Classic Records Inc

[wolff]

  street singer said:

I just may have to break down and pre-order a copy of the upcoming 45RPM version of 'Soul Station'!

I think this being out in 45rpm was a typo, I saw it too. Looks like it's just 33 1/3 for now. Maybe later as a 45rpm???

[street singer]

I ordered my first Classic Records reissues yesterday from AcousticSounds. Picked up Kenny Drew's 'Undercurrent' (on sale for $20!) and Tina Brooks' 'Back To The Tracks'. Wanted to pick up a few more, but had to resist the urge... I'm looking forward to hearing these. I think my next ones will be the 3 Mobley's...

[Stefan Wood]

Saw the Acoustic Sounds website. Saw the sale items. Made the plunge! 5 Living Stereo items. I will listen and compare....

[Leeway]

  wolff said:

  Leeway said:

Any views on the Classic Records BLUE TRAIN mono vs stereo?

Still not an answer to your question, but....

I also have Classic's "Swingin' Affair" in stereo and it's very, very good. If you need/want this title do not hesitate to search for and buy it. IMO, a super reissue in every way!! I have a feeling I would like this one more than a mint original. The music comes across incredibly and without some of the flaws I notice in originals from this period.

I have a Liberty pressing of this title, and it sounds pretty good to me. What flaws have you noticed? I have some other Dexter as well. As far as I can tell, Dexter on vinyl sounds particularly good; perhaps RVG liked the tone that Dexter got from his horn and made sure to capture it. Anyway, it really comes across. Haven't tried the Classic, but if I didn't already have the title, I would.

BTW, I'm leaning towards the mono Blue Train

[wolff]

  Leeway said:

I have a Liberty pressing of this title, and it sounds pretty good to me.  What flaws have you noticed?  I have some other Dexter as well. As far as I can tell, Dexter on vinyl sounds particularly good; perhaps RVG liked the tone that Dexter got from his horn and made sure to capture it.  Anyway, it really comes across.  Haven't tried the Classic, but if I didn't already have the title, I would. 

BTW, I'm leaning towards the mono Blue Train 

Flaws may be the wrong word. Personal preferences or things I do not like may be better. Read some of my previous posts to get an idea of what I mean. Off hand, I have Go!(M) and Gettin' Around(S) originals, and yes, his tone and message does come across nicely.

When I play Swingin' Affair after other originals from this period I notice a few things: much cleaner sound(doesn't sound nearly as distorted and processed) without being overly bright; highs are actually nice and detailed on this reissue(very real ring and snap and even a touch of real decay); the dynamic range is still limited, but it seems a bit more lifelike; overall there is a more relaxed, lifelike sound and presentation of the music. Bottom line, I like this one more than many(not all) of the originals/reissues from this period. Hope this made some sense and your mileage may vary.

In your opinion, do your Blue Notes have any "flaws' or things you do not like about them?

[Leeway]

  Quote

In your opinion, do your Blue Notes have any "flaws' or things you do not like about them?

It's hard for me to generalize. I probably have a couple hundred plus BN LPs, from W.61st and W.63St pressings, to NY USA, Liberty, UA, up to Conn reissues. Generally, the earlier the better. OTOH, I'm "easy" when it comes to BN vinyl. I generally like Liberty and even UA pressings. Don't like the Manhattan era much at all. I'm indifferent to the sound quality of the Conns. I also have some Classic reissues (the Mobley on 200 g, a very good one, Lee Morgan, Indeed, pretty good, not great, and some others). I have some japan King pressings; these are pretty good.

I think the essence of BN vinyl is the immediacy and presence of the sound; it's right in front of you. I think RVG aimed for that effect. The best ones make you feel you are right in Rudy's living room. Some of the later pressings retain this quality, some don't. The way I look at it, they almost always sound better than CD, although CDs are getting better. Perhaps some people get bugged by this "in your face" quality, but I like it.

[ajf67]

  Quote

BTW, I'm leaning towards the mono Blue Train [whistling.gif]

Leeway, take the plunge, you'll love it. And it's probably the cheapest way you'll ever hear it in mono. It's easy for me to say though, because I live alone and don't have to answer to anyone. If I were to have my spending audited -- like by a wife, say -- I'd have to find ways of sneaking all this shit in the door!

  Quote

I'm "easy" when it comes to BN vinyl. I generally like Liberty and even UA pressings. Don't like the Manhattan era much at all. I'm indifferent to the sound quality of the Conns. I also have some Classic reissues (the Mobley on 200 g, a very good one, Lee Morgan, Indeed, pretty good, not great, and some others). I have some japan King pressings; these are pretty good.

We're the same on this. I like them probably because I came to jazz during the CD era and when I found a lot of these on vinyl it was like I rediscovered them because the sound was so much better. And the difference between the CDs I was used to and even the Libertys and blue labels was significant. And I don't care much for the Manhattans either. The worst that I have are some French ones issued by Pathe Marconi. Very bright and the soundstage is very forward, so much so that it is distracting.

[ajf67]

I have to register my first dissappointment with Classic Records.

I just received their mono version of Moanin' and I think they really botched this. The piano sound is way off, both in terms of its volume in the mix and its tone.

In the intro, Bobby Timmons' piano was so soft I cranked up the volume, then when the horns kicked in they were much too LOUD. I didn't remember there being such a difference between the levels of the intro piano and the beginning of the horns, and I have a bunch of versions of this to compare, including mono and stereo W. 63rd copies. and the RVG CD (I know, I know...). After playing them all, neither the W. 63rds nor the RVG CD sounded like this at all (and man those W. 63rds sounded great). I actually liked the CD better than the Classic LP, which I never thought would happen.

Anyone else have this problem?

[wolff]

  ajf67 said:

I have to register my first dissappointment with Classic Records.

I just received their mono version of Moanin' and I think they really botched this. The piano sound is way off, both in terms of its volume in the mix and its tone.

In the intro, Bobby Timmons' piano was so soft I cranked up the volume, then when the horns kicked in they were much too LOUD. I didn't remember there being such a difference between the levels of the intro piano and the beginning of the horns, and I have a bunch of versions of this to compare, including mono and stereo W. 63rd copies. and the RVG CD (I know, I know...). After playing them all, neither the W. 63rds nor the RVG CD sounded like this at all (and man those W. 63rds sounded great). I actually liked the CD better than the Classic LP, which I never thought would happen.

Anyone else have this problem?

Well, crap!! Sorry, you do not like it. I doubt anyone can do as complete a comparison as you. I only have the 1997 McMaster LP(nothing that iritates, so I guess it's ok) and an unopened RVG CD.

[brownie]

  ajf67 said:

I have to register my first dissappointment with Classic Records.

I just received their mono version of Moanin' and I think they really botched this. The piano sound is way off, both in terms of its volume in the mix and its tone.

In the intro, Bobby Timmons' piano was so soft I cranked up the volume, then when the horns kicked in they were much too LOUD. I didn't remember there being such a difference between the levels of the intro piano and the beginning of the horns, and I have a bunch of versions of this to compare, including mono and stereo W. 63rd copies. and the RVG CD (I know, I know...). After playing them all, neither the W. 63rds nor the RVG CD sounded like this at all (and man those W. 63rds sounded great). I actually liked the CD better than the Classic LP, which I never thought would happen.

Anyone else have this problem?

I have had the 63rdSt version of Moanin' since it came out and have been happy with the sound. Never bothered to purchase a CD version. Those I heard were no match!

[Stefan Wood]

I got my Classic Records shipment in and............... I listened to the only one I have a Living Stereo original -- Shostakovitch "Age of Gold", with the weird cover of an athletic lady with red hair holding a basketball (???). No contest. The original sounds better.

[jazzhound]

The originals always sound better. Who remastered the Blue NOtes anyway?

[wolff]

  Stefan Wood said:

I got my Classic Records shipment in and............... I listened to the only one I have a Living Stereo original -- Shostakovitch "Age of Gold", with the weird cover of an athletic lady with red hair holding a basketball (???). No contest. The original sounds better.

I would love to have nice originals of all the Living Strereo titles I have the Classic reissues of, as I'm sure they sound great(much warmer with incredible tone). Hope you didn't buy too many Classics.

[Stefan Wood]

Only five, and only the ones on sale. Don't get me wrong, they are not bad, but considering that they are working from the same source material, it is interesting the different results. Sure, the material has aged a lot, which can't be helped. I think I am lucky in the sense that DC is a huge vinyl area, if you know where to look. Especially classical. Jazz, forget it -- the kids in the used record stores get them all. I know, I used to be one of them!

[wolff]

  Stefan Wood said:

Only five, and only the ones on sale. Don't get me wrong, they are not bad, but considering that they are working from the same source material, it is interesting the different results. Sure, the material has aged a lot, which can't be helped. I think I am lucky in the sense that DC is a huge vinyl area, if you know where to look. Especially classical. Jazz, forget it -- the kids in the used record stores get them all. I know, I used to be one of them!

Much has been written and discussed comparing the Classics to the originals since Classic started the series. Most complained that the Classics were too bright and lacked the nice string tones and 'bloom' of the originals. Many liked the better bass, detail and dynamics of some of the Classics. The hard to find originals were selling for $100+. Prices have come down a bit.

[Stefan Wood]

More like 50 cents - $2 range, from what I have been seeing. I think the bloom exists, but again, there isn't that depth -- man, those old lps were recorded with a sence of placement and space that can't seem to be equalled.

[sidewinder]

I'm just listening to the Classic Records mono deepgroove reissue of Dizzy Reece's 'Star Bright', a late 50s session recorded with Hank Mobley and Wynton Kelly. Sounds pretty good to me ! I suspect that the sound is not quite as broad as the 47W63rd original but there again originals of this one are well into the hundreds of dollars, if you can find one that is. These Classics reissues are beautifully presented and the Reece in particular is most definitely recommended.

[Leeway]

Is it a question of the mastering? Or is it the quality of the vinyl?

I seem to recall from somewhere or other that the way vinyl is made had to be changed since the 50s and 60s, due to manufacturing related health reasons. Is that true? Would that have an effect on the sound quality? Is there some component lacking in current vinyl?

The other thought that keeps bugging me is that all I know of the Classic record making process is what the company tells us (or maybe, more accurately, hypes to us). How do we know that all this supposedly laborious analog-crafting activity is what it's cracked up to be? Maybe I'm just getting paranoid in my old age, but why should I believe Classic when I can't believe the President

Anyway, I usually will not buy a reissue unless the original or some adequate early issue (such as BN's Liberty or even UA era) is simply not available. There is invariably a noticeable difference between early vinyl and current vinyl.

[ajf67]

  Quote

The other thought that keeps bugging me is that all I know of the Classic record making process is what the company tells us (or maybe, more accurately, hypes to us). How do we know that all this supposedly laborious analog-crafting activity is what it's cracked up to be? Maybe I'm just getting paranoid in my old age, but why should I believe Classic when I can't believe the President [dry.gif]

Count me as paranoid too. I think the Classic Records re-issues are generally very well done, and they certainly sound analog to my ears.

I was even getting paranoid about the Mosaic Herbie Nichols set. I have the LP version, and in the back of the book only the LP sides are listed, no mention of what is contained on the CD version, although it was also issued on CD. However, the only reference to the recording is "Recording engineer: Rudy Van Gelder Digital transfers: Ron McMaster That's it.

I have no other vinyl of Nichols to compare it to, but I was always under the impression that Mosaic's LPs were always from the analog sources and were put through the LP manufacturing process entirely in anolog. Am I just being paranoid?

[Leeway]

As they say, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean you're not being followed!

Anyway, I share your concern about LPs being produced from digital transfers rather than pure analogue. Something has to account for the often thinner sound on recent reissues compared to original pressings (or even original label reissues). A lot of time you will see LPs being hyped for being 180 gram vinyl, while nothing is said about their source or mastering. That's why I prefer, whenever possible, to grub about for an original, even if in less than pristine condition, rather than going the reissue route.

[ajf67]

Amen. I don't really get the 180g thing. I think it is hype b.s.

[wolff]

  ajf67 said:

I was even getting paranoid about the Mosaic Herbie Nichols set. I have the LP version, and in the back of the book only the LP sides are listed, no mention of what is contained on the CD version, although it was also issued on CD. However, the only reference to the recording is "Recording engineer: Rudy Van Gelder Digital transfers: Ron McMaster That's it.

I have no other vinyl of Nichols to compare it to, but I was always under the impression that Mosaic's LPs were always from the analog sources and were put through the LP manufacturing process entirely in anolog. Am I just being paranoid?

I am pretty sure some full and partial sets are from digital source. My Mosaic catalogs are buried away and they listed which were analog and digital. You may want to contact Mosaic to get accurate info.

[wolff]

  sidewinder said:

I'm just listening to the Classic Records mono deepgroove reissue of Dizzy Reece's 'Star Bright', a late 50s session recorded with Hank Mobley and Wynton Kelly. Sounds pretty good to me ! I suspect that the sound is not quite as broad as the 47W63rd original but there again originals of this one are well into the hundreds of dollars, if you can find one that is. These Classics reissues are beautifully presented and the Reece in particular is most definitely recommended.

Thanks for heads-up. I have 5 or 6 Classic Records Blue Note reissues and think they are very good. In listening to their Parlan title recently, I noticed many things they seemed to get right.

[ajf67]

  wolff said:

  ajf67 said:

I was even getting paranoid about the Mosaic Herbie Nichols set.  I have the LP version, and in the back of the book only the LP sides are listed, no mention of what is contained on the CD version, although it was also issued on CD.  However, the only reference to the recording is "Recording engineer: Rudy Van Gelder  Digital transfers: Ron McMaster  That's it. 

I have no other vinyl of Nichols to compare it to, but I was always under the impression that Mosaic's LPs were always from the analog sources and were put through the LP manufacturing process entirely in anolog.  Am I  just being paranoid?

I am pretty sure some full and partial sets are from digital source. My Mosaic catalogs are buried away and they listed which were analog and digital. You may want to contact Mosaic to get accurate info.

Thanks. I had thought that the LPs were always analog masters.

[sidewinder]

  wolff said:

  sidewinder said:

I'm just listening to the Classic Records mono deepgroove reissue of Dizzy Reece's 'Star Bright', a late 50s session recorded with Hank Mobley and Wynton Kelly. Sounds pretty good to me !  I suspect that the sound is not quite as broad as the 47W63rd original but there again originals of this one are well into the hundreds of dollars, if you can find one that is. These Classics reissues are beautifully presented and the Reece in particular is most definitely recommended.

Thanks for heads-up. I have 5 or 6 Classic Records Blue Note reissues and think they are very good. In listening to their Parlan title recently, I noticed many things they seemed to get right.

No problem. There's an element of transient 'oomph' to this LP, if you know what I mean, that I associate with the 47W63rd deepgroove originals. I wonder if that is a result of them using the reconditioned Westrex cutting amp? Funnily enough, the sound quality also seemed to improve even more after several plays of the vinyl. Or maybe its just my imagination..

It's nice to have a deepgroove copy of 'Star Bright'. This one seeems to come up for sale only pretty rarely in original form and the copies I have noticed are usually compromised in terms of their surface condition.

In any event - recommended !

Anyone have the Classic Records Tina Brooks 'True Blue' and care to comment about the sound on it? (I have a King and its pretty nice but I'm curious about the Classic..)

Edited August 30, 2004 by sidewinder