Spanish Blue Note Series

[Ed S]

Thanks for the input

[Brad]

Having taken a look at the list, and since they're all blue, Midnight Blue fits right in with this series

[Vincent, Paris]

Blue Moon, Fresh Sound, Definitive, Planet Music... it's all the same, owned by the same folks.

Untrue.

I recently called and they said they just distribute the Definitive material. They don't produce it.

Planet Music went bankrupt, that's why the site is closed. Fresh Sound is independent and well.

[Claude]

Yes, I also think Planet Music was just an online store should not be on this list.

But there seems to be a relationship between Disconforme from Andorra (Definitive, Jazz Factory) and Blue Moon from Barcelona (Fresh Sound, Blue Moon, RCA, ...), and this goes further than just distribution. The "Jimmy Giuffre Complete 1947-1952 Master Takes" was available on Blue Moon in the mid 90's, and is now on the Definitive label. The concepts of both labels look very similar.

[Alexander Hawkins]

To report back - I ordered a stack of these less than a week ago. They all arrived yesterday, well packaged, all in order: so as far as I've experienced it, their service is very good indeed!

p.s. if it wasn't for reasons of originality, I'd have the board's 3rd Leo Parker avatar - 'Let Me Tell You 'Bout It' is awesome!!!

[Aggie87]

I think this has been asked before, but are these official, legitimate BNs?

And other than the color differences, do the booklets include all of the normal liner notes etc. of their counterparts?

[Out2Lunch]

They do have the notes from the original Blue Notes and are licenced to Time-Life Records, Barcelona from Blue Note which is clearly documented on the disc and several times on the back inlay and booklet insert. They are legit.

[Alexander Hawkins]

The discs also seem to have TOCJ numbers on them...Does that mean they are the same mastering?

p.s. Have just got 'Night of the Cookers' on. I have to say, I realise that Morgan perhaps isn't up to his usual high standard, but, unless the 2nd disc is truly grotesque, I can't see why this album takes so much stick!

[Out2Lunch]

AMG doesn't think its so great either. They give it two stars and a lousy review.

Signed

The Original Out2Lunch

[shrugs]

My local has a lot of these if anyone is interested.

He has them @ 9.99

[shrugs]

I think this has been asked before, but are these official, legitimate BNs? 

And other than the color differences, do the booklets include all of the normal liner notes etc. of their counterparts?

I hear Cuscuna called one of the US distributors and told him to stop importing them. He wasn't too excited. Apparently these were not supposed to be sold in the US.

I opened two of these that I bought for a friend and they had a lot of TOCJ markings. Both the cd and the front booklet. I just opened the copy of Chick Corea's Early Circle that I bought and it does not have any TOCJ marking's. Liners mention Malcolm Addey for the remaster.

Edited May 22, 2003 by shrugs

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Anyone interested in any of these titles better get going on them.

I checked into what shrugs was told about the legitimacy of these CDs and found out that they are legitimate, licensed releases. However, they were licensed to Time/Life for sale only through a special, mail-order Time/Life "Blue Note Club"-type thing. I didn't press the people I talked to about whether they were actively doing anything about it, but from the sounds of it, I would be very surprised if these stay available for very long.

Later,

Kevin

[Claude]

I saw a complete 25CD (or more) box set of these spanish Blue Note reissues in german stores some 5 years ago. The discs were also sold seperately.

So these are not new reissues but probably old stocks that will dissappear fast at that price.

[Rooster_Ties]

or - take your pick...

And read this (pretty please ), cuz I want some discussion about this...

Either BN/EMI wants people to be able to buy these titles, or they don't. This shit about licensing music to be sold only through "certain" channels, and to certain people (in certain countries), really bites hard if you ask me. I mean, it's not like EMI didn't get paid for those titles to be released. (I presume, from what Kevin has said, that these are legit, from a legal standpoint.)

So then, what the fuck is wrong with certain people (those very few of us in the U.S. who even know about these things) being able to buy a sorry-ass few of them over here!! (Rooster is really on a rant now, I'm afraid.)

This reminds me of back in the early 90's, was it?? - When the Feds, or some government agency (who?) was supposedly going to crack down on the import of titles only released on CD in Japan or Europe (and not yet on CD in the U.S.), saying that it was illegal to import and sell them here, due to what I seem to remember as being called "parallel copyright law", or some such nonsense. I presume that went away, cuz now I see import titles available (at least on-line) 'everywhere', relatively speaking.

Again, I get back to my original statement. Either EMI wants the stuff sold, or they don't!!! But let's not release something in one part of the world, and then get all pissed off when other people in other parts of the world want to buy it too. (And pay for it, it's not like we're stealing!!)

I don't own any of these Spanish BN CD's, and there are only maybe three or four titles in the whole list that I'm in any way interested in. But to "crack down" of a few hundred of each these "slipping" into the U.S., and somehow eroding the future sales of those same titles at some "potential" future point in time... Who cares!!! Again, if the CD is legit, then EMI is already getting their money, no matter where the CD is sold, or what country the CD is imported into and resold.

Sheesh... Does somebody want to explain this to me?? Is there some part of this that I'm not understanding??

I'm mean, these are legally licensed products!!!

Is this somehow like the drug companies charging an arm and a leg for drugs in the U.S., and then selling the same drugs in Canada for less, and then getting all pissed off because (surprise, surprise!!!) people want to buy the cheaper versions of the same thing in Canada???

That may be one thing (and a topic better suited for the "politics" thread), but most of these Spanish BN titles (or at least the interesting one) aren't even in print in the U.S., and I really doubt we'll see vary many of them released here any time soon. As far as the common ones go, I figure that EMI is getting their cut, whether they're sold here or in Spain.

WTF!!! [/rant] Whew, that feels a little better now...

PS: [rant] I suppose this is like the multiple DVD formats that exist in the world, which only play on players in particular 'zones' of the world. I'm not talking about the difference between video formats, like PAL and NTSC (if I remember my acronyns right), but rather that there DVD's and DVD players are hard-coded to only play DVD's in the format "approved" for that part of the world. The sole function of this "feature" is to prevent importation of titles released on one continent, which are not yet "approved" for sale on another continent.

Can you imagine a world 50 years in the future, where traditional books don't exist anymore (for new titles anyway), and everything is released for viewing on some sort of e-book appliance?? AND, the appliance has a GPS system in it, such that you can buy the e-book content, but you can or can't read it - depending on where you are in the world??? "Oh shit, I'm going on vacation to Italy, but my favorite mystery novel doesn't have it's licensing approved yet for Italy, so when I take my e-book with me on my trip, I won't be able to read it!!!"

Laugh all you want, but that is what the DVD region encoding basically is trying to do, and trying to block to importation of legally licenced music is damn near the same thing, at least in principal. [/rant]

And I don't even own a DVD player yet!!

Edited May 23, 2003 by Rooster_Ties

[bertrand]

Are these available in stores in Paris, France? How many euros?

Thanks,

Bertrand.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

The discs also seem to have TOCJ numbers on them...Does that mean they are the same mastering?

p.s. Have just got 'Night of the Cookers' on. I have to say, I realise that Morgan perhaps isn't up to his usual high standard, but, unless the 2nd disc is truly grotesque, I can't see why this album takes so much stick!

I've been wondering about this Hubbard one as well and will now probably go ahead and pick up Vol. 1 ......and also the Complete Nocturne recordings box and Phil Grenadier's new release.

Looks like number of interesting Fresh Sounds titles too like the Teddy Charles "Jazz in the Garden at the Museum of Modern Art". Anyone heard this one? Does it sound decent?

I like the fact that the Fresh Sounds site takes PayPal.

[Rooster_Ties]

Getting back to my rant again, can you imagine there being multiple CD formats in the world, which would not play on players except in the countries where that music was "approved" for sale???

I know this is an insane example to give, but here it is anyway. Imagine, for a moment, that Japan has a differerent CD format the the U.S., and that you can only buy the Japanese CD players in Japan, and that there isn't any way to even import a "Japanese-only" CD player into the U.S., to play the Japanese format CD's. Iron-shut, nothing, no way at all to listen to any music released ONLY in Japan. And let's also assume that the various governments required to enforce such a thing were to crack down on any and all pirating of recorded sound of any sort, iron-clad, no low-fidelity cassette tapes even getting in or out of Japan, with any music not licensed for "consumption" outside of Japan.

Now then, with those absurd assumptions in place, let's say BN/EMI releases the entire BN catalog, EVERYTHING, including a bunch of newly discovered unreleased sessions (including Tyrone Washington's infamous "Trainwreck" session - which it turns out is really amazing, and the stereo mixdown that Michael happend to listen to, were just fucked up.) There's a Herbie Hancock solo-piano date from 1966. There's three unreleased Woody Shaw BN albums from 1964, 65, and 66. You name it - skies the limit.

Now, then, there's 100's of CD's that most of us would give our right arms and legs for, with NO way to get the music, and no way to even listen to the music. No way, other than to move to Japan, I guess.

Yeah, this is a crazy proposition (especially with all the limitations I put, which are impossible to enforce), but if you take the idea of limiting the import of legally licensed product to it's insane but logical conclusion, then this is but one scenerio you can think of.

As it is now, paying import prices for music is a pain in the ass, but that's the way it is. But to prohibit music (or any mass-produced artistic expression) from being available for purchase by some people, while other people have free access...... What else can I say that I haven't already said????

Edited May 23, 2003 by Rooster_Ties

[Clunky]

for my money I think the horrible covers , lack of alternates do a real disservice to the BN legacy, I' ll be avoiding these

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Rooster, I understand your frustration. I also can't understand why Blue Note would feel the need to stop these CDs if they are legit... well, from what I was told, legit isn't really true. These are not being sold under the terms of the licensing contract so legally, they aren't legally legit. Anyway, I don't see how these few sales hurt Blue Note if the licensing fee was paid. I just don't get it.

BTW, for the very reason that I don't agree with BN on this issue is the very reason I didn't press them on it. I just got the info that they're not supposed to be sold on the open market, that BN is "looking into it" and then I extricated myself from the conversation before they asked me anything else. From what I heard, they are aware of these and they don't want them being sold. Why? I didn't ask.

Wasn't I just saying on another thread that it seems like Blue Note's legal department likes to play "hardball"?? They seem to have more lawyers than they need. Maybe this legal department is bored and they're looking for things to do?? Maybe they're reading this thread right....................

THIS IS BLUE NOTE'S LEGAL DEPARTMENT. WE HAVE DECIDED THAT MR. BRESNAHAN IS REVEALING TOO MUCH ABOUT OUR INNER WORKINGS AND WE HAVE STOPPED HIS POSTING ABILITY. THE TRIAL IS SET FOR NEXT MONTH.

[Rooster_Ties]

Been nice having you on the board with us Kevin. Good luck!! - and use that one phone call you get wisely...

Edited May 23, 2003 by Rooster_Ties

[Rooster_Ties]

Yeah, most of my thesis above wasn't plausable, but there are different DVD formats in different parts of the world. Who's to say that having different CD formats in different parts of the world isn't somebody's "bright" idea too. It'll never happen to music, cuz I know we're moving away from CD's as the delivery medium. But there are some real issues here, about music only being licenced for sale (and "consumption") in some countries, and not others.

It's not very hard to imagine a future where all music is downloaded (or you go to a physical store, and they download it for you, and hand it to you, somehow). And, in that same future, you can only download certain music, depending on where you are. That's not at all hard to imagine. All those Japanese titles many of us own?? Imagine them being available for easy purchase by several million people on another side of the planet, but not available to you. Then, imagine some holy-grail recording you'd been looking for, for 20+ years. It's easily available across the pond, but there's no way for you to even import it here. You want to talk about being ...

[jazzbo]

Weiz, the sound on the Teddy Charles is decent. Get it.

Also, get the second volume of the Cookers. Why just get one? I think you'll like 'em.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

That's a good point Lon..why just get the one? Well, looks like my order just expanded by 2 discs - Vol2 & Teddy C

[shrugs]

Kevin,

Did you call Integrity to reserve the ones you are interested in?

These are flying out the door since it is known that the ice cream man has been told not come around anymore.

Just wanted to add that it's the "in demand" titles that are disappearing quick. Still plenty of Night Of The Cookers.....

Edited May 23, 2003 by shrugs

[Kevin Bresnahan]

Kevin,

Did you call Integrity to reserve the ones you are interested in?

These are flying out the door since it is known that the ice cream man has been told not come around anymore.

Just wanted to add that it's the "in demand" titles that are disappearing quick. Still plenty of Night Of The Cookers.....

Shrugs,

I was able to pick up the Roach at Stereo Jack's in Cambridge last night. Turns out Jack got in a bunch of these too. Jack didn't have the Blakey or Corea so I have the Blakey on reserve at Integrity and they're trying to get me the Corea... they say they'll order it on Tuesday.

BTW, thanks for letting me know these were at Integrity. I was soooo close to making an order with Fresh Sounds. This is much better.

Later,

Kevin