Yanow on Kuhn's Remembering Tomorrow "very much in the stereotypical ECM mold" - Scott Yanow on David Darling's Cycles "in general this is a stereotypical ECM date" - Scott Yanow on Miroslav Vitous's Atmos There's the sheer repetition of cliches I mentioned. Way to enforce the idea of a stereotype. I could go on, but the damn site is so slow that doing any kind of searching just elevates my blood pressure - and that's *before* I have to read the nonsense reviews! Mike Quote
sal Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 I thought the stars rating system at AMG was the average rating of the staff, not just the single reviewer. I'm certain you are wrong. You were thinking, what, they have one person write up the review but everyone listens and gives a rating? I thought I read this on another board. I don't think the entire staff listens, just the jazz staff. It made sense to me because there are so many cases where the review is glowing but the star rating is low, and vice versa. Quote
Michael Fitzgerald Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 Oh, you mean that feeling you get that one hand doesn't know what the other is doing? Like when the review complains that there isn't a CD issue of something and the discography section lists a CD? Or when the discography section has absolutely no personnel, and the review mentions the players by name? Nobody is minding the store. Glad we have a flashy new site - still no substance. Mike Quote
bertrand Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 The tune 'No Smokin' from this session is rumored to be by Bud Powell. It does appear on a Powell bootleg. Does anyone know anything more about this? Bertrand. Quote
Jim R Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 Just to add to what I said, and to what Mike said, consider this (if you haven't already). The same website and braintrust where the aforementioned reviews can be studied offer us this: Explore by.../ Moods Featured Mood: Bittersweet [Albums] Acerbic Aggressive Ambitious Amiable/Good-Natured Angry Angst-Ridden Atmospheric Austere Autumnal Bitter Bittersweet Bleak Boisterous Brash Brassy Bravado Bright Brittle Brooding Calm/Peaceful Campy Carefree Cathartic Cerebral Cheerful Circular Clinical Cold Complex Confident Confrontational Crunchy Cynical/Sarcastic Delicate Detached Difficult Distraught Dramatic Dreamy Druggy Earnest Earthy Eccentric Eerie Effervescent Elaborate Elegant Energetic Enigmatic Epic Ethereal Exciting Exuberant Fierce Fiery Fractured Freakish Freewheeling Fun Gentle Giddy Gleeful Gloomy Greasy Gritty Gutsy Happy Harsh Hedonistic Hostile Humorous Hungry Hypnotic Indulgent Innocent Insular Intense Intimate Ironic Irreverent Joyous Knotty Laid-Back/Mellow Lazy Light Literate Lively Lush Malevolent Manic Meandering Melancholy Menacing Messy Naive Nihilistic Nocturnal Nostalgic Ominous Organic Outraged Outrageous Paranoid Party/Celebratory Passionate Pastoral Plaintive Playful Poignant Precious Provocative Quirky Rambunctious Ramshackle Raucous Rebellious Reckless Refined/Mannered Reflective Relaxed Reserved Restrained Reverent Rollicking Romantic Rousing Rowdy Rustic Sad Sardonic Searching Self-Conscious Sensual Sentimental Sexual Sexy Silly Sleazy Slick Smooth Snide Soft Somber Soothing Sophisticated Spacey Sparkling Sparse Spicy Spiritual Spooky Sprawling Springlike Stately Street-Smart Stylish Suffocating Sugary Summery Swaggering Sweet Tense/Anxious Theatrical Thuggish Trashy Trippy Uncompromising Unsettling Urgent Visceral Volatile Warm Weary Whimsical Wintry Wistful Witty Wry Yearning Are you fucking KIDDING me? Quote
rockefeller center Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 (edited) Time to put an end to music criticism/reviews anyway. s Edit: added an s. Edited July 29, 2004 by rockefeller center Quote
ralphie_boy Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 I just finished listening to the RVG of "The Stylings of Silver." Farmer on Trumpet, Mobley on Sax. EXCELLENT! B) Yanow says "non-essential." he is WRONG!! This set is great and Horace is in top form! Has Horace ever put out a bad album? He's wrong alright. This is a terriffic session. Quote
mgraham333 Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 I really like "My One And Only Love" from this album. I usually play that track twice before moving on. And wasn't The Stylings Of Silver the first Blue Note album cover that employed a full-color picture? Did I read that somewhere or am I making that up? Quote
brownie Posted July 29, 2004 Report Posted July 29, 2004 And wasn't The Stylings Of Silver the first Blue Note album cover that employed a full-color picture? Did I read that somewhere or am I making that up? Yes, 'Stylings of Silver' (BN LP 1562) was the first BN colour cover. Just ahead of BN1563 Jimmy Smith Plays Pretty JUust For You. Both recorded the same day, May 8, 1957. Francis Wolff made a wise investment in Kodachrome (or was it some other colour film?) that day! Quote
BruceH Posted August 1, 2004 Report Posted August 1, 2004 and then he gives it 3 stars. 3 stars!! PLEASE! Jeez! French chef Bernard Loiseau committed suicide last year after learning he might lose his third star in his very highly-rated restaurant in Burgundy. Hope Horace Silver does not lose sleep over a three-star AMG rating! Somehow I doubt it. I think it's the words "not essential" that raised some hackles around here...and the 3 stars, of course. Quote
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