The Grateful Dead Dark Star

[John L]

Yes, Brown-Eyed Women. That was one of the songs that got me going in the "Europe '72" phase of my Dead listener history.

Really nice imagery that I can relate to from some personal experience!

And I love the real folky feel of the B section.

The question is: Could Hunter, Garcia, and the rest of the Dead relate to it through personal experience?

The Dead was always something like a great rock band in search of a roots identity. Just like the Dead could never sound nearly as authentic as Bobby Bland with Turn on Your Lovelight, they couldn't do Country with the anything near the authenticity of a Merle Haggard or Johnny Cash.

But they brought a certain surealistic quality to those country-tinged ballads like Brown-Eyed Women that I find extremely attractive. For me, the best performances of ballads like Brown-Eyed Women, Sugaree, Peggy-O, He's Gone, Loser, They Love Each Other, Ramble on Rose, Wharf Rat, and Tennessee Jed are the most sublime moments of the Dead's music, surpassing even the deep intense jams on Dark Star, the Other One, and Playing in the Band (which I also love).

Edited January 11, 2007 by John L

[orchiddoctor]

I disagree somewhat--though not completely. Jerry and Pig, certainly, have some authenticity. Yes, Cash and Haggard, et al. were the inventors, creating from the land they lived on, but Jerry and Pig were closer to the original than 99% of the wannabes. Listen to Pig on It's a Man's World, and then listen to Mick Jagger on the Chess sessions--the latter sound white as can be, while Pig and Jerry and in the zone. Jerry also spent time going to the source--especially bluegrass--to listen and learn. What I think separates BEW and other such songs from others of the time is that they manage to capture the same sort of feel that other original American songwriters caught--that sense of American identity.

Then there's Bobby on Mama Tried. I don't think Merle had anything to worry about there.

For some Jerry roots:

http://www.shnflac.net/details.php?id=2088...bd22224e69ea628

Disc 1 of 8 - pwa ( 25 / 73:57 )

PA mixer > reel > cassette > cassette > CDR

Provided by Pat Lee

College of San Mateo Folk Festival

College of San Mateo, San Mateo, CA

November 10, 1962

Jerry Garcia - guitar

1. tuning (0:14)

2. Little Birdie (3:25)

3. Walking Boss (3:02)

College of San Mateo Folk Festival

College of San Mateo, San Mateo, CA

November 10, 1962

Jerry Garcia and David Nelson

4. intro ("honest Jerry Garcia" (0:16)

5. The Miller's Will (3:25)

6. Deep Elem Blues (4:04)

7. Will The Circle Be Unbroken (4:35)

8. I Truly Understand (4:21)

9. "Cousin Elmer" (3:07)

10. The Raging Sea (3:42)

11. Cannonball Blues (3:19)

12. The Cuckoo (4:20)

13. Man Of Constant Sorrow (Jerry Garcia - a capella) (3:40)

The Hart Valley Drifters

College of San Mateo Folk Festival

College of San Mateo, San Mateo, CA

November 10, 1962

Jerry "Earl Scruggs" Garcia - banjo and guitar

Robert Hunter - bass

David Nelson - guitar

Norman Van Mastricht - guitar and dobro

14. tuning (1:59)

15. intro > Handsome Molly (x) (2:44)

16. tuning (1:4

17. intro > Handsome Molly (3:0

18. "Cousin Elmer is back..." (2:35)

19. Pig In A Pen (2:19)

20. Banks Of The Ohio (4:1

21. "Cousin Elmer" (3:25)

22. Pay My Money Down (3:07)

23. Nine Pound Hammer (2:27)

24. Salty Dog Blues (2:30)

25. "For our final group, Dean Hammer and

his Nails..." > If I Had A Hammer (2:05)

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Disc 2 of 8 - pwba_16_20_16p_17p ( 22 / 58:54 )

PA mixer > reel > cassette > cassette > CDR

Provided by Joani Walker, via Paul Scotton

The Wildwood Boys

The Tangent, Palo Alto, CA

February 22, 1963

Jerry Garcia - banjo

Robert Hunter - guitar

David Nelson - mandolin

Norman Van Mastricht - bass

1. Rolling In My Sweet Baby's Arms (2:54)

2. Introductions (0:55)

3. Jerry's Breakdown (2:12)

4. Standing In The Need Of Prayer (3:01)

5. Muleskinner Blues (3:41)

6. Saturday Night Shuffle (2:52)

7. "we're back again" > Pike County Breakdown (2:14)

8. The Little Sparrow (4:52)

9. (x) We Shall Not Be Moved (2:46)

The Second Story Men

The Tangent, Palo Alto, CA, xx-xx-63

Rod Albin, Peter Albin, Ellen Cavanaugh, Ron McKernan

10. When The World's On Fire (2:55)

11. Hard Luck Woman > Katie Mae (4:4

12. Jenny Jenkins (3:06)

13. Rocky Mountain Blues (3:49)

14. Billy Grimes, The Rover (2:54)

15. Jubilee (1:56)

Peter Albin and Ron McKernan

(NOTE: tape is too fast?)

The Tangent, Palo Alto, CA, xx-xx-64

16. (x) John Henry (2:07)

17. Hoochie Coochie Man (2:17)

Mother McCree's Uptown Jug Champions

The Tangent, Palo Alto, CA, xx-xx-64

18. Jerry Garcia talks... (0:51)

19. I'm Satisfied With my Gal (1:54)

20. The Rub (Ain't It Crazy) (1:53)

Peter Albin and Ron McKernan

(NOTE: pitched down to 90% of tracks 16. and 17.)

The Tangent, Palo Alto, CA, xx-xx-64

21. (x) John Henry (2:21)

22. Hoochie Coochie Man (2:34)

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Disc 3 of 8 - pwc ( 15 / 25:43 )

PA mixer > reel > cassette > cassette > CDR

Provided by Joani Walker, via Paul Scotton

The Black Mountain Boys

March 6, 1964

Jerry Garcia - banjo

Robert Hunter - bass

David Nelson - mandolin

Eric Thompson - guitar

1. (x) Monroe's Hornpipe (1:42)

2. Katie Kline (2:07)

3. Intros (0:45)

4. Homestead On The Farm (2:30)

5. talking about "Barefoot Nellie" (1:02)

6. Barefoot Nellie (2:33)

7. song intro (0:52)

8. She's More To Be Pitied (2:19)

9. song intro (1:09)

10. Noah's Blues (2:09)

11. Somebody Touched Me (2:31)

12. talk (0:34)

13. Who'll Sing For Me? (2:05)

14. Darling Aller Lee (2:07)

15. Outro (John Hardy (?)) and break (1:17)

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Disc 4 of 8 - pwda ( 35 / 75:27 )

PA mixer > reel > cassette > cassette > CDR

Provided by Joani Walker, via Paul Scotton

Sleepy Hollow Hog Stompers

The 'new' Boar's Head Coffeehouse

Jewish Community Center, San Carlos, CA

June 11, 1962

Jerry Garcia - guitar and banjo

Marshall Leicester - banjo and guitar

Dick Arnold - fiddle

1. (x) Run Mountain (3:13)

2. talk (0:21)

3. Billy Grimes, The Rover (2:50)

4. looking for a capo talk (0:49)

5. Cannonball Blues (2:4

6. fiddle player talk (1:02)

7. Devilish Mary (3:12)

8. intros (0:35)

9. Buck Dancer's Choice (1:49)

10. Little Birdie (3:15)

11. "...tough luck, we're back..." (0:41)

12. Sally Gooding (1:27)

13. talk (0:36)

14. Hold The Woodpile Down (3:2

15. end of set talk (0:20)

16. tuning (0:21)

17. Crow Black Chicken (2:34)

18. talk (0:15)

19. tuning > The Johnson Boys (4:03)

20. talk (0:33)

21. Shady Grove (2:25)

22. talk and tuning (2:33)

23. Uncle Joe (2:12)

24. tuning (and gap) (1:19)

25. Sweet Sunny South (3:10)

26. All Go Hungry Hash House (3:54)

27. Man Of Constant Sorrow (2:22)

28. Yonder He Goes (Rabbit Chase) (3:00)

29. Three Men Went A-Hunting (2:06)

The 'new' Boar's Head Coffeehouse

Jewish Community Center, San Carlos, CA

possibly June 11, 1962

Jerry Garcia, Ron McKernan, and Mike Sector

30. Blues Jam (2:23)

31. Careless Love > In The Pines (4:02)

32. Going To Chicago (3:07)

33. Mike Sector introduces himself (0:21)

34. Jerry Garcia introduces Ron > 99 Years (5:14)

35. Blue Goose (possibly just Mike Sector) (3:02)

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Disc 5 of 8

All selections are from a KFOG re-broadcast

Provided by Michael Parrish

Jerry Garcia and Sarah Ruppenthal Garcia

The Tangent, Palo Alto, CA

May 4, 1963

Jerry Garcia - vocals, guitar, banjo, fiddle, and mandolin; Sarah

Ruppenthal Garcia [Garcia's first wife] - vocals and guitar

1. KFOG deejay > (x) Deep Elem Blues (3:03)

2. Will The Weaver (2:41)

3. I Truly Understand (3:16)

4. All The Good Times Are Past And Gone (3:12)

5. Long Black Veil (4:40)

6. JG and SR got married the previous week on April 25, 1963 >

The Man Who Wrote 'Home Sweet Home' Never Was A Married Man (3:26)

7. Keno The Rent Man (2:19)

8. Some Foggy Mountain Top >

"Wow!" KFOG deejay (2:52)

The Wildwood Boys

The Tangent, Palo Alto, CA

February 22, 1963

Jerry Garcia - banjo

Robert Hunter - guitar

David Nelson - mandolin

Norman Van Mastricht - bass

9. Rolling In My Sweet Baby's Arms (2:52)

10. Intro by Hunter (0:5

11. Jerry's Breakdown (2:10)

12. Standing In The Need Of Prayer (3:03)

13. Muleskinner Blues (3:39)

14. Saturday Night Shuffle (a Merl Travis tune)(2:44)

15. Pike County Breakdown (2:00)

16. intro > The Little Sparrow (x) (2:51)

17. (x) intro (0:41)

18. The Little Sparrow (3:52)

19. We Shall Not Be Moved (2:25)

20. KFOG deejay and Richard Rafel (0:32)

The Second Story Men

The Tangent, Palo Alto, CA, xx-xx-63

Rod Albin, Peter Albin, Ellen Cavanaugh, and Ron McKernan,

21. Hard Luck Woman > Katie Mae (4:43)

22. Rocky Mountain Blues (3:45)

23. "Oh, boy..." KFOG deejay (0:04)

------------------------------------------------------------------

Disc 6 of 8 - pwfa ( 8 / 30:46 )

PA mixer > reel > cassette > cassette > CDR

NOTE: tape may or may not have had Dolby ON

Provided by Joani Walker, via Paul Scotton

Jerry Garcia and Sarah Ruppenthal Garcia

The Tangent, Palo Alto, CA

May 4, 1963

Jerry Garcia - vocals, guitar, banjo, fiddle, and mandolin; Sarah

Ruppenthal Garcia [Garcia's first wife] - vocals and guitar

1. (x) Deep Elem Blues (3:46)

2. Will The Weaver (3:35)

3. I Truly Understand (3:51)

4. All The Good Times Are Past And Gone (3:35)

5. Long Black Veil (4:43)

6. The Man Who Wrote 'Home Sweet Home' Never Was A Married Man (3:51)

7. Keno The Rent Man (3:44)

8. Some Foggy Mountain Top (3:59)

------------------------------------------------------------------

Disc 7 of 8 - pwg ( 8 / 30:36 )

PA mixer > reel > cassette > cassette > CDR

NOTE: tape may or may not have had Dolby ON

Provided by Joani Walker, via Paul Scotton

Jerry Garcia and Sarah Ruppenthal Garcia

The Tangent, Palo Alto, CA

May 4, 1963

Jerry Garcia - vocals, guitar, banjo, fiddle, and mandolin; Sarah

Ruppenthal Garcia [Garcia's first wife] - vocals and guitar

1. (x) Deep Elem Blues (3:16)

2. Will The Weaver (3:36)

3. I Truly Understand (3:51)

4. All The Good Times Are Past And Gone (3:34)

5. Long Black Veil (4:42)

6. The Man Who Wrote 'Home Sweet Home' Never Was A Married Man (3:50)

7. Keno The Rent Man (3:46)

8. Some Foggy Mountain Top (3:59)

------------------------------------------------------------------

Disc 8 of 8 - pwh ( 21 / 53:08 )

PA mixer > reel > cassette > cassette > CDR

Provided by Joani Walker, via Paul Scotton

(NOTE: the date for either of these is not certain; different sources

switch the dates for these two)

Burlingame, CA

January xx, 1962

Jerry Garcia and others (possibly Robert Hunter?)

1. Bolshevik In Hell (0:46)

2. talk about the bomb (0:15)

3. Rose Connelly (1:49)

4. Long Lonesome Road (2:45)

5. Railroad Bill (3:37)

6. The Wagoner's Lad (2:01)

7. Fortune (3:45)

8. Pay Me My Money Down (2:12)

9. Greenback Dollar (2:20)

10. Instrumental (1:10)

11. I'm A Good Old Rebel (1:49)

12. (x) Wealthy Old Maid (2:31)

Carlos Bookstall's loft called 'Boar's Head'

San Carlos, CA

July xx, 1961

Jerry Garcia, Robert Hunter, and Marshall Leicester

13. (x) talk, tuning, Banjo Instrumental (2:35)

14. 'last night a banjo string broke' > Poor Ellen Smith (4:00)

15. Wildwood Flower (3:15)

16. (x) Brown's Ferry Blues (2:19)

17. Jesse James (4:44)

18. talk (2:20)

19. No One Will Stand By Me (2:55)

20. All The Good Times Are Past And Gone (3:13)

21. Darling Corey (2:45)

I'm downloading these now--20 seeders should speed it up.

I guess I'll be burning Lon a set!

[John L]

Yes, Jerry could certainly play good Bluegrass. He did so later in his career as well.

I agree with you that what the Dead created was very authentic and quintessentially American. But I would only conjecture that this authenticity lies primarily in the end product of their particular synthesis of American music, as opposed to the bare bones blues, R&B, country, or Tex Mex elements that enter the mix.

That early Garcia collection looks very interesting.

Edited January 11, 2007 by John L

[jazzbo]

Yes, Brown-Eyed Women. That was one of the songs that got me going in the "Europe '72" phase of my Dead listener history.

Really nice imagery that I can relate to from some personal experience!

And I love the real folky feel of the B section.

The question is: Could Hunter, Garcia, and the rest of the Dead relate to it through personal experience?

I bet the answer is yes, they could relate.

To me one of the great appeals of Hunter's lyrics is the "unspecificity" of them, which allows listeners to conjure up their own referrences and so be involved in the song. . . .

[orchiddoctor]

I agree with that assessment. Neither Jerry nor Pig were born into the particular times and places that gave birth to country and blues. Hell, San Francisco ain't Kentucky; and I certainly don't think Tennessee Jed has much authenticity. But they sure could play the stuff--and, for a brief time--Hunter could write about it.

It would be interesting to put together a compilation of the originals that Pig covered.

[Spontooneous]

link

[orchiddoctor]

Only 8 more shopping days until the release of 12-31-76. January 23, a day that shall live in infamy.

That's because it will be my 23rd--uh--55th birthday. 1976 (really 1977) Thirty years ago!!!! I was 25.

Ah, the old dog looks back with fondness to the time when . . . .

Why am I telling you this? A cheap attempt to get you guys to buy me copy?

Nah.

[jazzbo]

Yes, I have this one preordered. . . though I was so disappointed when this was announced that it wasn't a show from an earlier year.

Bill, you're still young. Might have another 55 to go!

[Roundsound]

I'm excited. To save on shipping, I'm getting 2 other Dick Picks with the new old show.

[orchiddoctor]

Yes, I have this one preordered. . . though I was so disappointed when this was announced that it wasn't a show from an earlier year.

Bill, you're still young. Might have another 55 to go!

Young and crazy, Lon. Working now on downloading all the ORIGINALS to Pig's songs--found 17 so far!

[John L]

Those who embody the spirit of the Pig never age.

[orchiddoctor]

Those who embody the spirit of the Pig never age.

However, poor Piggers never got to age.

[orchiddoctor]

Just had too much fun burning the following tunes which were the original versions of most of Pig's songs (that's what happens when your daughter comes by to add tunes to her IPOD).

As follows: Katie Mae, Bring Me My Shotgun; The Rub--Lightnin' Hopkins

There is Somthing on Your Mind--Etta James

Who Do You Love--Bo Diddly

Turn on Your Lovelight--Bobby "ble" Bland

It Hurts Me too--Elmore James

Smokestack Lightnin' Howlin' Wolf

It's A Man's, Man's World James Brown

Next Time You See Me--James Cotton

Big Boss Man-Jimmy Reed

Hard to Hande, Pain in My Heart--Otis Redding

I'm a Kingbee--Slim Harpo

Good Morning Little Schoolgirl--Sonny Boy Williamson

Searchin'--The Coasters

The Same Thing--Muddy Waters

In the Midnight Hour--Wilson Pickett

Run, Rudolph Run, Chuck Berry

She's Mine and Big Boy Pete are currently not available for download.

[jazzbo]

Good work, oh Pigpen historian!

[John L]

Great!

"There is Something on Your Mind" is actually an old Big Jay McNeely hit from the 50s. Bobby Marchan scored with it too.

"Next Time You See Me" is a Junior Parker classic. Cotton (and most likely Pig) got it from him.

"It Hurts Me Too" is a Tampa Red original, although Elmore James did a great job in covering it. Pig most likely got it from Elmore.

Edited January 17, 2007 by John L

[orchiddoctor]

Great!

"There is Something on Your Mind" is actually an old Big Jay McNeely hit from the 50s. Bobby Marchan scored with it too.

"Next Time You See Me" is a Junior Parker classic. Cotton (and most likely Pig) got it from him.

"It Hurts Me Too" is a Tampa Red original, although Elmore James did a great job in covering it. Pig most likely got it from Elmore.

Hard to find some of the original originals--urge, etc. will only go so far in obtaining rights to obscure stuff.

Did find the Tampa Red version of Hurts me Too! Thanks.

ANy additions, suggestions, are of course welcome.

Edited January 17, 2007 by orchiddoctor

[John L]

Great!

"There is Something on Your Mind" is actually an old Big Jay McNeely hit from the 50s. Bobby Marchan scored with it too.

"Next Time You See Me" is a Junior Parker classic. Cotton (and most likely Pig) got it from him.

"It Hurts Me Too" is a Tampa Red original, although Elmore James did a great job in covering it. Pig most likely got it from Elmore.

Hard to find some of the original originals--urge, etc. will only go so far in obtaining rights to obscure stuff.

Did find the Tampa Red version of Hurts me Too! Thanks.

ANy additions, suggestions, are of course welcome.

The others ones that I listed shouldn't be too hard to find. You can PM me if you need a little help.

[orchiddoctor]

I can find them; I just can't download them. Same with "She's Mine," which is on a Smithsonian release that is not cleared for dl--except in some obscure place in England which wants me to jump through hoops and rings of fire.

Sure--help would be greatly appreciated. Since the cd runs only about 60 or so minutes as is, I have room for both originals and versions Pig likely worked with.

[orchiddoctor]

Thanks to John, I can complete my little project!

[vajerzy]

Received the Cow Palace CD yesterday- nice package. The bonus CD wasn't included so I called the Dead today- the guy I spoke with said that they didn't get as many discs as there were pre-orders. They're getting another batch in a week or two and they will be mailed out to the people who didn't receive one.

Haven't played the discs yet- I will tomorrow. I read the booklet though....

[mr jazz]

Received the Cow Palace CD yesterday- nice package. The bonus CD wasn't included so I called the Dead today- the guy I spoke with said that they didn't get as many discs as there were pre-orders. They're getting another batch in a week or two and they will be mailed out to the people who didn't receive one.

Haven't played the discs yet- I will tomorrow. I read the booklet though....

You can stream Disc 2 of the set here:

http://www.musicbox-online.com/media.html

scroll down

[Matthew]

Received the Cow Palace CD yesterday- nice package. The bonus CD wasn't included so I called the Dead today- the guy I spoke with said that they didn't get as many discs as there were pre-orders. They're getting another batch in a week or two and they will be mailed out to the people who didn't receive one.

Haven't played the discs yet- I will tomorrow. I read the booklet though....

You can stream Disc 2 of the set here:

http://www.musicbox-online.com/media.html

scroll down

Thanks for the link, I must be off the Dead right now, I heard nothing to make me want to go out and buy it. Maybe later on I might get back on the Dead bandwagon.

[Tony Pusey]

Mathew-is this a case of the buss came by and I got off?

[jazzbo]

Received mine yesterday too. . . got the bonus disc. Spun the first disc here at work. 'Salright!

[Matthew]

Mathew-is this a case of the buss came by and I got off?

Yeah, I'm afraid it is. I always fade in-and-out over the Dead. Sometimes I can't get enough of them, others, it's like: "Do I really need to hear Playing in the Band or Not Fade Away another time?"

Edited January 25, 2007 by Matthew