Another ebay nightmare

[doubleM]

I put a used Selmer K-Modified trumpet on ebay a couple of weeks ago, and a few days into the auction someone "Bought it Now". I get an email from the buyer saying that he bid on it for his friend, and that his friend would pay me for it. He gave me the friends #, who I called the next morning. The guy ( a Louisiana dentist) definitely new his trumpets, asked all of the right questions, and agreed to send me a money order that day. So later in the day, he called back asking if a postal money order would work. Next he asked me a gazzilion questions about the horn. I was thinking, "you should ask these questions before bidding", but I answered them all. The horn has no dents, dings, etc.. It's really nice. So, 11 or so days later, no payment, he won't return my calls, and his friend (who placed the bid) won't return my emails. I'm pissed, but hoping that there's a small chance that it will work out. It seems very unlikely, though. If anyone has successfully dealt w/ any ebay b.s. like this, I'd love to hear your stories and ideas.

[Dan Gould]

My number one advice is to remind the bidder that he is legally responsible for payment of the purchase price, and that you will pursue all legal remedies available.

That might get his attention.

If it doesn't, you need to wait thirty days (I think) and then file a non-payment complaint with ebay. They won't really do anything, but its the only thing you can do.

One question, does this bidder have a lot of feedback? Is he the guy who uses ebay a lot, and just did his friend a favor? It might be nice if he had to start a new account because ebay suspends him.

[J.A.W.]

eBay's non-paying buyer policy (for what it's worth) - click here

[wolff]

If you still want to sell it, LMK and I'll put you in touch with a guy in Seattle area who may buy it. Pays fast and is buying up instruments. I just sold him a Yanagisawa alto and he was great to deal with.

[doubleM]

The bidder/buyer has 9 positive feedbacks, and opened his ebay account in 4/04. A relative newbie. I did send him a reminder for non-payment, but I think that the more surly m.o. that Dan suggested might be worth trying. It seems like ebay has some strike-system, where the first 2 or so times you dog someone you just get a warning. That seems pretty f'ed up, though...to me. I don't think the should let people get away w/ that even once. Sent you a PM, wolff.

[wolff]

I've had a few non-paying bidders. Other than doing what it takes to recoup any Ebay fees, I'd just move on. I do not know if I would even leave negative feedback in this case. They sound like Ebay newbies.

[doubleM]

He already left me a positive, probably damage control. Why wouldn't you leave him a negative?

[J.A.W.]

I'd certainly leave him negative feedback if he doesn't pay.

[Dan Gould]

Since he is a newbie, my "more surly" approach just might make him do something, like get his friend to respond to you. He may not know yet how gently ebay treats deadbeats.

[J.A.W.]

In cases like this I'd insist that the buyer pay me, and not his aunt, mother, brother, sister, friend, or whoever.

[Craig23]

If you decide to leave a negative make sure you just keep it factual:

EOA xx/xx, NPB xx/xx, FVFC xx/xx

EOA = End of Auction (date)

NPB = Non-Paying Bidder (the day you file a Non-Paying Bidder form) (date)

FVFC = Final Value Fee Credit (date) (the day you file for your credit. this also counts as a point against the bidder).

If you don't leave a negative, make sure you at least file for your Final Value Fee Credit. It is too bad it takes three people to do that but the sooner you get the guy kicked off of eBay, the better it is for all sellers).

[doubleM]

I took your advice Dan. If I don't hear from these putzes in a few days, I'll relist it. How do these fucks sleep at night?

[wolff]

He already left me a positive, probably damage control. Why wouldn't you leave him a negative?

Ideally, you should leave NF, but....Retaliatory negative feedback or feedback intimidation is common on Ebay and there is no recourse other than posting a short response.

Here is a quick story. Bought LP that was described as stone mint. It had a big scratch and seller refused to refund. I told him I would leave NF and he said if I do that he will leave NF on me. I left him NF and he left me NF.

Ebay did nothing. Paypal refunded my $$$, but NF is still there.

This is a very rare case and I would do the same again.

Since he already left you PF (he certainly is doing damage control. LMAO) maybe there is nothing he could do if you left him NF.

Ebay makes it sound like their system is great, but there are some flaws.

[kulu se mama]

i would make sure you get your final selling fees back from ebay.

you can also block him from bidding on any future auctions you might have.

[wolff]

Another thing..

I believe Ebay rules state the seller is to leave PF as soon as he receives payment.

Many, and I mean many sellers do not do this. I used to leave feedback before the seller did, but I do not anymore.

[doubleM]

It just dawned on me that the bidder and his "friend" are probably the same guy. (-----@hotmail.com). Another item that he recently bid on was a quad trumpet case. But he got pos. fb for that one. He probably has had a history of doing this shit, so got banned, and had to start over under an alias. Don't they allow members access to eachother's contact info anymore, beyond email? Maybe I could draw from the "Six Feet Under" school and send him some scat in the mail!

[Craig23]

Another thing..

I believe Ebay rules state the seller is to leave PF as soon as he receives payment.

Many, and I mean many sellers do not do this.  I used to leave feedback before the seller did, but I do not anymore.

No, feedback is completely optional. Nobody ever has to leave feedback since it is voluntary.

If I were a seller, I would never leave feedback first. If you are a seller you may want to make sure the transaction is okay with the buyer before you leave feedback. As fucked up as it is, there are buyers (and sellers) who just want to leave negatives simply play around. I've heard too many "horror" stories of sellers who leave a positive and then have an asshole buyer leave a negative for some stupid reason. Unfortunately, because of the horror stories sellers should leave feedback once the transaction is complete (i.e. buyer is satisfied).

[kulu se mama]

you can get the contact information for anyone that you have a transaction with on ebay.

this will include their phone number and home address.

they will get an email stating that you are getting their contact info.

good luck.

[wolff]

Another thing..

I believe Ebay rules state the seller is to leave PF as soon as he receives payment.

Many, and I mean many sellers do not do this.  I used to leave feedback before the seller did, but I do not anymore.

No, feedback is completely optional. Nobody ever has to leave feedback since it is voluntary.

If I were a seller, I would never leave feedback first. If you are a seller you may want to make sure the transaction is okay with the buyer before you leave feedback. As fucked up as it is, there are buyers (and sellers) who just want to leave negatives simply play around. I've heard too many "horror" stories of sellers who leave a positive and then have an asshole buyer leave a negative for some stupid reason. Unfortunately, because of the horror stories sellers should leave feedback once the transaction is complete (i.e. buyer is satisfied).

I thought I read it somewhere, but I guess I'm wrong. First time for everything.

There are sellers I have learned to trust and buy from and they leave FB first.

[wolff]

Here is one thing ebay mentions about when to leave FB.

When should I leave feedback?

Leave feedback after completing any purchase or sale on eBay.

I guess their is a grey area on when one considers a sale/purchase completed.

[Craig23]

If you aren't familiar with your buyer or seller it is probably better to be safe than sorry because, unfortunately, it is really hard to get bad feedback removed (even if it is based on a lie or just vengeful - maybe that's why eBay's guidelines are so vague - that way they don't have to "take sides").

Luckily most buyers/sellers are great (at least in my experience). I just feel bad for doubleM, especially if you felt you sold it for a good price.

[Jazzmoose]

Here is one thing ebay mentions about when to leave FB.

When should I leave feedback?

Leave feedback after completing any purchase or sale on eBay.

I guess their is a grey area on when one considers a sale/purchase completed.

There is indeed. The transaction is not complete until both parties agree it is complete. Besides, as Craig points out, it's optional. I've left feedback for every transaction I've been involved in except two. The first, the dealer didn't like the way ebay did feedback and requested I not leave it. I complied, as it would have been positive anyway. The second was my most recent when I received an email after bidding informing me that I should "leave feedback when you receive your item. We leave feedback afterwards, and leave whatever we get." I know many sellers have this policy, but rubbing my face in it was a bit much. Screw 'em.

[wolff]

The second was my most recent when I received an email after bidding informing me that I should "leave feedback when you receive your item. We leave feedback afterwards, and leave whatever we get." I know many sellers have this policy, but rubbing my face in it was a bit much. Screw 'em.

Wow! That's a good one that I've seen before, too. These sellers creep me out.

[Tjazz]

In the future, you might want to use BUY IT NOW with immediate payment thru Paypal only. Then, someone cannot close your auction without payment. Problem with BUY IT NOW, is that there are no backup bidders, in case the high bidder fails to pay.

Only problem with BUY IT NOW with Paypal, is that international buyers are excluded. Good only in the USA.

Half.com had REAL buyers, because everyone had to sign-up with a credit card. Ebay has more payment options (cash, money orders, credit cards, paypal, personal checks), but they also have the option to not pay.

[jacknife]

As a seller, I only leave fb after I receive fb that everything is ok. As a buyer, I leave fb as soon as I receive item and am happy with it. Seems to work best that way.

I am currently dealing with a confused (to be polite) buyer from Taiwan. He, up until recently, has been bidding high on a huge number of jazz cds and only paying for ones he feels like I guess. He has been suspended by ebay but still needs to settle up with 3 of my 7 auctions that he won. I'm pulling my hair out trying to work with him but something seems lost in translation. I first reported him for invalid bid retraction. He would bid high to see were things were at then retract for wrong bid entered without rebidding correct amout immediately, 37 bid retractions in the last 6 months! What a pain in the arse!