The Grateful Dead Dark Star

[jazzbo]

Althea! Don't know why but I love that song. . . must be the sort of slipperiness to it. Like the Weir items on that album too (Feel Like A Stranger, Lost Sailor, Saint Of Circumstance). . . and that about closes the studio efforts for ME. . . hardly listen to/have listened to the others after that.

[Guest]

I forgot Althea--shame on me! Hunter's last literary foray with it's refences to Hamlet and to Greek mythology. And such a sweet tune. I sort of like Lost Sailor----Saint of Circumstance, but Barlow ain't no Hunter("I'm gonna go for it, it's for sure"). Okay, someone will nail me for that comment, I'm quite sure. Go ahead, I dare you!

But Workingman's? American Beauty? Genuine American classics. I used to slip a few of Hunter's lyrics (and Dylan's) in when I taught Freshman Lit. They got a better reaction than, say, Shakespeare. I also head students who were deadheads and who brought me in tapes. Those were the days.

[Tony Pusey]

I replayed American Beauty/Reality again last night for the first time in a long while, a pretty near perfect ailbum, I still remember buying the subsequent albums and my heart sinking each time I realised that the best was behind them, a genuine case of diminishing returns. And of course they still had a lot of good music in front of them, but they would never aspire to such heights again.

[Guest]

Then again, they stopped enjoying the studio after a while. After American Beauty, they released 2 live sets.

Can you imagine what might have happened if they had gone back into Wally Heider's with the songs Garcia put on his first solo LP and the Weir songs from Ace?--Wait! Ace isn't half bad. Playing in the Band is incredible (outtakes?). And I do think that Wake of the Flood rivals American Beauty in places. It still has that country tinge--maybe a bit more etherial, and some of the songs are lyrically stronger. Remember that by 1973, Keith's "jazzy" influence was allowing the band to check out some new spaces.

[Tony Pusey]

I take your point Orchid but I would like to hear out takes from Rolling Thunder! In my opinion perhaps the SF bay scenes last real gasp. Not to mention the unreleased album that Barry Melton was working on at the barn at the same time!

[Guest]

Yep, back when making music in the studio (or at Mickey's) was an adventure. "Record more than you erase."

Hey: you guys have a great Xmas!

[Tony Pusey]

Since I am out of the country for the next week or so ,lets make it Happy New Ear!

Till later.

( I just finshed playing Rockin the Rhine from 72, whew!)

[gdogus]

Then again, they stopped enjoying the studio after a while. After American Beauty, they released 2 live sets.

Can you imagine what might have happened if they had gone back into Wally Heider's with the songs Garcia put on his first solo LP and the Weir songs from Ace?

I've always lamented the "lost" Grateful Dead studio album that might have resulted in 1972 - following Skullfuck - with a judicious selection of tunes from Garcia's first solo album , Weir's Ace, and the new tunes they presented on Europe '72. Anyone wanna try a speculative game, naming the tunes and running order that might have resulted? Edited December 24, 2005 by gdogus

[jazzbo]

I'll take Ace just the way it is. Lovely album, nicely remastered new cd too. (Okay, I'd definitely substitute something for the cowboy tearjerker tune, but that's all I'd do).

That album has a great cover too. . . (though it's impact is dimished on cd).

Okay, now back to your regualrly scheduled non-Weir discussions.

[jazzbo]

By the way I recently read an interview with Garcia where he talks of Freddie King as a major influence.

I hadn't really heard that til I read it. . . interesting.

[Guest]

Then again, they stopped enjoying the studio after a while. After American Beauty, they released 2 live sets.

Can you imagine what might have happened if they had gone back into Wally Heider's with the songs Garcia put on his first solo LP and the Weir songs from Ace?

I've always lamented the "lost" Grateful Dead studio album that might have resulted in 1972 - following Skullfuck - with a judicious selection of tunes from Garcia's first solo album , Weir's Ace, and the new tunes they presented on Europe '72. Anyone wanna try a speculative game, naming the tunes and running order that might have resulted?

I'll say this much: it would have made a great transitional album between the acoustic twins and Wake of the Flood. I'd include Loser, Sugaree, and from Garica's LP, Greatest Story, Cassidy, Looks Like Rain, Black Throated Wind from Ace, and Jack Straw, Brown-Eyed Women, and Tennessee Jed from Europe '72. But I'd add a slice or two of the Pig: Empty Pages or The Stranger. That would make ten songs, a nice L.P. I'd open with Loser and end with Cassidy. Or, they could easily have put out another "twin" set--a Garcia--Ace L.P. and a Europe '72 derived L.P. With, yes, a Pig tune one each.

Now, if I got to run the whole world . . . . . . . . . . .

[gdogus]

I'd go with a double studio LP...

SIDE A

1. Jack Straw (Europe '72)

2. Sugaree (Garcia)

3. Brown-Eyed Women (Europe '72)

4. Playin in the Band (Ace)

SIDE B

5. Greatest Story Ever Told (Ace)

6. Ramble On Rose (Europe '72)

7. Mr. Charlie (Europe '72)

8. Looks Like Rain (Ace)

9. Tennessee Jed (Europe '72)

SIDE C

10. One More Saturday Night (Ace)

11. He's Gone (Europe '72)

12. Black-Throated Wind (Ace)

13. Loser (Garcia)

SIDE D

14. Deal (Garcia)

15. Mexicali Blues (Ace)

16. Bird Song (Garcia)

17. The Wheel (Garcia)

18. Cassidy (Ace)

Edited December 25, 2005 by gdogus

[Guest]

I'd go with a double studio LP...

SIDE A

1. Jack Straw (Europe '72)

2. Sugaree (Garcia)

3. Brown-Eyed Women (Europe '72)

4. Playin in the Band (Ace)

SIDE B

5. Greatest Story Ever Told (Ace)

6. Ramble On Rose (Europe '72)

7. Mr. Charlie (Europe '72)

8. Looks Like Rain (Ace)

9. Tennessee Jed (Europe '72)

SIDE C

10. One More Saturday Night (Ace)

11. He's Gone (Europe '72)

12. Black-Throated Wind (Ace)

13. Loser (Garcia)

SIDE D

14. Deal (Garcia)

15. Mexicali Blues (Ace)

16. Bird Song (Garcia)

17. The Wheel (Garcia)

18. Cassidy (Ace)

[Chalupa]

Someone sent this to me...

‘Twas the week 'fore Thanksgiving and all through the land,

People downloaded shows from their favorite band.

The files they flew off Archive.org with speed,

They had every Dead soundboard an addict could need.

From Cornell '77 to a jam with Grace Slick,

Don't forget Fillmore East '70-- that shit was sick.

All was happy for Deadheads in cyberspace,

Who would never again listen to garbage like Steal Your Face.

But all was not right in the Land of the Dead,

The revenue had turned from black into red.

The Dick's Picks they sat and collected dust,

Especially 35-- Man, that was a bust!

Just then the mean old grinch, who was named Bob Weir

Said, "Hey, what the fuck is happening here?"

"They're stealing my money-- my kid's college fund.

I've been checking my portfolio and feeling quite stunned.

"This cannot go on. The downloading must desist.

If I lose another cent, I'm gonna be pissed."

And with a wave of his hand (and his lawyer's phone call),

The free downloads stopped-- once and for all.

The Archive lost soundboards and audience tapes too,

And Deadheads seemed to think this decision, it blew.

The Deadheads were angry-- they made quite a fuss:

"Why would the Dead pull this shit over on us?"

"Let's boycott every CD and t-shirt and ticket.

If Bob Weir needs money, we'll tell him to stick it."

But then from the East there arose such a clatter,

Phil Lesh had arrived to see what was the matter.

Outraged he was by the Dead’s strange decision.

The policy, he said, needed revision.

In a wave of his hand, he released a free board tape

With a long ‘Caution’ jam that left many mouths agape.

And for Mickey Hart? You know he couldn’t be left out of the flap.

“Remember me,” he cried. “I do the ‘Fire on the Mountain’ rap.”

“I agree with Phil,” he said. “Although it makes me shiver

Because I can’t stand to be near that jerk and his liver.”

The foundation was shaking; they called Dennis McNally.

He traveled in quickly to stop the protest rally.

“On Pigpen, on T.C., on Godchaux, on Mydland,

On Hornsby, on Welnick—Wait. Who’s Welnick? He ain’t in the band,”

“The AUD tapes are back,” McNally had cried.

“There was a misunderstanding.” But it smelled like he lied.

The AUDs were returned to Archive.org,

But soundboards had been assimilated into the Borg.

“Bullshit!” Deadheads yelled. “Music should be free.”

“Tough shit,” Bob Weir said. “It’ll cost you a fee.”

“The boycott is on,” they said. “We’ll kick your butts.”

“Fine,” Weir retorted. “Suck on my nuts.”

When hopes were fading and the end was neigh,

Someone had pointed up into the sky.

Gently floating, upon a white cloud he sat.

A bushy beard spoke from a big mound of fat.

“Why the hell are you all acting so crazy?

This looks like a scene from a film by Scorsese.”

“Everyone here needs to shut up and chill.

And what happened to Weir? He looks over the hill!”

“Jerry,” Weir cried. “It’s so great to see ya.

But hey man. We’re broke-- just like North Korea.”

“I have an idea,” Jerry said. “From the days of old.

Go sell my toilet. People thought I shit gold.”

Then he picked up a guitar and played for the masses.

And smiles were found amongst those shaking asses.

The solo, it finished with ooohs and with ahhhs.

Then he concluded by saying, “Where’s my Häagen-Dazs?”

[Guest]

Where's Phil's board tape?

[Spontooneous]

Phil's tape is at www.phillesh.net. Looks like there's three of them.

After a few days of listening to '72 and '73 shows, I'm just now hearing the vaunted Cornell '77 for the first time. I'm having the same "Is that all?" reaction that I had to Veneta. And why does Mickey Hart have to make "One More Saturday Night" stop swinging?

Edited December 26, 2005 by Spontooneous

[Guest]

Phil's tape is at www.phillesh.net. Looks like there's three of them.

After a few days of listening to '72 and '73 shows, I'm just now hearing the vaunted Cornell '77 for the first time. I'm having the same "Is that all?" reaction that I had to Veneta. And why does Mickey Hart have to make "One More Saturday Night" stop swinging?

Yeah, I don't think Cornell is any "better" than many of the other late 76--early 78 stuff. It's vaunted due in part to the set list and the fact that they playing is consistently good throughout. But nothing mind boggling. The 1977 Dick's Picks seem preferable to me. And Mickey's return did not add to the band's playing; gone was the four handed interplay; Kreutzman's dynamics were weakened by the more simplistic patterns that Hart forced on him. Still--great stuff overall.

[Sundog]

From the Gruhn Guitar website....

EH5924 Gibson Byrdland, 1966, EXC, pointed Florentine cutaway, sunburst finish, set up with Gretsch Bigsby, formerly owned by Jerry Garcia, provided with full documentation including a letter from Jerry, OHC......$100000

P.S. Can't link directly to the site. If you want to see this go to www.gruhn.com and click on "inventory" followed by "hollowbody electric"

[Chalupa]

Phil's tape is at www.phillesh.net. Looks like there's three of them.

After a few days of listening to '72 and '73 shows, I'm just now hearing the vaunted Cornell '77 for the first time. I'm having the same "Is that all?" reaction that I had to Veneta. And why does Mickey Hart have to make "One More Saturday Night" stop swinging?

Yeah, I don't think Cornell is any "better" than many of the other late 76--early 78 stuff. It's vaunted due in part to the set list and the fact that they playing is consistently good throughout. But nothing mind boggling. The 1977 Dick's Picks seem preferable to me. And Mickey's return did not add to the band's playing; gone was the four handed interplay; Kreutzman's dynamics were weakened by the more simplistic patterns that Hart forced on him. Still--great stuff overall.

I've always thought Veneta and Cornell were overrated and said so earlier in this folder. I would not place either show in my top 100 all time concerts. I think Cornell's mystique stems in part to its being one of the first Betty Boards that was available in pristine quality at a time when pristine quality soundboards were hard to find. Also, the Scarlet>Fire is an all timer and the Dancin' is letter perfect. However... I think the band loses its way during the St.Stephen>NFA>St. Stephen portion of the second set- pretty sloppy. There are better shows from this month(5/19 & 5/21) and this year(3/18, 10/29 and 11/4) - IMHO!

[AmirBagachelles]

The cornell show earned its props from a decent audience tape; betty boards came much later. The show is a smoker, try that first set again if you don't think so. (Please do that today, tell us what you heard....) And a second set with an epic scarlet fire and a blow out dew, how bad do they have to play in between for it not to rank way up there? Better '76-'80s Dicks Picks than 5-8-77? I haven't heard one.

As I think back on those days, I would say the Binghamton, Buffalo, Cornell and Springfield shows from the spring, and the Rochester and Colgate shows from the fall were "legendary" well before the soundboards circulated. Now, these were mostly upstate nY shows where loud, outspoken DHs like myself roamed the earth, but now that everybody can hear these shows in great detail, they stand up pretty well! We have to go back and listen to the first sets, Binghamton and Buffalo were especially good along with Cornell I think.

Edited December 27, 2005 by AmirBagachelles

[Guest]

The cornell show earned its props from a decent audience tape; betty boards came much later. The show is a smoker, try that first set again if you don't think so. (Please do that today, tell us what you heard....) And a second set with an epic scarlet fire and a blow out dew, how bad do they have to play in between for it not to rank way up there? Better '76-'80s Dicks Picks than 5-8-77? I haven't heard one.

As I think back on those days, I would say the Binghamton, Buffalo, Cornell and Springfield shows from the spring, and the Rochester and Colgate shows from the fall were "legendary" well before the soundboards circulated. Now, these were mostly upstate nY shows where loud, outspoken DHs like myself roamed the earth, but now that everybody can hear these shows in great detail, they stand up pretty well! We have to go back and listen to the first sets, Binghamton and Buffalo were especially good along with Cornell I think.

Of course it's all just opinion. I've had the Betty Board of Cornell for years, and I do love the concert--wish I'd been there in the snow. It's just hard to pick the all time best when you like a particular period--I'm biased on that account. And 1977 has such an embarassment of riches that it's hard to say that one concert looms heavily over all the others. I agree that the upstate swing does stand as a peak series of gigs. Buffalo gets lost in the shadow of Cornell. That's why I don't laud the D.P.'s as "better," just as tasty, and I'm glad they were released as crispy D.P.s. But, if I were on a desert island with just ten Dead tapes, I might choose Cornell as an excellent example of the mellow mid 70's dead. I think that period showcases the best of the post retirement years. Then again, there's Feb 14 1969, Feb 28, 1969, Feb 13-14 1970, the Fillmore run of '71, and the Academy of Music run plus Europe '72 to consider if I were marooned--hopefully with a lot of batteries.

I am streaming it right now and I certainly can't say anything bad about set one. Not that I would want to.

[Guest]

From the Gruhn Guitar website....

EH5924 Gibson Byrdland, 1966, EXC, pointed Florentine cutaway, sunburst finish, set up with Gretsch Bigsby, formerly owned by Jerry Garcia, provided with full documentation including a letter from Jerry, OHC......$100000

P.S. Can't link directly to the site. If you want to see this go to www.gruhn.com and click on "inventory" followed by "hollowbody electric"

I just bought Jerry's guitar after winning the ebay auction for the toilet seat. Now I can strum along while sitting. Pictures to follow.

[Sundog]

From the Gruhn Guitar website....

EH5924 Gibson Byrdland, 1966, EXC, pointed Florentine cutaway, sunburst finish, set up with Gretsch Bigsby, formerly owned by Jerry Garcia, provided with full documentation including a letter from Jerry, OHC......$100000

P.S. Can't link directly to the site. If you want to see this go to www.gruhn.com and click on "inventory" followed by "hollowbody electric"

I just bought Jerry's guitar after winning the ebay auction for the toilet seat. Now I can strum along while sitting. Pictures to follow.

It's official, Jerry just rolled over in his grave.

[jazzbo]

I don't know. . . rolling over? Probably too much effort!

[Sundog]