Guest Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 Indeed: You give a cat a bowl of milk every day for 40 years, and it will get downright mean if you suddenly stop. In other words, the howlers are just a bunch of pussies. Just an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalupa Posted November 30, 2005 Report Share Posted November 30, 2005 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- November 30, 2005 Deadheads Outraged Over Web Crackdown By JEFF LEEDS The Grateful Dead, the business, is testing the loyalty of longtime fans of the Grateful Dead, the pioneering jam band, by cracking down on an independently run Web site that made thousands of recordings of its live concerts available for free downloading. The band recently asked the operators of the popular Live Music Archive (archive.org) to make the concert recordings - a staple of Grateful Dead fandom - available only for listening online, the band's spokesman, Dennis McNally, said yesterday. In the meantime, the files that previously had been freely downloaded were taken down from the site last week. Dissent has been building rapidly, however, as the band's fans - known as Deadheads - have discovered the recordings are, at least for the time being, not available. Already, fans have started an online petition, at www.petitiononline.com/gdm/petition.html, threatening to boycott the band's recordings and merchandise if the decision is not reversed. In particular, fans have expressed outrage that the shift covers not only the semiofficial "soundboard" recordings made by technicians at the band's performances, but also recordings made by audience members. To the fans, the move signals a profound philosophical shift for a band that had been famous for encouraging fans to record and trade live-concert tapes. The band even cordoned off a special area at its shows, usually near the sound board, for "tapers" - a practice now followed by many younger jam bands. But more broadly, it suggests that a touchstone of baby-boomer counterculture - the recording made by and shared, sometimes via mail, among hard-core fans - may be subverted in a digital era when music files can be instantly transmitted worldwide. The move comes as the group, which disbanded after the 1995 death of its leader and ringmaster, Jerry Garcia, has begun selling downloads of its live concerts through its own official Web site. The band (whose surviving members - the guitarist Bob Weir, the bassist Phil Lesh and the drummers Mickey Hart and Bill Kreutzmann - have since played together under the more compact name the Dead) sells album-length recordings of the shows at prices that can run from about $8 to roughly $16 a copy. Unlike the digital files sold at popular music services like Apple Computer's iTunes or Real Networks' Rhapsody, the band sells its music as files that can be copied and transferred without restriction. The independently operated Live Music Archive evidently posed unwelcome competition. "These folks assembled a Deadhead's dream collection and made it available," Mr. McNally said. "When we discovered it, we decided to take a wait-and-see approach. Eventually, it was the band's conclusion, after a long discussion with them, to request that they change their policies" and make the live recordings available only as streams. The contretemps makes clear that the band's decades-long support of fan recordings and trading did not anticipate the popularity of music online. "One-to-one community building, tape trading, is something we've always been about," Mr. McNally said. "The idea of a massive one-stop Web site that does not build community is not what we had in mind. Our conclusion has been that it doesn't represent Grateful Dead values." Most fans, he continued, "understand they were being granted an extraordinary privilege, and they responded by taking it very seriously" by respecting the band's wishes not to sell their live recordings. "This is not the same situation," he added. David Gans, who is the host of a syndicated radio program, "The Grateful Dead Hour," said in an interview yesterday that the battle is rooted in the band's "historically lackadaisical attitude toward their intellectual property." He added: "When they were making $50 million a year on the road, there wasn't a lot of pressure to monetize their archives." Now, however, it may be difficult to put the genie back in the bottle. While the move to revise the Live Music Archive may deal a blow to what many fans considered an organized library of material, "the idea that they could stop people from trading these files is absurd," Mr. Gans said, adding: "It's no longer under anyone's control. People have gigabytes of this stuff." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 30, 2005 Report Share Posted November 30, 2005 Another country heard from: John Perry Barlow, EFF co-founder and former Grateful Dead lyricist, tells Boing Boing: "You have no idea how sad I am about this. I fought it hammer and tong, but the drummers had inoperable bricks in their head about it. What's worse is that they now want to remove all Dead music from the Web. They might as easily put a teaspoon of food coloring in a swimming pool and then tell the pool owner to get it back to them. It's like finding out that your brother is a child molester. And then, worse, having everyone then assume that you're a child molester too. I've been called a hypocrite in three languages already. How magnificently counter-productive of them. It's as if the goose who laid the golden egg had decided to commit suicide so that he could get more golden eggs. This is just the beginning of the backlash, I promise you. This is worse than the RIAA suing their customers." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalupa Posted November 30, 2005 Report Share Posted November 30, 2005 Phil(www.phillesh.net) weighs in: It was brought to my attention that all of the Grateful Dead shows were taken down from Archive.org right before Thanksgiving. I was not part of this decision making process and was not notified that the shows were to be pulled. I do feel that the music is the Grateful Dead's legacy and I hope that one way or another all of it is available for those who want it . I have enjoyed using Archive.org and found it invaluable during the writing of my book. I found myself being pulled back in time listening to old Grateful Dead shows while giggling with glee or feeling that ache in my heart listening to Jerry's poetic guitar and sweet voice. We are musicians not businessmen and have made good and bad decisions on our journey. We do love and care about our community as you helped us make the music. We could not have made this kind of music without you as you allowed us to play "without a net". Your love, trust and patience made it possible for us to try again the next show when we couldn't get that magic carpet off the ground. Your concerns have been heard and I am sure are being respectfully addressed. - Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted November 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2005 Well. . . that was a nice note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted November 30, 2005 Report Share Posted November 30, 2005 was mickey hart behind this? guy shouldn't even have been in the freaking band... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 30, 2005 Report Share Posted November 30, 2005 It's very interesting that Phil wasn't in on the decision. Several years back, when several of the Dead's surviving members wanted to digitalize the Vault and have someone like Apple or Microsoft host it online, Phil put his foot down, creating a schizm within the band. Now they have apparantly gone behind his back to do it. Oh well, no more Bobby at Phil concerts. Whatta shame. It was bound to happen; the Vault is worth too much to give it all away. But who's to blame? Them or us? The comments seem to indicate that while the boys were all for private trading, the appearance of 3,000 mostly soundboard concerts on one site was a bit too much. They aren't busting the little sites, just the motherload. And btw, GD live actually has some of those 10 cd 1969 Fillmore shows up!! It's as if someone said you could have a few m&ms and you took the whole bag and ran off with it. And then told everyone it was yours by rights. Sure wish we had a week's warning though!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalupa Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 Check this out.... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051129/ap_en_..._garcia_auction Jerry Garcia's Appliances to Be Auctioned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny weir Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 Check this out.... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051129/ap_en_..._garcia_auction Jerry Garcia's Appliances to Be Auctioned Looking at that stuff makes me think that as an interior decorator, Garcia was a wonderful guitarist and singer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spontooneous Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 I am sooooo totally bidding on Jerry Berry's toilet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 I am sooooo totally bidding on Jerry Berry's toilet... Do I hear twenty five cents? Thirty? Going once . . . . If you win, can I pee in it--pleeeeeease? "All a friend can say is 'ain't it a shame?'" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalupa Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 December 4, 1999 To The Deadheads From the Board of Directors of Grateful Dead Productions, Inc. Re: Ugly Rumors There is a great deal of misinformation circulating on the Web about our business and intentions. It’s time to set the record straight. Lots of tongues have been wagging. Don’t believe them. The Vault is not for sale. Not now. Not ever. There has never been - nor will there ever be - any discussion of selling our Vault, our music, our name, our legacy. Not to Microsoft. Not to anyone. The Vault is part of our heart and soul . . . and yours. We’re taking steps to preserve it for all time. The music industry is changing. No matter what people are saying on the Web, we can’t hold back and we can’t stand still. We have an opportunity to take the lead as music and the Internet converge. Opportunities like this come along very, very rarely. We have enjoyed a special relationship with all of you for the past thirty-five years. We want you to be involved in our activities as we move forward. We plan to keep you fully informed about our plans as they evolve. Stay tuned, Bob Weir Bill Kreutzmann Mickey Hart http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Music/12/0...d.ap/index.html Fan fury prompts Dead to reconsider Band had halted free downloading, now will allow it again SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- What a short, strange trip it was. After the Grateful Dead angered some of its biggest fans by asking a nonprofit Web site to halt the free downloading of its concert recordings, the jam band changed its mind Wednesday. Internet Archive, a site that catalogues content on Web sites, reposted recordings of Grateful Dead concerts for download after the surviving members of the band decided to make them available again. Band spokesman Dennis McNally said the group was swayed by the backlash from fans, who for decades have freely taped and traded the band's live performances. "The Grateful Dead remains as it always has -- in favor of tape trading," McNally said. He said the band consented to making audience recordings available for download again, although live recordings made directly from concert soundboards, which are the legal property of the Grateful Dead, should only be made available for listening from now on. The soundboard recordings are "very much part of their legacy, and their rights need to be protected," McNally said. Representatives for the band earlier this month had directed the Internet Archive to stop making recordings of the group's concerts available for download. But fans quickly initiated an online petition that argued the band shouldn't change the rules midway through the game. "The internet archive has been a resource that is important to all of us," states the petition, which also threatened a boycott of Grateful Dead recordings and merchandise. "Between the music, and interviews in the archive we are able to experience the Grateful Dead fully." The Grateful Dead disbanded in 1995 following the death of guitarist and lead singer Jerry Garcia. The group once set concert attendance records and generated millions of dollars in revenue from extensive tours. Members of the group have played in various guises since. With concert tickets now removed as a source of revenue, sales of the band's music and other merchandise have become increasingly important in an age where music is distributed digitally instead of on CDs, vinyl and cassette tapes. And the arrival of Apple Computer Inc.'s iTunes online music store, and other similar sites, means free downloads can be seen as competition, said Marc Schiller, chief executive of Electricartists, which helps musicians market themselves online. The band sells music on iTunes and exclusive shows through its Web site. "When the music was given away for free to trade, the band was making so much money touring that the music was not as valuable to them," Schiller said. "Apple iTunes has made digital downloads a business." The Grateful Dead's freeform improvisational style led to vastly different sounding songs, from year to year or even night to night. A song that lasted four minutes during one performance could be stretched to 20 minutes during a different show. Fans eager to explore the varying versions frequently built large collections of shows spanning the band's 30-year career. The band even encouraged recording of their live shows, establishing a cordoned section for fans to set up taping equipment. Representatives from the Internet Archive didn't immediately return a telephone call seeking comment Wednesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 Awww, ain't they sweet? Everyone is of course saying it was all a big misunderstanding. But this has got to be a great compromise. Now, who's got the software for turning streams into MP3s? C'mon, you know who you are. Meanwhile, there should be a new download next Tuesday. My guess is it will be from the 77 tour--something juicy. My bet is that I'm probably wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vajerzy Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 Chalupa's post from the BODs of GDP has a noticable absence of one Phil Lesh.... Have you checked out their web site?? Major overhaul in the music store.....I visit it often in the unlikely event that a few 10 CD sets will magically appear.....I like the new look. I have a better chance at the VA lottery. The search continues..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Phil has always been at loggerheads with the other three over the vault. It's got to be a hard thing to deal with. On the one hand, they long ago let the beast out of its cage. On the other, it is their property--legally. Here's a group of guys who began on nothing but faith. They made nothing for years and years. What they did make, they spent in the studio, experimenting, getting into massive debt to Warner Brothers. LIVE/DEAD waws recorded to help reduce that debt. And then Lenny Hart rips them off. Then Ron Rakow GD/Round records). Then the self consuming wall of sound. Those boys did it all for the love of their music. Sure, they became fat cats in the eighties and nineties--but why shouldn't they after all those years? Somehow, all those whiners on Etree's forum think that they are "entitled" to soundboard tapes. But when that all gets out of control--don't the owners have a right to say, "enough?" I remember sitting in various living rooms smoking weed and slowly dubbing tapes until dawn--any tapes, audience, hissy soundboards, all of it welcomed, all of it appreciated. But I can't really blame the three amigos (sans Lesh) for feeling that friendly trading got completely out of control. Etree had come close to what the surviving members would like to see in one form or another--the availibility of digital transfer of their archives--only for free. One even wonders how all these amazing soundboards got out. The compromise they came up with is a fair one and ought to satisfy those who really want to LISTEN to rather than simply own copies of the music. And the time honored tradition of audience recordings remains unscathed. As to the boards, how many of you would prefer cleaned up cds direct from the master reels over the circulating versions? I would, for one. The 1971 Fillmore East soundboards have been around since 1972! But the cd set is so much better sounding than those original dubbed tapes. And of course, the Fillmore West box set--I tossed my old copies (downloaded from Etree) out the window the day my box arrived. I only hope that the combination of the ongoing tempest and the quick sellout of the Fillmore sets will prompt the band to get more great shows cleaned up and made available any way they see fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vajerzy Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Thanks Orchiddoctor- I recently finished reading Phil's book "Searching For The Sound" and I was unprepared for the depth and scope of the man.......I always considered him a background type with Pig, Bob and Jerry being the trail blazers for the music- but I underestimated Phil as a leader. With no prior expectations of what and who he is with respect to the Dead, I was quite surprised. I enjoyed reading it. I'm all for buying commercial releases that the Dead put out. I was late pulling the trigger on the 10 CD set (because I was saving money for it) but I endorse and support the commercial releases. It's their music- and they can do what they wish. I feel fortunate that I have some soundboard downloads (a few at most) and I appreciate them. Funny thing- one of my favorite bands is Little Feat- they allow patching into their soundboards at shows and so many shows are traded around, plus they're becoming "jammy" in their old age- and no two shows are alike.....all I attribute to the Dead and I'm glad, since I enjoy their shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalupa Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Was it just a publicity stunt to drive traffic to their upgraded website??? http://www.dead.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Was it just a publicity stunt to drive traffic to their upgraded website??? http://www.dead.net Or further proof that musicians make lousy businessmen? I'd really rather not hear my accountant play music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmirBagachelles Posted December 3, 2005 Report Share Posted December 3, 2005 A big plug for Phil: As I sat listening to a pounding Pride Of Cucamonga in the New Haven Coliseum a few years ago, my friends and I achieved a new and different music joy, while flashing the good old times. May God bless Phil Lesh, the Deadheads great best friend all these years. Truly da bomb for all time. I never really had closure with the end of Dead devotion and tourhounding after Jerry died, got busy with parenting at just that time, whew. When Phil's band started coming around, I was so blown away, and remain so. No need to pine for the GD with Phil Lesh and Friends on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vajerzy Posted December 3, 2005 Report Share Posted December 3, 2005 I called the Dead yesterday to see if any 10 CD sets came back- none have been returned- in fact they're having a problem with people not receiving their sets- seems a number of them have *disappeared*......whether people ripped off the packages during transit or buyers are saying they didn't receive it when in fact they did..... A big headache for the Dead. Glad you all received yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 3, 2005 Report Share Posted December 3, 2005 Phil is the only member of the Dead to spend serious time studying music on a deep level. He wrote scores--played the trumpet. His tunes are a bit more complex than average. "Unbroken Chain" is at complex as any dead tune, with all of it's fast paced changes. Some of his later tunes were almost too complex to be played by the dead ("Wave to the Wind" was abandoned because they never could get the changes down to Phil's satisfaction.) "Pride of Cucumonga" is interesting in that it moves from country (pedal steel) to blues (listen to the chord quote from "Kingbee" in the middle). Just different. And then there's "Box of Rain" . . . . I don't think I'd run out to see Ratdog--but the Phil and Friends groups? You bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Pusey Posted December 3, 2005 Report Share Posted December 3, 2005 Not yet out of the woods Vajerzy, still waiting here in Sweden, normal delivery 2 to 4 weeks, shipped on 19 November, sleepless nights ahead! How about you Kenny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny weir Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 How about you Kenny? Nope. Not getting nervous yet. And the Kenton/Holman/Russo box is sounding just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quincy Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 The following is from 1 post on rec.music.gdead that might be of interest. The title of the post is "So what about Download Series vol 8?" From "strider," Dec. 6 2005. "Dave Lemieux said on a radio show sunday night that there will be two downloads this month (one from 1970 - some st stephen - nfa - stephen - 10/5?) - another trucking buffalo dvd next year - dp next march - they aren't sure which one. Individual shows from the fillmore will be available for download. They WILL be releasing runs in the future. The reason for only 10,000 was based upon the sales of DPs (like dp 26) from that era." Regarding Download Vol 8 I have to tip my hat. It's 12/10/73 from Charlotte. All that circulates is 1/2 of the last song & the encore. And in December '73 the boys could do no wrong. What a thing to dangle in front of the hardcore fans with the boycott and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quincy Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 Below is a link that will take you to a direct download of Bob Weir commenting (or trying to ) about the archive.org controversy. It's kind of a tough listen as he stammers his way through, but I love the voice he uses when criticizing the "information wants to be free" crowd. Bob on archive.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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