Sam Rivers

[Late]

For the past five days, I've listened to this album every morning. Something about it just keeps me coming back. Rivers is in incredible form here.

Even Rivers aside, I think this album has some of James Spaulding's finest solos that he ever waxed for Blue Note — almost fully clear of the usual Spaulding clichés. I'm still not sure about Donald Byrd's contributions, though. I don't dislike them, but I do keep wanting to hear Woody Shaw. And Cecil McBee's bass playing!

What do you think of this one? Share your thoughts!

(Does anyone here have the ultra-rare Blue Note Japan Club-only JRVG pressing of this album? I'd love to hear that one.)

Edited October 14, 2014 by Late

[ralphie_boy]

I like it too! One of the things I like about this session is the way that certain tracks feel like they're going off the rails, then they're reigned back in. I like Spaulding's playing here too. I remember some board members mentioning a dislike for the drummer (Steve Ellington, I believe), but I never found his playing to be a problem.

[jazzbo]

Personally, I don't have a problem with Steve Ellington's playing, but his ride cymbal's sound and its place in the mix distracts me (not in a good way) immensely! It's not at its worst on this recording, which is a good one. I don't mind Byrd here. . . I'm less of a Hubbard fan than many so I'm happy with Byrd.

Edited July 14, 2004 by jazzbo

[Guy Berger]

Even Rivers aside, I think this album has some of James Spaulding's finest solos that he ever waxed for Blue Note — almost fully clear of the usual Spaulding clichés.

Late,

What do you mean by Spaulding's cliches? I'm not especially familiar with the guy other than his playing on BN albums (he's also on a David Murray album I have), and have always liked it without paying any special attention to it.

Guy

[Late]

Spaulding, at least in his Blue Note sideman days, often relied on favorite licks to move his solos forward. Most notable, I think, is a descending chromatic pattern that you'll hear in nearly every session for Blue Note that he appeared on. It's not a bad little lick, but its repetition over the years does start to make one wonder if he didn't reach some kind of improvisatory plateau.

Bear in mind, I'm a Spaulding fan myself. I love his sound on alto, and I especially like the way he bends notes to add that "human" quality to his playing. I just find that on Dimensions & Extensions, Rivers' charts seem to push Spaulding, in a good way, out of his comfort zone. I think the same thing happened to Freddie Hubbard on Contours, too. Sam Rivers' writing seems to have that effect!

I actually really like Ellington's playing here, as busy as it sometimes is, though I do hear what you're saying about the mix. That's part of the reason I'd love to hear that JRVG. Too bad this recording never made it onto the TOCJ format. I wonder why not? Some day, I suppose, it will find its way into the Connoisseur line-up.

[sidewinder]

This one is an old favourite of mine. I have the session on a Pathe Macaroni DMM vinyl (worth having just for the great sleeve design ) and also on the Rivers Mosaic. I've always liked Steve Ellington's playing on this session - drives it forward well, nothing too fancy. Byrd and Spaulding are clearly operating on the 'outer limits' but that's part of the appeal. When Rivers bursts in on his solos it is with such incredible authority. Julian Priester seems to handle things pretty well too !

[SEK]

I had the Pathe Macaroni LP and now the Mosaic too.

Rivers's Blue Note works have remained my favorite from his long career (along with some duet recordings he made with Dave Holland). "Dimensions and Extensions" anticipates some of his larger ensembles later on, but it is still very much part of the Rivers Blue Note continuum. It grooves. B)

[Late]

It grooves. B)

It does groove, which I think is a huge accomplishment for such an "avant garde" session. Robert Palmer, in the notes to this album, nailed it when he said: "Rarely has atonality in jazz writing sounded this warm."

[Big Al]

This is a wonderful session indeed! One I need to listen to more often.

I also agree that this is Spaulding's best work, especially the flute duo between him and Rivers! Agree also with the comment about the Spaulding cliches; to often, they mar some otherwise nice solos (especially on Shorter's Schizophrenia and Mobley's A Slice of the Top.)

Donald Byrd's work here is vastly underrated; IMHO, he more than holds his own despite the fact that he's out of his normal element!

Gonna go dig it out right now!

[undergroundagent]

As a person who has owned both the Mosaic and individual disc, I have to admit that this record doesn't stack up well with the other Rivers' sessions, particularly "Contours." It's only my opinion, but this one came off frentic to me.

I also think Spaulding has done much better work. "Sweet Honey Bee" is one such record that comes to mind.

[Big Al]

BTW, can someone post the correct playing order from the LP? I've always wondered if the Mosaic playing sequence was same as the LP.

[Big Al]

One more thing: Cecil McBee kicks ASS on this album! (I realize he normally does anyway, but for this session, he sounds especially inspired!)

[Jerry]

I like this album too. I'm listening to the Mosaic now. I sometimes think Dave Holland's later work was influenced by the playing on this. All of the Rivers Bluenotes should be reissued as RVG's or Conns. I actually bought two extra copies of the Mosaic to give to friends because I think this music is so important.

[brownie]

BTW, can someone post the correct playing order from the LP? I've always wondered if the Mosaic playing sequence was same as the LP.

Side A:

- Precis

- Paean

- Effusive Melange

Side B:

- Involution

- Afflatus

- Helix

[JohnJ]

Speaking of Sam Rivers, I would be interested in hearing opinions on 'Crystals', which I saw at a very good price in the HMV sale. The review on AMG (easy to access today) is glowing to say the least, but then it is written by Thom Jurek. It does sound a little more 'out there' than the Blue Notes.

[DTMX]

Speaking of Sam Rivers, I would be interested in hearing opinions on 'Crystals', which I saw at a very good price in the HMV sale. The review on AMG (easy to access today) is glowing to say the least, but then it is written by Thom Jurek. It does sound a little more 'out there' than the Blue Notes.

Here's a review of Crystals on Amazon.com that says pretty much everything I would say, but with more good writing. I would also add that what separates this big band recording from Rivers' large ensemble recordings Inspiration and Culmination is that the band on Crystals is mostly made up of music professor-types as opposed to the all-star line-ups on the other two recordings. Not that the performances are any less, but without 'name' players this recording is focused on the compositions rather than being an all-star blowing session. The music on Crystals is also more abstract and atonal than the tunes on Inspiration and Culmination. If you can find it for a good price, pick it up.

[Big Al]

BTW, can someone post the correct playing order from the LP? I've always wondered if the Mosaic playing sequence was same as the LP.

Side A:

- Precis

- Paean

- Effusive Melange

Side B:

- Involution

- Afflatus

- Helix

Thanks!

[Late]

Here's a review of Crystals on Amazon.com

Thanks for linking that. It is a good review, with little Jurek slobber! I have to admit to playing Crystals less than Rivers' Blue Notes, but whenever I do, I always think "I need to play this one more!"

What, exactly, of Rivers' Impulse! work has made it onto disc? Here's what I think is out:

• Streams (now long OOP?)

• Trio Live (which culls from various Rivers' Impulse! titles, I think; don't have this one)

• Crystals

Any others, and any others that you'd like to see out (or that should be out)?

[brownie]

What, exactly, of Rivers' Impulse! work has made it onto disc? Here's what I think is out:

• Streams (now long OOP?)

• Trio Live (which culls from various Rivers' Impulse! titles, I think; don't have this one)

• Crystals

Any others, and any others that you'd like to see out (or that should be out)?

I have two more Impulses that don't seem to have been reissued:

'Hues', a 1975 release with tracks from various 1971/1973 concerts,

'Sizzle', recorded in 1975 with Ted Dunbar, Dave Holland, Barry Altschul and Warren Smith.

Good ones but I have not played them for quite some time!

[David Ayers]

The Trio double was issued all-in-one as a CD (at least, I think it is the same). Hues is on the Live Trio double LP. Sizzle never made it to CD. Sizzle is fun but skippable. Streams is a slightly poe faced trio date in Montreux which was briefly on CD.

There is a lot of unissed live stuff which I would like to see issued as a box set. the Rick Lopez' Rivers discog is here.

[jazzscot]

I think I enjoy FUSCHIA SWING SONG most

but DIMENSIONS etc would be a close second

followed by CONTOURS. Sam Rivers's music

always is an enjoyable experience for me.

[mikeweil]

Personally, I don't have a problem with Steve Ellington's playing, but his ride cymbal's sound and its place in the mix distracts me (not in a good way) immensely!

It's not a problem of his playing, but of the way he was recorded: From what I know from photos made in the Van Gelder Studio, Rudy used to place the mikes pretty close to the cymbals. Steve Ellington had his ride cymbal suspended very loosely on the stand, swaying back and forth at a wide angle, thus causing a phasing effect. If Rudy had placed one or two mikes overhead 6 or 7 feet high, he would have avoided this.

The first Dave Holland quintet CD on ECM has Ellington too, if you listen closely, you can hear it but it won't distract you.

[mikeweil]

Forgot to mention I really dig this album, ALL players involved. My peronal favorite among Rivers' Blue Notes.

I thought Sizzle to be a strange misconceived album. All tunes jump along in lively tempos without much diversification. I sold that almost immediately. Sounds like an underrehearsed one-shot studio affair, even though Holland and Altshul were frequent partners at the time.

The Impulse Trios, OTOH, are all great. Good impression of how he sounded live then.

[Chuck Nessa]

I think this date is a 'reasonable idea' and less than stellar execution. Nice try, but no cigar. I'd say it remained in the can for all the right reasons.

[Late]

Now we have this session on RVG. The horns sound great, and the bass and drums sound (to me) fairly horrible. Nevertheless, I'm still glad to have this one out in circulation again. I haven't compared it to the Mosaic yet.

One thing I noticed yesterday listening to this session again: check out Donald Byrd's first solo on "Precis" — it begins with a lot of fourthy licks (nearly in imitation of Woody Shaw), then half-way through makes a decided change to very fundamental and pinched phrases with an intentionally fuzzier tone ... seemingly in imitation of Don Cherry. It's almost as if you can hear Byrd thinking: I'm on an "avant garde" session. Should I sound like Woody Shaw? No, wait, Don Cherry!. I'm not really trying to knock Byrd here, I just wish he'd have played "Donald Byrd" — that silky, singing tone of his would be a great contrast to what the other horns are doing.

What do you all think of the RVG?