The Grateful Dead Dark Star

[Guest]

I'm laughing still!

Fine. You just wait until they kick in YOUR front door and carry off YOUR dogs.

You'll see.

And, yes, Bobby was secretly "Mr. Big."

[jazzbo]

No dogs here. I dare them to find my cat. Plenty of times I CAN'T.

Ah. .. still laughing. . . because I need to!

[WD45]

I imagine that much of their bandwidth was GD show downloads. There were WAY more Dead shows than anything else, and by far the most appealing band on that list.

Glad I got some gems while I was able.

[DatDere]

I never downloaded anything from Archive, always listened to SBDs in streaming audio. Had I known before... I don't even have a copy of that famous 5/8/77 fake show.

[gdogus]

I may as well note that the last show I downloaded from the archive, two weeks ago, was 1973/03/24, Philadelphia. Very fine indeed...And there will be no more.

Bad for me, but I can't blame the Dead. A quick perusal of the discussion boards at the archive reveals a depressing number of temper tantrums, flying accusations, primal screams, calls for boycott, cries of abandonment and betrayal, vicious damnations, vows of vengence...you'd think you were in Bedlam, or one of Dante's lower circles.

Disappointing, sure. But really, does the situation warrant comments like this?

Of all the fan bases NOT to t-off, I would think the experts in copying and trading would be the folks you want to handle with some care. Nothing could sink their endeavor faster than a general agreement among those concerned that EVERYTHING the Dead have ever put out is now fair game (copyright laws ignored). If they want to be treated like every other band, then they will get treated like every other band.

Edited November 26, 2005 by gdogus

[Guest]

I never downloaded anything from Archive, always listened to SBDs in streaming audio. Had I known before... I don't even have a copy of that famous 5/8/77 fake show.

Blank cds with that alleged show on them are readily available. Besides, it'll probably be Dick's Picks 00.

If you go onto Furthernet and punch in concerts before 1977-05-09 you should be able to download it in either MP3 or SHN. format. It doesn't make a difference since it doesn't exist anyway. Still the best damn fake show you never heard--next to their famous performance at Altamont--the one where Bobby punched out a whole bunch of Hell's Angels.

Must be LSD in the water supply again.

[gdogus]

Now Playing...

The Grateful Dead Movie Soundtrack

[Tony Pusey]

Yes Orchid, the Angels had more on their hands than they could handle, what with Bobby and Marty!

Also , speaking of fakes and Altamont, it was there that members of Moby Grape chanced apon a fake Grape playing, not on the main stage tho, part of their longstanding dispute with Mathew Katz.

[Guest]

All of those bands were fakes. The real Marty Balin was killed in a car crash in 1967, along with Paul McCartney of the Beatles. Hence at the end of "Little Piggies" on the double White Album (which, if held up properly to the light has a 3D photo of Paul, George, and Ringo sexually assaulting Yoko) you can hear John say, "Paul and Marty are dead, miss them, miss them, miss them." The real Grace Slick had moved on to become the replacement for Marilyn Chambers on the Ivory Snow boxes, as she thought Ivory Snow was a euphemism for Peruvian flake. Speaking of flakes, Jorma Kaukonen had already moved to Athens, Ohio to raise goldfish, and Jack Cassady went fly fishing in Idaho, never to be heard from again. While the official party line maintained that Spencer Dryden was an alcoholic, he was actually leading a double life as an elementary school math teacher. Unfortunately, Paul Kantner didn't disappear but remained behind to record several critically flamed l.p.s about dope smuggling aliens. As to the fake Grape(who were already fake by then, making the fake Grape actually double fake): and you are surprised? Matthew Katz--now there's a nice guy. Wasn't it eight singles released from the first l.p? Or was there ever a first l.p. at all. Ever notice how that extended middle finger on the poster mysteriously disappeared? That's a thread in and of itself.

Bless it's pointed little head anyway.

[Tony Pusey]

[gdogus]

Bad, Bad, bad news.....

The Internet Archive has worked with tapers, tape traders, funders, admins, and over 1000 bands to build a great non-commercial music library that is freely accessible. Technically and policy-wise, it has been invigorating as you can probably appreciate. We have made changes in the past and we will make changes again.

Following the policies of the Grateful Dead and the Dead communities we have provided non-commercial access to thousands of great concerts. Based on discussions with many involved, the Internet Archive has been asked to change how the Grateful Dead concert recordings are being distributed on the Archive site for the time being. The full collection will remain safe in the Archive for preservation purposes.

Here is the plan:

Audience recordings are available in streaming format (m3u).

Soundboard recordings are not available.

Additionally, the Grateful Dead recordings will be separated from the Live Music Archive into its own collection. The metadata and reviews for all shows and recordings will remain available.

We appreciate that this change will be a surprise and upset many of you, but please channel reactions in ways that you genuinely think will be productive. If we keep the bigger picture in mind that there are many experiments going on right now, and experiments working well, we can build on the momentum that tape trading started decades ago.

Working together we can keep non-commercial sharing part of our world.

Thank you for helping find balances that work for all involved.

-brewster

Digital Librarian and Founder

-Matt Vernon

Volunteer GD Archivist

I've been thinking about this, and something in there just doesn't sound quite right. I think it's this bit: "Based on discussions with many involved, the Internet Archive has been asked to change how the Grateful Dead concert recordings are being distributed on the Archive site for the time being. Who are the "many involved," exactly? And who has asked the Archive to make the change?

A further statement from brewster, the "digital librarian and founder," only deepens the mystery:

Given the conversations, I think we have said what we could and should. What we are optimizing for is to bring as much access to great works as we can and give all involved time and space to learn.

I realize this is vague, for which I apologize. Most of all, I am sorry that there is a lot less great music on the site.

Attempts at interpretation are welcome.

Edited November 28, 2005 by gdogus

[Sundog]

Seems fairly obvious to me. Even though the Dead's concert library is quite large, it is finite. Why give away what you can sell? I for one have no problem with it and am amazed their extremely liberal trading policy lasted as long as it did.

[gdogus]

Seems fairly obvious to me. Even though the Dead's concert library is quite large, it is finite. Why give away what you can sell? I for one have no problem with it and am amazed their extremely liberal trading policy lasted as long as it did.

Understood. I have no problem with it either - more like an anthropological curiosity. But this may be a little more complicated than it seems. Note a few things:

1. The Dead's trading policy has not changed, and probably won't. Folks can still trade concert recordings as much as they like, as long as no money changes hands in the process. The only change is that one web site, the Internet Archive - an independent, non-profit repository - has complied with a request from a conscientiously unnamed someone or something to remove their 1,000+ Grateful Dead soundboards from free public availability.

2. It may be that Grateful Dead Productions made the request. If so, why does the Archive not say so, and explain why the request was made in the context of the trading policy? It's all pretty mysterious.

3. My call wasn't really for interpretations of the general situation, which may turn out to be fairly obvious, but instead for interpretations of the cryptic language in the comment from brewster; again,

Given the conversations, I think we have said what we could and should. What we are optimizing for is to bring as much access to great works as we can and give all involved time and space to learn.

I realize this is vague, for which I apologize. Most of all, I am sorry that there is a lot less great music on the site.

Just intrigued by all the intrigue...

[Guest]

According to David Gans, for all the golf balls and Dick's Picks, the money isn't enough to keep all the "family members" employed. Suppsedly they laid off Ramrod, who was a quippie since 1969. This is an example. Again, supposedly. They always saw the vault as their retirement account; the availability on etree threatened that. The issue I think is that the cow has been giving the milk away for free for so long that the farmer is going broke. The original idea was that trading tapes was a friendly, quiet, semi-underground thing. Now half the vault was on one site, downloadable by thousands of potential buyers. Who needs Dick's Picks? The latest DP was still on Etree when they shut it down.

To many users this is all heresy--where's that old dead spirit? Hey--they never had to let a single thing escape and they could have gone on cutting mic cords like they did in the early seventies. They were being

very generous, but things got out of hand.

Can you really blame them for finally retaking control of their own product? Besides, if you want a show, go to a dead trading site and ask for a b&p. That's how it all got started anyway. And I don't think the dead have any issue with that. If they did, gdlive, nugs, and all the other smaller sites would also be told to remove live shows. Be grateful for what did exist for so long. And buy the cd releases.

[WD45]

...And buy the cd releases.

If they want to sell me a complete 1969 Fillmore Concerts 10 cd set, I would gladly shell out.

[Guest]

]

If they want to sell me a complete 1969 Fillmore Concerts 10 cd set, I would gladly shell out.

[Chalupa]

]

If they want to sell me a complete 1969 Fillmore Concerts 10 cd set, I would gladly shell out.

I'll bet they wished they made 25,000 copies! but meantime, I saw 3/28 on Furthernet while surfing it the other day--and I downloaded one of the 1972 Paris concerts -- which had already been removed from etree last year.

Anyone figure out how to make the downloads on nugs.net work? They have the other Paris concert and the infamous "Field Trip" 8-27-72 concert up.

Oh, and they have that phoney Cornell thing up too.

All part of the conspiracy. If you listen closely to the beginning of the tape, you will hear Jerry say, "this oughta fool the little fuckers."

I don't see anything but the commercially available releases up on nugs.net - am I looking in the right place?

Edited November 28, 2005 by Chalupa

[Guest]

I don't see anything but the commercially available releases up on nugs.net - am I looking in the right place?

Edited November 28, 2005 by orchiddoctor

[Tom in RI]

Another Bit Torrent site that currently has soundboards is at:

http://www.tmnsp.net/useragreement.php

[Guest]

Another Bit Torrent site that currently has soundboards is at:

http://www.tmnsp.net/useragreement.php

Now, if only some kid would drop by and open my firewall ports!

Have you seen the tempest on etree's forum? You'd think these downloads were a birthright. I guess if one didn't collect them all, well, then . . . .

[Chalupa]

Deadheads Boycott Dead (www.rollingstone.com)

Fans object to band's live recordings being pulled from Web

Grateful Dead fans, perhaps rock's most dedicated bunch, are taking a stand against the band they love. Until recently, Deadheads could download countless live recordings of the band for free from third-party sites, including the popular Live Music Archive (archive.org), which once hosted nearly 3,000 Grateful Dead shows. All of the downloads were pulled last week at the request of Grateful Dead Merchandising (GDM), the group that handles official products for the band and is overseen by its surviving members.

Deadheads have answered in protest. In an online petition, fans have pledged to boycott GDM -- including CDs and concert tickets -- until the decision is reversed. (The band itself broke up in the wake of leader Jerry Garcia's 1995 death, but in recent years guitarist Bob Weir, bassist Phil Lesh and drummers Mickey Hart and Bill Kreutzmann have toured simply as "the Dead.")

GDM recently began selling live music downloads through its online store. The sudden lockdown could be a simple non-compete strike, or it could foreshadow a long-rumored deal with iTunes that will make the entire Grateful Dead live vault available for purchase.

Fans were incensed that the policy change applies not only to official soundboards but audience recordings as well. Throughout their four-decade career, the Grateful Dead actively encouraged fans to trade live recordings and even designated a special "taper's section" at the concerts. In return, Deadheads largely respected the band's wishes that the concert recordings weren't sold for profit.

The petition states: "Now it appears doing the right thing, for the fans, has given way to greed . . . We've lost all respect for this organization . . . We refuse to support any aspect of GDM until we see change." The petition has already picked up thousands of signatures. A kindler, gentler petition is also circulating, with nearly an additional thousand signatures.

On his blog, David Gans -- host of the syndicated radio show Grateful Dead Hour, which has drawn on the Live Music Archive for its broadcasts -- criticized the petition: "The howling has begun, and the sense of entitlement that has always concerned me is in full flower." Countering claims that the Dead are doing this to maintain "champagne-and-Porsche lifestyles," Gans mentioned that Grateful Dead Productions, the band's business wing, was recently forced to downsize. Meanwhile, fans are still permitted to trade shows, and Live Music Archive is developing a special section for streaming thousands of the band's audience recordings. "I think it's worthwhile to ask ourselves if there isn't some greed on the other side of the equation," wrote Gans, pointing to the fans.

An official statement from the Grateful Dead camp is expected in the next few days. In the meantime, longtime band publicist and spokesperson, Dennis McNally, told Rolling Stone that he thinks "David Gans' comments were dead -- you'll pardon the expression -- on."

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http://www.boingboing.net/2005/11/29/barlo...death_of_g.html

Tuesday, November 29, 2005

Barlow on death of Grateful Dead music sharing, fans protest

Recently, Cory blogged this news:

"Archive.org has been forced to take down over 1000 soundboard recordings of the Grateful Dead by Jerry's wife and a few (perhaps one) remaining member of the band."

John Perry Barlow, EFF co-founder and former Grateful Dead lyricist, tells Boing Boing:

You have no idea how sad I am about this. I fought it hammer and tong, but the drummers had inoperable bricks in their head about it.

What's worse is that they now want to remove all Dead music from the Web. They might as easily put a teaspoon of food coloring in a swimming pool and then tell the pool owner to get it back to them.

It's like finding out that your brother is a child molester. And then, worse, having everyone then assume that you're a child molester too. I've been called a hypocrite in three languages already.

How magnificently counter-productive of them. It's as if the goose who laid the golden egg had decided to commit suicide so that he could get more golden eggs.

This is just the beginning of the backlash, I promise you.

This is worse than the RIAA suing their customers.

Here's Barlow's blog. Today, news that Deadheads are boycotting the Dead, according to this Rolling Stone article:

All of the downloads were pulled last week at the request of Grateful Dead Merchandising (GDM), the group that handles official products for the band and is overseen by its surviving members.

Deadheads have answered in protest. In an online petition, fans have pledged to boycott GDM -- including CDs and concert tickets -- until the decision is reversed. (The band itself broke up in the wake of leader Jerry Garcia's 1995 death, but in recent years guitarist Bob Weir, bassist Phil Lesh and drummers Mickey Hart and Bill Kreutzmann have toured simply as "the Dead.")

---------------------------

The sense of entitlement that some of these deadheads have is incredible.

Edited November 29, 2005 by Chalupa

[WD45]

Perhaps one of them will be so furious as to send me their copy of The Complete 1969 Fillmore Concerts 10 CD set, with bonus disc.

[Chalupa]

Hey I'm bummed out about the loss of the LMA but I'm not THAT bummed!!

[Spontooneous]

I'm currently stuck on 12/6/73. It's a little bit out of whack vocally (not Donna's fault -- she wasn't even there), but it's just about everything you ever wanted instrumentally. Also in the deal, maybe my favorite China > Rider.

[Quincy]

Hey I'm bummed out about the loss of the LMA but I'm not THAT bummed!!

I can't help but think how ineffective the boycott will be considering the closest thing to an official purchase in many of the "entitleds'" collections is burned copies of Dick's Picks.