Brownian Motion Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Most of us probably have favorite recordings that are off the radar screen to the preponderance of jazz listeners. A case in point: The Modern Jazz Society Presents a Concert of Contemporary Music, "supervised" by John Lewis and featuring Lucky Thompson, Stan Getz, J.J. Johnson, Tony Scott, and Aaron Sachs. This 1955 recording has been a favorite of mine since I bought it in reissue in the 1960s. It is the first recording in a wonderful series of recordings of what later became known as "Third Stream", an attempt to fuse elements of formal European music with jazz. It features inspired compositions from John Lewis and J.J. Johnson and outstanding solo work from the jazzmen involved. This was reissued by Verve four years ago with a pair of rehearsal takes and a partial rehearsal take added on, but it went quickly out of print. But it is great music that should be heard by all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Subsequent to the CD issue, even more material - I forget whether rehearsal or not - has been discovered. Maybe we can look forward to a future issue that includes this added stuff. But based on Verve's policy of late, it seems unlikely. And we certainly can debate whether this was the "first" third-stream set. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownian Motion Posted July 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 And we certainly can debate whether this was the "first" third-stream set. Mike I didn't mean to be quite so definitive. But I don't think you would dispute that this recording is a significant early example of "third stream". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Hey, I can play devil's advocate all day - define "early" - what about Paul Whiteman, George Gershwin, hell, what about Gottschalk? What about the Kenton Innovations band? Hall Overton, Teddy Charles, Teo Macero, Alec Wilder, and on. Even Gunther Schuller acknowledges that although the term came in 1957, in reality, third stream had been going for quite some time. I don't go in for absolutes. Then, of course, this is the thread titled "Most Underrated in Jazz History" - so definitive seems to be the order of the day...... Is MJS a great record that more people should know about? No question! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownian Motion Posted July 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Is MJS a great record that more people should know about? No question! Mike Thank you for your pugnacious input. It certainly beats no input at all. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Can you post an image of the CD's front cover? There's always the chance of finding it used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownian Motion Posted July 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Can you post an image of the CD's front cover? There's always the chance of finding it used. I was afraid someone would ask for a picture. Here it is, from my scanner to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Don't know whether these qualify as underrated or virtually unknown, but how about composer John Benson Brooks' "Folk Jazz U.S.A." (VIK) and "Alabama Concerto"? The former with Nick Travis, Zoot Sims on alto and Al Cohn on baritone, Barry Galbraith, Milt Hinton, and Osie Johnson, the latter with Art Farmer, Cannonball, Galbraith and Milt Hinton. "Alabama" is the more ambitious effort, a unique and major effort of long-form jazz composition that also includes lots of strong improvisation; "Folk" is based on more folksy material than "Alabama" (which draws on Harold Courlander's field recordings, but "Folk" has some soulful, very into-the-mood solo work, especially from Cohn (on "Lord Randall, My Son") and Sims (who's lyricism on, I think, "Turtledove," is ungodly). Brooks, while his own man, was a George Russell associate, and it shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 That Lewis recording IS an important early "third stream" recording that should be listened to and talked about more! I especially like Getz's involvement which pushes it into something special for me. Here's a suggetion of another lp that I believe should be more listened to and talked about, Charles Mingus' "East Coasting," recorded in August 1957. I keep coming back to this work because of it seems a focused effort showcasing a working front line that really listens and sparks each other, guided by a bass and drum team that could mc a circus or NASA launching event. AND has Bill Evans sitting in on the piano chair. The compositions are solid, the overall conception and arrangements stellar. And the material seems "state of the art of jazz 1957"---seems to have a toe in every camp going on and be an "open letter" offering some suggestions for new directions. I always dig listening to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 lots of jazz from over yonder our side of the pond applies, but hell, that ain't jazz history I guess, that's just recreation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 No dispute from me, how about mentioning a one or a two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 I'm working on that, I start threads every now and then, as I learn myself & I include some free tunes as well, go figure. But all these threads seem to meet with less than a little enthousiasm and not more than pity for the unknown. Probably I am dead wrong in taking lack of reaction for lack of interest, but ey, how am I to know? so don't blame me for my harsh words. It's frustrating to be preaching to the deaf.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Okay. . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownian Motion Posted July 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Don't know whether these qualify as underrated or virtually unknown, but how about composer John Benson Brooks' "Folk Jazz U.S.A." (VIK) and "Alabama Concerto"? The former with Nick Travis, Zoot Sims on alto and Al Cohn on baritone, Barry Galbraith, Milt Hinton, and Osie Johnson, the latter with Art Farmer, Cannonball, Galbraith and Milt Hinton. "Alabama" is the more ambitious effort, a unique and major effort of long-form jazz composition that also includes lots of strong improvisation; "Folk" is based on more folksy material than "Alabama" (which draws on Harold Courlander's field recordings, but "Folk" has some soulful, very into-the-mood solo work, especially from Cohn (on "Lord Randall, My Son") and Sims (who's lyricism on, I think, "Turtledove," is ungodly). Brooks, while his own man, was a George Russell associate, and it shows. Larry, thank you. This is exactly the response this topic was meant to elicit. I've already ordered a copy of Alabama Concerto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Okay. . . . you're welcome. Not to take this out on you, but ey, I do my best, like everyone on this board, to keep this medium alive and kicking AND to broaden the collective perspective. But I have run against too many deaf ears when I try to push some historic (Eastern) European stuff to be less than a little defensive when it comes to someone calling my cards. I'll keep trying though. More cards coming soon. Stay tuned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Don't know whether these qualify as underrated or virtually unknown, but how about composer John Benson Brooks' "Folk Jazz U.S.A." (VIK) and "Alabama Concerto"? The former with Nick Travis, Zoot Sims on alto and Al Cohn on baritone, Barry Galbraith, Milt Hinton, and Osie Johnson, the latter with Art Farmer, Cannonball, Galbraith and Milt Hinton. "Alabama" is the more ambitious effort, a unique and major effort of long-form jazz composition that also includes lots of strong improvisation; "Folk" is based on more folksy material than "Alabama" (which draws on Harold Courlander's field recordings, but "Folk" has some soulful, very into-the-mood solo work, especially from Cohn (on "Lord Randall, My Son") and Sims (who's lyricism on, I think, "Turtledove," is ungodly). Brooks, while his own man, was a George Russell associate, and it shows. Another vote for ALABAMA CONCERTO. I featured this on my community radio Juneteenth program several weeks ago... Larry's description is dead-on. You'll enjoy, Brownian Motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clifford_thornton Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 I don't know if it's underrated or if it's just that no one cares, but that Charles Brackeen on Strata-East is something else. All those old Arhoolie SF jazz records are bitchin' -- you can still get all but the Sonny Simmons directly from the label, original backstock (the only reason the Simmons is gone is because some dealer bought all the remaining stock). Luna "Space Swell," Creative Arts Jazz Ensemble "Now!," the Smiley Winters double, all great records. But maybe it's not that they're blown off but just that they wallow in obscurity. Shit, I could sit here all night and think of obscure stuff that doesn't get props... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 Another vote for ALABAMA CONCERTO; some of Cannonball's finest work, IMHO... and Art Famer's too, for that matter. Can't pick just one, here are a few selections: Frank Lowe, EXOTIC HEARTBREAK Lucky Thompson, TRICOTISM [aka HAPPY LITTLE SUNBEAM] Abbey Lincoln, PEOPLE IN ME [props to Jim Sangrey...] John Stevens, BLUE John Carter, FIELDS Jack Teagarden, ACCENT ON TROMBONE [originally on the Urania label, most recently on CD courtesy of Drive Archive] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJ Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 I think the Hal McKusick material compiled (incompletely) on NOW'S THE TIME (Decca/GRP) is SERIOUSLY underrated. I don't know if it's one of the "most" underrated groupings of recordings, but it's certainly unjustly neglected. Not only was McKusick in his prime, playing a very unique and thoughtful alto, but you get prime Art Farmer and Bill Evans too. We need a non-Procrustean reissue of these dates. Zbigniew Namyslowki's work is definitely unjustly obscure in the U.S. LOLA from the 60's is seminal, and WINOBRANIE from the early 70's is quite a ride. Great jazz and saxophone playing from Poland. John Lewis' solo work is also underrated. Not the MJQ or even his classic Atlantic recordings or the justly mentioned Verve date with LT/Getz/et al, but especially for me those solo dates he made right near the end of his life. The history of jazz piano emanates from your speakers when you listen to those EVOLUTION recordings. His capacity to say volumes with just a note or two never ceases to amaze me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 This is one I love that doesn't seem to be mentioned alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 Couw, or anyone else, do you have these? (I don't, but have always wondered about them. Don't know if they're really "obscure" or "underrated," but I suppose they qualify, to some degree, as being jazz recorded in Eastern Europe.) Recordings I'd list as at least being "under-remarked" (but that probably aren't "obscure") are: • Marilyn Crispell: nothing ever was, anyway. • Howard Riley: The Day Will Come • Albert Mangelsdorff: Diggin': Live in Tokyo • Bill Holman: In a Jazz Orbit • Roland Kirk: Slightly Latin • Von Freeman: Doin' It Right Now • Hal McKusick: Now's the Time (as first mentioned by Tony J.) • Randy Weston: With These Hands • Al Cohn: Cohn on the Saxophone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeith Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 Not sure it would be my top pick, but I like Alabama Concerto too! I so think of it as a Cannonball tour de force that I wonder if I should put it with his stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 Couw, or anyone else, do you have these? RTB, that's Radio-Tele Belgrade (or something close). These 10" are pretty damn rare, even in E-Europe. I saw some once in Berlin, they went for insane prices. AFAIK it's straight ahead jazz in that typical swing to bop style that you also find on a lot of recordings from the JiParis series. Seeing that the pics you link are from Dusty Groove, I assume these have been reissued? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Late Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 Seeing that the pics you link are from Dusty Groove, I assume these have been reissued? Yes, but Dusty Groove is only offering them on vinyl, though for a fairly reasonable price. They did come out on disc in Japan, however, and I think sold for around 1830¥. I would imagine the playing time is quite short. Reinier, or Hans ... did you pick these up? Would be interesting to hear Julius Watkins with Jerome Richardson. I'm not familiar with a lot of the other musicians, but that never stopped me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 I'm not familiar with a lot of the other musicians, but that never stopped me! the first one has Jack Diéval, who also has a pretty nice disk in the JiParis series, feat. the inimitable Guy Lafitte. Need to check the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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