The Grateful Dead Dark Star

[AmirBagachelles]

I think the fact or alleged fact that Vince tried to do himself in on the Ratdog tour bus was taken by Weir as an aggressive statement of disdain, indifference for the struggles (financial, community) ahead. And we should or could view Weir's decision to take Vince under Ratdog's wing in the first place as a show of faith. The lack of support in getting him medical help is inexcusable, but I wouldn't condemn their whole scene as too by that one uncompassionate act. What I take away is that the charismatic grip that Jerry had on thousands from a distance must have been potentially overpowering for some who knew him well. John Kahn also seemed similarly overcome with grief, and we know what a mess was wrought by JG's unstable family relationships. The guy was huge, personally and musically, and if the other band members seem frail by comparison, I guess that is not unexpected.

[orchiddoctor]

I think the fact or alleged fact that Vince tried to do himself in on the Ratdog tour bus was taken by Weir as an aggressive statement of disdain, indifference for the struggles (financial, community) ahead. And we should or could view Weir's decision to take Vince under Ratdog's wing in the first place as a show of faith. The lack of support in getting him medical help is inexcusable, but I wouldn't condemn their whole scene as too by that one uncompassionate act. What I take away is that the charismatic grip that Jerry had on thousands from a distance must have been potentially overpowering for some who knew him well. John Kahn also seemed similarly overcome with grief, and we know what a mess was wrought by JG's unstable family relationships. The guy was huge, personally and musically, and if the other band members seem frail by comparison, I guess that is not unexpected.

The Grateful Dead, by all accounts, were as rough a group to work for as anyone. They always embraced the notion that other members' vices and personal issues were not a band matter--with the exception of Jerry's huge drug habit. They didn't exactly stand by Pigpen or Godchaux or even Brent. Live and let live--or die. I don't think anyone was intentionally mean, but looking the other way is just as unacceptable. Live and let die?

[jazzbo]

Well, I've decided I really DO like the "Terrapin" cd by Joe Gallant and the Illuminati; I've listened to it a half a dozen times now. Sort of insane. In a great way.

I've picked up and listened to "Blues for Allah" which is a live recording from the Knitting Factory. It's good. So far it seems less insane to me. It needs hearing again and again.

[jazzbo]

Well, downloaded "Digital Download Series, Vol. 6" the Carousel date.

Man. . . this is a good one. Starting right off with one of the really good "Turn on your Love Light"s with killer Bobby (guitar) and Pigpen (personality)!

Edited June 19, 2006 by jazzbo

[jazzbo]

I've now got all the Download Series titles from the years 1968-1973. I'll probably get the others up through the deaprture of the Godchauxs from the band. Try as I might I just can't generate interest in the band after that beyond the ones I already have (and I'm not really that interested in those). Not really sure what the reason for that is. There's a few songs I like from then, "Althea," "Passenger,""Feel Like A Stranger". . . .And I have NOT explored a lot of the shows (saw them just once during this period, early on in the period, 1980 in Cleveland). I figure that when I get really desperate for new Dead to hear I'll start buying those downloads or Dick Picks, oldest ones first. . . .

Next for me is to get about three or four Dick's Picks from the 1968-1973 period I still lack, probably will get the "Houseboat Tapes" first. Should have some birthday money in a month and a half or so.

[Spontooneous]

That St. Louis 1969 download has maybe my favorite "Other One." Is that Garcia on steel guitar near the end of it?

[jazzbo]

Steel or slide. . . will have to listen again soon.

It's a great date.

[orchiddoctor]

Steel or slide. . . will have to listen again soon.

It's a great date.

Steel, most likely. He was playing around with in on all sorts of tunes, including a few versions of Hard to Handle (which suck big time). As to the Houseboat Tapes--relatively weak imo. More like a nice discovery that hadn't made the rounds. They weren't on a tour, so they weren't as sharp. And the introduction of Keith was only two months away. Empty Pages, though--well . . . .

[jazzbo]

You're probably right. I haven't retained in my memory banks when he first got and began plucking the steel guitar.

I've got to check out the Houseboat tapes. Just have to. I don't expect them to be some miraculous find, but I really like all the shows from this year I've heard, and there's room for more. . .

[orchiddoctor]

You're probably right. I haven't retained in my memory banks when he first got and began plucking the steel guitar.

I've got to check out the Houseboat tapes. Just have to. I don't expect them to be some miraculous find, but I really like all the shows from this year I've heard, and there's room for more. . .

I can't say it's BAD; it's just that there are so many superlative shows from the same era. If you get the time, go on archive and play the gaelic park show. It's from a week or so later. The last Hard to Handle Pigpen sang. Maybe the last St. Stephen until 1976? Sounds almost like they knew this and rose to the occasion. It was a very strange venue with a great crowd. Gaelic Park is at the end of the Broadway line in the Bronx (at Mahattan College--go figure). You could feel the subway (it's elevated) but you couldn't hear it over the band. The only time I arrive early for a dead show and they had already begun.

Still, hope you enjoy the rescued tapes.

[jazzbo]

gosh. . . I've just been avoiding the archive. I hate to stream things and not have them when I want them on cd, and I don't have the savvy to do the stream to wav thang, nor do I think I can pull it off on a Mac. So. . . I avoid it.

Maybe they'll put it out. I'm pledged to give they guys my dollars eventually on any of the stuff they put out over the years I dig.

[mr jazz]

gosh. . . I've just been avoiding the archive. I hate to stream things and not have them when I want them on cd, and I don't have the savvy to do the stream to wav thang, nor do I think I can pull it off on a Mac. So. . . I avoid it.

Maybe they'll put it out. I'm pledged to give they guys my dollars eventually on any of the stuff they put out over the years I dig.

8-6-71 is one of the great live recordings of the Dead easily available (on archive). Downloading and converting to wav files is quite easy and there are tutorials available. you need to grab a few free tools. check etree.org for instructions. there are lots of free dead sbs for download at various internet sites.

[jazzbo]

gosh. . . I've just been avoiding the archive. I hate to stream things and not have them when I want them on cd, and I don't have the savvy to do the stream to wav thang, nor do I think I can pull it off on a Mac. So. . . I avoid it.

Maybe they'll put it out. I'm pledged to give they guys my dollars eventually on any of the stuff they put out over the years I dig.

8-6-71 is one of the great live recordings of the Dead easily available (on archive). Downloading and converting to wav files is quite easy and there are tutorials available. you need to grab a few free tools. check etree.org for instructions. there are lots of free dead sbs for download at various internet sites.

I know it's "easy" for a lot of people. But I just don't find this stuff "easy," tutorials or not, and I don't find that many of these things work well with Macs and burners controlled by iTunes even if they say they do!

So I'm saving myself frustration and staying away from it . . . . I know I'm missing a lot, really I do. I'm buying the official products though.

Edited June 30, 2006 by jazzbo

[jazzbo]

On another subject, anyone else checked out the Joe Gallant stuff?

I find I really like the "Terrapin" studio effort and the live at the Knitting Factory "Blues for Allah."

Edited June 27, 2006 by jazzbo

[jazzbo]

Got the Joe Gallant "Music of the Grateful Dead and Beyond, Live Volume 2" on Relix cheap, and am digging it. So far "Terrapin" is my favorite of the three. Interesting stuff for Deadheads.

Right now am listneing to a highlight of the Download Series, "Black Peter," on Download Series Vol. 2, from Springer Inn, 1/18/70. This is a good show. . . this is a great version of this tune, the "mood" is perfect. Killer Pigpen in this volume too on "Big Boss Man," "Good Lovin'" and "Hard to Handle."

[jazzbo]

Now it's "Fallout from the Phil Zone." I am so glad I picked this up a few months ago. I don't know how I lived without this for so long.

That "Midnight Hour." Wow. I bet the whole show is killer. Maybe we'll get to hear it one day.

Long live Pigpen!

[WD45]

Now it's "Fallout from the Phil Zone." I am so glad I picked this up a few months ago. I don't know how I lived without this for so long.

That "Midnight Hour." Wow. I bet the whole show is killer. Maybe we'll get to hear it one day.

Long live Pigpen!

The Viola Lee smokes on there, too!

[jazzbo]

Damned straight it does! Made me order "Dick's Picks Vol. 26"!

[orchiddoctor]

Now it's "Fallout from the Phil Zone." I am so glad I picked this up a few months ago. I don't know how I lived without this for so long.

That "Midnight Hour." Wow. I bet the whole show is killer. Maybe we'll get to hear it one day.

Long live Pigpen!

That is all of that show (supposedly) that exists. The song has been booted for years. They played for a tiny crowd and figured they'd have fun, and fun they had.

I should probably check, but is that Viola Lee Blues from Chicago 1969? If so, it continued past the "end" with feedback over which Owsley played a tape of "What's Become of the Baby." This was the only time they did that. I can imagine the acid drenched crowd digging that--though I never did.

People pan the Phil Zone disc as being disjointed--they want whole shows, not just a sampler. But, as samplers go, it's pretty damn good.

[jazzbo]

Right, Viola Lee Blues is supposed to be from 4/26/69. . . it's not on the Dick's Picks of that show though. (Volume 26).

[Chalupa]

The show has been in circulation for a few years. I got my copy 4 or 5 years ago.

You can listen to 9.3.67 here....

http://www.archive.org/details/gd67-09-03....7272.sbeok.shnf

Now it's "Fallout from the Phil Zone." I am so glad I picked this up a few months ago. I don't know how I lived without this for so long.

That "Midnight Hour." Wow. I bet the whole show is killer. Maybe we'll get to hear it one day.

Long live Pigpen!

That is all of that show (supposedly) that exists. The song has been booted for years. They played for a tiny crowd and figured they'd have fun, and fun they had.

I should probably check, but is that Viola Lee Blues from Chicago 1969? If so, it continued past the "end" with feedback over which Owsley played a tape of "What's Become of the Baby." This was the only time they did that. I can imagine the acid drenched crowd digging that--though I never did.

People pan the Phil Zone disc as being disjointed--they want whole shows, not just a sampler. But, as samplers go, it's pretty damn good.

[jazzbo]

Thanks for the link. Wish I'd downloaded that when I had the chance!

[jazzbo]

Just realized that supposedly the Viola Lee Blues from this show is a bonus cut on the remastered cd of the first album. That's good news!

[Chalupa]

Article on Vince Welnick's demise....

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...DDG12JM4F61.DTL

[orchiddoctor]

The sad thing about all of this is that we assume (or do we?) that musicians are to be held to a higher standard or, barring that, that their personal lives are supposed to be tragic. Who knows what the truth is?

No doubt Vince had a heavy load to carry. Bipolar, despite Dr. Tom Cruise's lecture to the contrary, is a real disease, as real as cancer or diabetes. It is a genetic issue; it is inherited. It and depression affect more people than any of us may realize, and musicians are not immune. In fact, "artists" tend to have a higher percent of chemically unbalanced members than the populace at large.

And who knows about the facts of Vince? Bobby hired him to play in Ratdog; Vince attempted to eat some valium (85 tablets: sorry, you need a lot more plus alcohol to trigger the reaction; don't ask how I know). It was a cry for help. You don't do a show and tell before swallowing the buggers unless you are seeking attention for your illness. The worst thing Bobby could have done was to keep Vince on the tour with all the rigours and stress. Sending him to the nearest hospital was the right thing to do. Bringing him back when he was in bad emotional shape would be disasterous all around.

Did the Dead reject him, or did they care about him enough to keep him away from the touring life? Who are we to say what the motivation was. As much as many folks feel he was shunned, and he may have been to some extent (who really knows much about this disease?), who would want to be responsible for triggering another, perhaps successful attempt? Being on the bus, figuratively and literally, requires some serious fortitude. It got Keith (another manic depressive who could not accept the power of his gift), Brent (yeah, him too), and finally Vince.

It wasn't the airplane; it was beauty killed the beast.