The Grateful Dead Dark Star

[jazzbo]

Right.

For me the information about the early taping, the interviews, and the listing of the shows and the logistical information of '65-'74 will be indispensible. . . . I am fascinated with these aspects and years and here are all these pages! A real treat for me.

[orchiddoctor]

Latvala! (and the rest).

Interesting stuff, indeed.

[Chalupa]

Right.

For me the information about the early taping, the interviews, and the listing of the shows and the logistical information of '65-'74 will be indispensible. . . . I am fascinated with these aspects and years and here are all these pages! A real treat for me.

Yes.

I'm sorry if my tone was off putting. I do like the Compendiums and think overall they did a great job. Hey I bought all 3 volumes!

[Chalupa]

It's easy to criticize the critics--I do it all the time. But I agree with Chalupa that the choice of a few shows for prolongued treatment can be hazardous to your health. Still, it's interesting to read the history and insight this adds to the review.

My bone to pick is that with so many different critics, how can you get a sense for their personal likes and dislikes OR their ability to criticise a work? How steeped in the Dead are they? And then there are those who love certain eras and don't like others. Would you want me to review shows in the eighties and nineties? I think not. I don't like their style post 1974.

But they have Brian Dykes review the bulk of the spring '71 shows. His attitude is clear: he thinks spring '71 is their weakest period! Naturally, he doesn't care for much.

Still, indispensible. I could not do a better job.

Of course, there are also the good opinions posted here

Agree w/ this. I think if there is one thing I got out of the Compendiums it's this - Don't judge a show by it's set list. Some shows look great on paper do nothing for me. Conversely, there are shows that look terrible on paper(this happens more in the 80's /90's then in the early years) which have blown me away when I heard the tapes. Example of the former 2/11/69 killer set list but the shows are just okay(in context of 1969 shows), imo. Example of the latter is 6/18/74 which has a so - so(by 1974 standards) set list but the music just cooks, especially that second set.

Ultimately, it's your ears that will decide.

RE:Spring/Summer '71

I think of the shows spanning the 68-74 time period, AKA the Golden Era, the shows from Spring/Summer '71 are probably the weakest. That's not to say that there are not good shows from this period(The Fillmore East run is fantastic as are the summer BCT shows) it's just that compared to what came before and after, these shows come up lacking. Pig Pen was running on vapors by that point and the band was still trying to adjust to the losses of TC and Mickey. As others have noted there is a "garage band" feeling to a lot of the shows from this time period, Additionally, the lack of extended jamming that is one of the other reasons why I stay away from this time period. Again, YMMV.

[orchiddoctor]

It's easy to criticize the critics--I do it all the time. But I agree with Chalupa that the choice of a few shows for prolongued treatment can be hazardous to your health. Still, it's interesting to read the history and insight this adds to the review.

My bone to pick is that with so many different critics, how can you get a sense for their personal likes and dislikes OR their ability to criticise a work? How steeped in the Dead are they? And then there are those who love certain eras and don't like others. Would you want me to review shows in the eighties and nineties? I think not. I don't like their style post 1974.

But they have Brian Dykes review the bulk of the spring '71 shows. His attitude is clear: he thinks spring '71 is their weakest period! Naturally, he doesn't care for much.

Still, indispensible. I could not do a better job.

Of course, there are also the good opinions posted here

Agree w/ this. I think if there is one thing I got out of the Compendiums it's this - Don't judge a show by it's set list. Some shows look great on paper do nothing for me. Conversely, there are shows that look terrible on paper(this happens more in the 80's /90's then in the early years) which have blown me away when I heard the tapes. Example of the former 2/11/69 killer set list but the shows are just okay(in context of 1969 shows), imo. Example of the latter is 6/18/74 which has a so - so(by 1974 standards) set list but the music just cooks, especially that second set.

Ultimately, it's your ears that will decide.

RE:Spring/Summer '71

I think of the shows spanning the 68-74 time period, AKA the Golden Era, the shows from Spring/Summer '71 are probably the weakest. That's not to say that there are not good shows from this period(The Fillmore East run is fantastic as are the summer BCT shows) it's just that compared to what came before and after, these shows come up lacking. Pig Pen was running on vapors by that point and the band was still trying to adjust to the losses of TC and Mickey. As others have noted there is a "garage band" feeling to a lot of the shows from this time period, Additionally, the lack of extended jamming that is one of the other reasons why I stay away from this time period. Again, YMMV.

I agree that winter spring '71 isn't the most exciting, not like winter spring of 70 or certainly 1972.

A lot of semi-snoozers in that college tour. And several pages on the Princeton show when the punch line was "Sold, the Brooklyn Bridge for a dollah and a quarter" is overdone. I just feel that Mr. Dykes compromises his objectivity with his predisposition. But, who doesn't have a favorite period? I like Dwork and Getz' review the best as they seem to have a deeper knowledge and commitment that most. Maybe that's why they are the editors?

Still, the Compendium is a good place to start. And, stop me if I'm wrong, but has anyone else been covered so thoroughly--especially with a 30 year career with thousands of gigs? makes for great bathtub reading!

The only thing I got to say is if you don't like Pigpen, you suck.

Edited August 22, 2006 by orchiddoctor

[jazzbo]

The only thing I got to say is if you don't like Pigpen, you suck.

WORD!

[jazzbo]

Listening to "Three Blind Mice." No, I mean "Shakedown Street." Sometimes that guitar effect Jer uses is too much. . . in a good way!

[orchiddoctor]

I know my love of Pig is a bit obvious, but I 've noticed something.

I've been doing some compilations of Pig from each year, and I realize how few songs he sang--both in terms of different tunes and performances. It's been said often that he was the original front man. I don't see that, not when I look at the available material from 66, 67,68 etc. He was never in rotation as every third song--maybe 5th or so. Yes, he had a few shows that were his, and he was the showstopper, but I wish he had had more presence and had kept more tunes in the repetoire--like It's a Man's, Man's World and Easy Wind. or Kingbee. Or Hard to Handle. Or Midnight Hour. Or . . . . . .

[jazzbo]

I find it so interesting that more than once Jerry has called Pigpen the only one with talent in the band at first. And it's true that his role was more prominent early on and as the others "bloomed" they grabbed more time and attention and Pigpen's place diminished. We have what we have, what happened happened, but I also wish that Blue Ron had kept a more diverse repretoire as time went by.

Jerry said that Ron really didn't like being the front man and yet he was such a monster entertainer and manipulator of audiences. Jerry said that Ron was at his best by himself with a guitar in a living room. . . .I actually believe that is a strong possibility from the recorded evidence; wish there were more recordings along those lines.

What I really dig about the music that features Pigpen is how the band plays. . . . They are just so "on" most every time Pig is at the mike, and they seem to play differently: they have blues and r and b hats on and they seem to love it. Jerry's guitar is just so "hot" behind Ron in 1966 and 1967 especially, that big Guild is just stinging out blues lines to die for.

[orchiddoctor]

A little story about meeting the Pig.

I got into the dead when they played in NYC at the Cafe AuGoGo in 1967. I was a junior in highschool at the time, and I lived only a few miles uptown from the village. In late 1968, a good friend of mine got me a slot ushering at the Fillmore East. I got to hang in the aisles and see all sorts of music roll on by. Backstage was always wide open--just had to watch what you drank.

Bill G. had a loose softball team that played teams formed by several of the bands that came to play at the Fillmore East. Mostly S.F. regulars like the Dead, the Airplane, Quicksilver, etc. Usually their teams would have more quippies than band members.

One fine Saturday afternoon in Central Park, we were playing the Dead. Usually, only a few band members made it to the game; the rest were friends or whomever. This time--God knows why--Pig came by. They bullied him into taking an at bat. This was hilarious enough--imagine a t-shirted Pig trying to figure out how to hold the damn thing!

I was pitching (now there's a joke!), and I threw a ball that was a bit close for his liking. He walked out to the mound, the meanest look on his face, and told me that if I did it again, he'd rip off my head and pitch it up my ass. Then I took the ball and held it up to his face and said something really lame to the effect of suck on this.

Pig dropped the fake scowl and hit the floor howling with laughter. He decided that he'd had enough of softball and suggested we go find something to drink.

Who was I to say no?

A majestic, kind, gentle, funny, kickass motherfucker.

[jazzbo]

Yes, very cool story (which I read elsewhere)* It must have been quite a trip to meet the man, and that way!

*Pigpen Discussion Page

Edited August 23, 2006 by jazzbo

[kenny weir]

The only thing I got to say is if you don't like Pigpen, you suck.

I suck.

[kenny weir]

like It's a Man's, Man's World and Easy Wind. or Kingbee. Or Hard to Handle. Or Midnight Hour. Or . . . . . .

Seriously, the versions I've heard are pretty humiliating, IMNSO, compared to Slim Harpo or Etta James - an outlook with which I'm sure Pigpen would agree.

[orchiddoctor]

like It's a Man's, Man's World and Easy Wind. or Kingbee. Or Hard to Handle. Or Midnight Hour. Or . . . . . .

Seriously, the versions I've heard are pretty humiliating, IMNSO, compared to Slim Harpo or Etta James - an outlook with which I'm sure Pigpen would agree.

Yes he would--ever the humble man. But, Mr. Weir, you suck! You must think this is America with that high-fallutin' opinion of yours.

[mr jazz]

saw Bruce Hornsby last night and he was smoking. One of the many highlights was his "Grateful Dead" version of Valley Road-he referenced the Wembley arena show in 1990 with his first Dead tour. I saw his first show with the boys at MSG a few weeks prior and many more. He always pushed the band in the right direction.

[jazzbo]

like It's a Man's, Man's World and Easy Wind. or Kingbee. Or Hard to Handle. Or Midnight Hour. Or . . . . . .

Seriously, the versions I've heard are pretty humiliating, IMNSO, compared to Slim Harpo or Etta James - an outlook with which I'm sure Pigpen would agree.

I think the Dead and Pigpen had different intentions than Slim and Etta etc. with the material. . . . I love the way the band played these numbers behind him, and I love the way that Ron worked the audience with preaching and the off-the-cuff remarks . . . . I like the Dead tons and like many other perfformances of other material, but I just really respond to these features for Ron strongly.

You suck!

Edited August 25, 2006 by jazzbo

[shrugs]

Pig owned Hard To Handle IMO.

I remember hearing an amazing Midnight Hour on the Grateful Dead Hour when I was in middle school. It blew my mind. You couldn't find bootlegs(here in New Orleans) that were worth a damn back then(59th generation tapes) so I would record the Dead hour as often as I could.

[Noj]

I'm listening to One From The Vault right now...

[shrugs]

Grateful Dead - January 30, 1978

Uptown Theatre - Chicago, IL

if the Franklin's don't get you......

Edited August 26, 2006 by shrugs

[orchiddoctor]

DRUM ROLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL:

And they're off to the races! Rhino's first release. Pure Jerry, all Jerry, nothing but Jerry, the first half being retreads of course!

http://stores.musictoday.com/store/product...OMBO&sfid=2

[jazzbo]

Just got a "jerry-gram" that Rhino is putting out a new two cd "Best of Jerry Garcia" that has one studio best of, and a live disc with some previously unreleased stuff.

PLUS of course by preordering there are two bonus discs you get, one a complete interview of Jerry by Dr. Demento, another more live material considered for but bumped from the second disc of the "Best of" two cd.

And intriguingly at the bottom of the email is THIS:

Grateful Dead Vault News

Stay tuned for upcoming details regarding a very special Grateful Dead Vault release on the horizon for late this year. We look forward to sending production updates as they develop in the weeks ahead!

[jazzbo]

Wow, our posts were one minute apart with the news!

[orchiddoctor]

Wow, our posts were one minute apart with the news!

The news or the snooze? Half the disc is a best of--we already had the complete box--and a selection of live stuff? Bonus cd with only three tunes? Can't do better than that?

Not off to a good start.

How'z about a best of Pigpen?

[jazzbo]

Well, yeah. But I found this pretty interesting, at the bottom of the email I received:

Grateful Dead Vault News

Stay tuned for upcoming details regarding a very special Grateful Dead Vault release on the horizon for late this year. We look forward to sending production updates as they develop in the weeks ahead!

I wonder if that is the box set that mysteriously hand an order page and then did not appear earlier in the year?

[orchiddoctor]

Well, yeah. But I found this pretty interesting, at the bottom of the email I received:

Grateful Dead Vault News

Stay tuned for upcoming details regarding a very special Grateful Dead Vault release on the horizon for late this year. We look forward to sending production updates as they develop in the weeks ahead!

I wonder if that is the box set that mysteriously hand an order page and then did not appear earlier in the year?

Maybe. But Rhino seems to like to reissue/repackage stuff.