Coltrane Gigged with Monk ...

[Dan Gould]

OK, so I'm listening to a reel to reel tape of the Monk Quartet at Birdland, February 16 1963 (don't ask, I'm not at liberty to discuss), its a radio broadcast and the DJ starts talking about the upcoming shows. And this is what he says (I transcribed it so I'd be sure):

“We’d like to remind you that Mr. Monk will be with us for another week and that joining Monk next Thursday we will feature John Coltrane in the quartet and also Benny Carter … John Coltrane, Benny Carter, Thelonious Monk and joining Thelonious Monk, Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers again with Benny Carter.  We have wonderful things happening here at the Jazz Corner of the World, Birdland”

Now, my understanding was that Coltrane only gigged with Monk in, what, '58, right? Is it common knowledge that Coltrane got back with Monk, on at least one occassion? And how about that front line? Coltrane and Benny Carter with the Monk Quartet?!

Granted, its not real clear, exactly what he means, but I think the Messengers are actually the second act of the evening (and Carter is sitting in with them, too???!!!)

To put an exact date on this, the radio broadcast was a Friday night, so the following Thursday was February 22nd, 1963.

Maybe Mike Fitzgerald can shed light on this.

[rockefeller center]

Have you tried the Coltrane-L archive already?

http://listserv.uh.edu/cgi-bin/wa?S1=coltrane-l

[Chuck Nessa]

Geez....a friend of my former roomie said a buddy heard them there in May. He says his friend has a tape and says he'll send me a copy. I'll get back to you.

[Dan Gould]

OK, I guess Coltrane did gig with Monk after he'd become a successful leader. I always thought that he just had the gig at the Five Spot and that was it (or mostly it), certainly not that he was gigging with him five years later.

But I'd kill to have heard Monk with Coltrane and Benny Carter! Or Benny with the Messengers!

[JSngry]

I think that

we will feature John Coltrane in the quartet

might actually be we will feature John Coltrane and the quartet , and that they're referring to a multi-artist lineup - Monk's band, Tran'es band, and some kind of Benny Carter group all appearing over the course of a night.

Birfland often had multiple bands booked like that. I've seen photos of the signs out front, and the lineups amount to what today would pass for a jazz festival!

[Chuck Nessa]

Birfland was my favorite club - back in the day.

[Larry Kart]

Don't forget Chicago's own Birfhouse and the various incarnations of Joe Segal's Jiz Showcase.

[Chuck Nessa]

Don't forget Chicago's own Birfhouse and the various incarnations of Joe Segal's Jiz Showcase.

Larry gives Joe more credit than I do.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Did the Chicago Birfland come after they did Birdland, Budland, Monkland, Maxland, Klookland, and the Beige Room?

Back to Monk & Trane. In 1966 or 1967 Monk and Trane played together because Trane's rhythm section got stuck in a snowstorm. The above-mentioned Coltrane list has some information on this.

However, the Birdland gig you refer to was a double bill. There were several such times when Monk & Coltrane were on the same bill, but played separately. Another one that comes to mind was Stanford University 1966.

Mike

[Guest ariceffron]

did they really call it monkland and maxland at one time???

[RDK]

In the really old days it was called Boldenland...

[jazzbo]

Jelly Roll INVENTED Birdland AND the Double Bill!

[jazzbo]

No, wait a minute: Jelly Roll's LAWYER invented the double bill.

[Dan Gould]

I think that

we will feature John Coltrane in the quartet

might actually be we will feature John Coltrane and the quartet , and that they're referring to a multi-artist lineup - Monk's band, Tran'es band, and some kind of Benny Carter group all appearing over the course of a night.

Birfland often had multiple bands booked like that. I've seen photos of the signs out front, and the lineups amount to what today would pass for a jazz festival!

Well, the explanation may be plausible, but I listened to the announcement over and over again, and he clearly says, "in the Quartet" and note also

and joining Thelonious Monk, Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers again with Benny Carter

I know they were running double features here-the second show on this night in particular was the Cannonball Sextet. So, to me this says that the second show is the Messengers, and "Again with Benny Carter" says that Benny Carter is also sitting in with the Messengers.

The best way to put this to rest would be to document where Trane was in the third week of February, 1963.

[couw]

The best way to put this to rest would be to document where Trane was in the third week of February, 1963.

the best way would be to let us all listen to what the announcer has to say. And while you're at it, you might as well throw the entire show out way

[rockefeller center]

The best way to put this to rest would be to document where Trane was in the third week of February, 1963.

Porter's book, p369:

Probably February 19 - March 3, possibly longer. Manhattan. Birdland.

**February 23. Manhattan. Birdland. Radio Broadcast, about 25 minutes.

[Dan Gould]

The best way to put this to rest would be to document where Trane was in the third week of February, 1963.

Porter's book, p369:

Probably February 19 - March 3, possibly longer. Manhattan. Birdland.

**February 23. Manhattan. Birdland. Radio Broadcast, about 25 minutes.

Well there's the answer, except that, if a Thursday as the DJ said, it would have been the 22nd of February. Then again, the radio broadcasts were Friday night, so if a radio broadcast exists, maybe it was Friday.

Too bad there's no indication of whether Benny Carter actually joined the band, too.

Thanks, RC.

[Dan Gould]

Looking at it again, I guess the Porter book is saying that the Coltrane Quartet was in Birdland, February 23rd for a radio broadcast, which makes sense since the announcer says Monk will be there for another week, meaning he would have cleared out by then, and the 23rd makes sense because it was a Friday and that's when they broadcast from Birdland.

I don't think the February 19th date is correct though, because I'd think that if the Coltrane Quartet was starting an engagement then, the announcer would have made note of it, instead of saying that Monk will be there for another week, with Coltrane joining him the next Thursday.

Porter doesn't really clear it up ...

[Dan Gould]

The best way to put this to rest would be to document where Trane was in the third week of February, 1963.

the best way would be to let us all listen to what the announcer has to say. And while you're at it, you might as well throw the entire show out way

I'm sorry, what did you say? I can't hear you over this primo private recording of the Monk Quartet. Did you know that Coltrane joined them at Birdland on February 22nd, 1963?

[rockefeller center]

we will feature John Coltrane in the quartet

As I understand it, he's advertizing the Coltrane Quartet. Maybe you could email David Wild or post to the Coltrane list.

[rockefeller center]

Looking at it again, I guess the Porter book is saying that the Coltrane Quartet was in Birdland

Yes. I didn't post this to confirm your assumption re Monk. Just the date/place.

Edited July 16, 2004 by rockefeller center

[brownie]

Some of the Monk quartet Birdland dates from February 1963 have appeared on one of the Boris Rose LP label (Alto). Sides from the February 9, 16 and 23 evenings.

From the February 16, three tracks (Bright Mississipi, Epistrophy, Sweet And Lovely) were on Alto AL725. Two more tunes (Four In One, Epistrophy II) are still unissued.

'Evidence' from February 23 is also on that Alto release.

All are performed by the regular Monk quartet with Charlie Rouse.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

It was a multiple bill. [Didn't I say this already?]

BTW, the other artist is NOT Benny Carter. It's Betty Carter.

Mike

[Dan Gould]

It was a multiple bill. [Didn't I say this already?]

BTW, the other artist is NOT Benny Carter. It's Betty Carter.

Mike

BETTY Carter with the Messengers?

And on what do you base your ironclad assertion? Is there a handbill in the Fitzgerald archives?

[Jim R]

I think that

we will feature John Coltrane in the quartet

might actually be we will feature John Coltrane and the quartet , and that they're referring to a multi-artist lineup - Monk's band, Tran'es band, and some kind of Benny Carter group all appearing over the course of a night.

Birfland often had multiple bands booked like that. I've seen photos of the signs out front, and the lineups amount to what today would pass for a jazz festival!

Well, the explanation may be plausible, but I listened to the announcement over and over again, and he clearly says, "in the Quartet"

Dan, it seems to me that even if it sounds exactly like "IN the quartet", it could just as easily be that he's saying " 'n the quartet ". Just a thought. Also, you'd think (or at least I'd think) that he would have used the phrase "sitting in with" to make clear to everybody that something special was going to be happening. Just another thought...