The Grateful Dead Dark Star

[Peter Johnson]

I have to say, though, I saw this coming...

[Spontooneous]

I was afraid this day would come.

Wish I'd gotten DSL a few months earlier, instead of waiting until September of this year.

[Chalupa]

Well, yes, I guess we all knew this day was coming but it still sucks just the same.

I don't blame them for doing this(pulling the plug) I surprised they didn't do this years ago. I mean the Deadheads were able to get almost the entire contents of the Vault digitized and available for free download YEARS before GDM was ever able to do it.

But changing their policy at this point after allowing digital trading for the past 8 to 10 years seems a little shortsighted to me. They can't put the genie back in the bottle at this point. Yes, it will be a little hard to get the music but not impossible. Phish has never allowed their music to be made available on the LMA but you can find just about any show you want w/ a little effort. People will just have to go back to having private ftp servers like they did in the days before LMA. And for people w/out passwords to the ftp servers they will go back to trading cds by snail mail.

I think they went overboard on just allowing the audience tape to be streamed and not downloadable. Free trading of GD audience recordings has been the Dead's policy for 20 years. As it has been discussed in another forum on this board, the free exchange of audience recordings helped promote the band and broiught in scores of new fans. I wonder what kind of ripple effect(pun intended) this will have through out the music biz.

What worries me though is that GDM will continue to make the digital downloads available at the same snail's pace as in the past. At that rate we will never see(hear) the bulk of the Vault in our lifetime. I hope that they are planning to make the entire contents availble for download soon. It would be a shame to deny people the access to all of that glorious(and some not so glorious) music.

[Guest]

This is not really surprising--although soundboards were available as far back as 1971 (at least), and there were over a dozen FM live shows in the Fall of 1972 alone. Around five or so years ago, the remaining members got into a serious fight over the archives. There was the faction that wanted to get a corporate entity such as microsoft to make the archives available on a pay as you go basis. Phil wanted to avoid what he considered as crass commercialism and split from the others for several years. All of his gigs are downloadable for free; Weir's are pay for play, as are The Dead's. Now, we have DPs, Downloads, Vault and DVD releases.

Can you blame a band for realizing that they are sitting on a gold mine? With so many soundboards in circulation, what's left to surprise the buying public? Take the new DP from Philly '72--it's been available for years and years as a nice soundboard. Sure, I bought the upgrade--because I was at that show. Otherwise--I'm not sure I would have. I almost passed on the Fillmore set--I'm glad I didn't.

And by the way, hurry up to gdlive.com,, and Furthernet.org before they get the news. And, what the hell: the vault releases are priceless anyway.

Remember: "There is nothing like a Grateful Dead concert."

[Quincy]

As far as I know there's no change in the trading of soundboards policy. Sure trading can take more work, sometimes even requiring 2 or 3 tries to get a good copy of a show, but I always enjoyed the human touch.

The speed at which the net & bit torrenting can spread shows is so much faster compared to old fashioned trading I can't blame them at all for the policy change. Several other groups that allow taping are anti-torrent, such as the Allman Bros. & Jorma.

I was great while it lasted, but it looks like the old fashioned way of trading shows & B&Ps still lives on.

[Guest]

Here's the full story via Etree:

" Folks,

Grateful Dead has come up with the following statement and guidelines regarding the use of our music on MP3. We want to make sure that the artists' rights as well as your privacy are not compromised. We have tried to address all those issues in the statement.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STATEMENT TO MP3 SITE OPERATORS

The Grateful Dead and our managing organizations have long encouraged the purely noncommercial exchange of music taped at our concerts and those of our individual members. That a new medium of distribution has arisen - digital audio files being traded over the Internet - does not change our policy in this regard.

Our stipulations regarding digital distribution are merely extensions of those long-standing principles and they are as follow:

• No commercial gain may be sought by websites offering digital files of our music, whether through advertising, exploiting databases compiled from their traffic, or any other means.

• All participants in such digital exchange acknowledge and respect the copyrights of the performers, writers and publishers of the music.

• This notice should be clearly posted on all sites engaged in this activity.

• We reserve the ability to withdraw our sanction of noncommercial digital music should circumstances arise that compromise our ability to protect and steward the integrity of our work.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Grateful Dead Sanctions Free MP3 Music Format

Decision Follows Action Against Commercial Web Site

MILL VALLEY, Calif., May 11 /PRNewswire/ --

In a major policy initiative by one of the nation's most enduring musical groups, the Grateful Dead will, under strict guidelines prohibiting commercial use, allow free Internet downloads of live performances taped by their fans via the popular but controversial MP3 format, the group's attorney, Eric Doney, announced today.

Doney, a partner in the firm of Donahue, Gallagher, Woods & Wood, said the Grateful Dead is believed to be one of the first major bands to adopt a policy that essentially endorses free MP3 music, a format some members of the recording industry have strongly condemned.

The decision follows several weeks of discussion and review by the surviving members of the Grateful Dead and includes strict and non negotiable guidelines, Doney said. Furthermore, the announcement follows recent dispute with the owners of a web site that posted MP3 files of Grateful Dead live recordings for free download but received revenues from banner advertisements.

"The members of the Grateful Dead feel this decision is important and far reaching for both the band and their fans," Doney said. "This MP3 policy continues the band's long tradition of allowing free access to and trading of live recordings of their music and ensures that fans are not left with outmoded technology.

"At the same time, the strict guidelines protect the Grateful Dead against the very real threat of pirated intellectual property posed by the trading and possible sale of MP3 files via the Internet."

Under the guidelines, any web site owner is free to post copies of the group's live recordings made by fans as MP3 encoded files but may not derive any form of revenues from the endeavor, Doney said. This means web site operators may not charge for downloads, may not solicit any form of advertising, may not post any type of banner advertisements and may not sell email addresses or other data about fans downloading Grateful Dead music.

Only live recordings are sanctioned by this initiative, Doney said. The Grateful Dead will continue to aggressively prosecute any web site operators or any other businesses trafficking in Grateful Dead studio recordings, which are protected under U.S. copyright laws, Doney said."

Nothing here about private trading of what is already available. I can't imagine them kicking in anyone's door over a few b&ps.

[kenny weir]

Plenty of Fillmore sets on ebay, and - good news for those who missed out - the prices seem to be dropping through competition.

[jazzbo]

well, all this makes sense and is not really surprising.

I just wish I had not postponed burning the six cds of Acid Test material that was on line last weekend! That's really the last of the material I wanted to download that I hadn't yet!

[jazzbo]

Saw this photo while listening to "You Don't Know the Shape I'm In" from the Last Waltz four cd set. . .

Seemed oddly appropriate!

Edited November 23, 2005 by jazzbo

[Guest]

Saw this photo while listening to "You Don't Know the Shape I'm In" from the Last Waltz four cd set. . .

Seemed oddly appropriate!

"The dirtiest dog sucking man in show business."---Bob Weir, 1970

[jazzbo]

"Hmmm. . . I wonder if I resemble that remark. . . ."

[Guest]

"Fix the damn sound, Mr. soundman, or I'll chop off your head and shit in it."--Ron McKernan, 1970.

Yes that's the one. That's him, officer, I swear.

Where are you finding those great pictures?

[jazzbo]

I just do a google search for images. . . . I put in "Pigpen" and got those!

[AmirBagachelles]

As for the big box on Ebay, I think we are seeing accidental/amateur scalpers right now selling their one or two extra sets, and a lot of bidding for the holidays. I believe there are dealers who bought 5 or more sets and they won't offer them for sale for awhile, after scarcity really takes hold in peoples' minds. Although January sales are usually a good time to shop, I wouldn't be too sure of it with this thing, prices might not sink below $200-300 after this next month. At very high price points, I have to believe (because I missed my shot!!!!) incremental utility/enjoyment beyond hearing Live Dead and the 3CD set, plus the previously available boards, is going to be slim.

[Tony Pusey]

Whiling away my time waiting for delivery of the Fillmore set, and note that 4 sets are shown on E Bay, 1 is at 300 bucks (minus 1 cent) with 3 days to go. Still some interest out there...

[Dave James]

I'm still hoping to pick one of these off for somewhere in the $200-250 range. I keep telling myself to just shut up, buy the 3 CD compilation and be done with it, but the 10 CD, full-meal deal continues to whistle quite the siren song.

Up over and out.

[Chalupa]

Rumor has it that they (GDM) are going to be releasing the box as individual shows sometime next year. They done this already for the Golden Road and Garcia solo boxes. So I would just save your money and wait a few months.

[Guest]

Rumor has it that they (GDM) are going to be releasing the box as individual shows sometime next year. They done this already for the Golden Road and Garcia solo boxes. So I would just save your money and wait a few months.

Unlikely, as these were sold under a when we run out we run out. The pressing was limited to 10,000 copies. With all the added interest from those who missed it and those who didn't want to fork over the bucks for the full set, they did the 3cd special. Doesn't make sense that they'd release this again. The other material you mention is still available as boxed sets and will be indefinitely.

Why do I suspect that if someone can beat the encryption on these cds that cdr copies will become availible

through back channels.

[Chalupa]

Rumor has it that they (GDM) are going to be releasing the box as individual shows sometime next year. They done this already for the Golden Road and Garcia solo boxes. So I would just save your money and wait a few months.

Unlikely, as these were sold under a when we run out we run out. The pressing was limited to 10,000 copies. With all the added interest from those who missed it and those who didn't want to fork over the bucks for the full set, they did the 3cd special. Doesn't make sense that they'd release this again. The other material you mention is still available as boxed sets and will be indefinitely.

Why do I suspect that if someone can beat the encryption on these cds that cdr copies will become availible

through back channels.

1. Considering how fast the box sold out it doesn't make ANY sense that GDM doesn't re-release these shows. They won't re-release the box but the shows will either be released CDs or as downloads. If GDM figuress that there is still money to be made of this run(and they do) you know they will try to squeeze every dollar they can out of them.

2. The discs are not encrypted. I just copied/burned the first two discs for the car.

[Guest]

Coooool on the encryption. I hadn't tried yet, so it is great to know. Free copies for everyone (note to G.D. attorneys: that's a joke, okay?).

But I would be surprised if they re-released this specifically numbered limited edition on disc. You might be right about a possible download. After all, there are those golf balls. Frankly I hope I'm wrong about a reissue. I wish they would do it NOW to mess with all those capitalist pig lackeys of the hangdog imperialist money hungry power structure on E-bay, although it's been rumored the Bob Weir is the brains and supplyer behind the ebay operation. And it might explain all of those Pigpen sightings in Vegas as of late.

I would imagine that it would piss off a lot of folks--especially those who bought it for a million and half dollars on ebay, or those who "settled" for the sampler--if it were rereleased although it wouldn't bother me a bit. Everyone should have the opportunity to hear this stuff.

Maybe they could contribute the additional revenue to the Rex Foundation or the Katrina relief fund to mollify the detractors. Even if they were once "busted, down on Bourbon Street."

That would be nice

Edited November 26, 2005 by orchiddoctor

[Quincy]

although it's been rumored the Bob Weir is the brains and supplyer behind the ebay operation. And it might explain all of those Pigpen sightings in Vegas as of late.

It's very sweet of you to rumor that Bobby is the brains. Probably a first!

[Guest]

Some bad news I found somewhere:

There's been a lot of talk lately about the legendary fake show on 5/8/77. I've kept my silence on the subject for 28 years ... now it's finally time to come clean on the whole subject.

The whole idea began back in late 1969/early 1970. The Department of Defense and the CIA were very disappointed by the way the Vietnam War was progressing. Not only were we losing but, more importantly, the US public did not approve of the war and, worse yet, weren't believing everything the military said about what was happening. This was an unprecidented event. Every other recent war was viewed positively by the public ... or at least with apathy in the case of Korea. Something had to be done. They decided to take a page from the Soviets and experiment with mind control.

Together with Disney and a fledgling computer company called Microsoft, they set out to prove that brainwashing could really work on the very people who opposed them: the hippies.

It isn't widely known but Cornell was actually the second test of these mind control procedures. The first occurred in mid-1975 and was a dismal failure. 2 major mistakes were made. First, they picked the one time that the Dead were not touring. This created all sorts of problems with the subject audience. The more serious mistake was in not updating the criteria of the experiment. Due to typical government inefficiency, they used the 1969 version of the Dead that was playing when the program was conceived. The sudden appearance of Pigpen, who had died 2 years earlier, literally blew the minds of those in attendance. 6 months were spent erasing all traces of the "show" and carefully rebuilding as much of their minds as possible. The subjects were eventually released and most of them became evangelists, their only lingering memory of the whole experiment being an unshakable belief that they'd witnessed a true miracle.

Unfortunatly, no tapes have been found from this first experiment. That's a real shame because the version of Dark Star->St Stephen->Eleven->Lovelight used was supposedly the best ever. After a few drinks, the original scientists still speak in awe about the music heard that day.

By Nov 1977, everyone was ready for the second test. This time, they learned from their mistakes. A small group of college students (including yours truely) were hired to attend shows from 1976 through 1977. Our job was to collect tapes of the Dead's performances, select which tunes to use, and to help identify subjects for the upcomming experiment. The location and date were chosen with equal care. It was a off-day during the tour and the location close enough to the real concerts to be believed. Of more importance was the late snowfall that day. That unusual and easily confirmed event provided the glue that would hold the implanted memories together. Even now 28 years later, people "remembering" that concert use almost

identical words to discribe leaving the show.

Overall, the experiment was a great success. Of course, some people were given slightly different memories. Some, like Teddy Goodbear, "remember" taping the show and were even provided "Audience" tapes to further cement the hoax. Still others remember getting "horribly smashed" up front. None of this actually occured.

A week after the "concert" experiment, a 2nd test was done on the town of Cornell itself. In order to perfect this hoax, the town itself must also be convinced that the concert took place. Disney had acquired ownership of all the local TV and radio stations through dummy corporations. Using special software developed by Microsoft, they played subliminal messages to every man, woman and child in a 100 mile radius of Barton Hall. For the most part, this programming still holds today although some people did prove resistant to the message.

As far as the source of the music, for the most part the list posted by "brew ziggins" is correct. The only mystery remaining is the Scarlet-> Fire. That was actually performed by the Dead specifically for this experiment. Since Jerry secretly worked for the CIA, it was easy to convince him and the rest of the band to go along. Plus he liked the idea of "pranking" a large group of people like this. The fabled 2/6/77 "take a step back" rehearsal tape is allso from material taped for these experiments.

The soundboard tapes in circulation were leaked by Betty O'Connell who edited the orginal tapes. I don't know if it was just a coincidence or not, but they were leaked at about the same time as the tapes recorded by Betty Cantor were found. In any event, they became part of the so-called "Betty Boards". Leaking these tapes also provided the first cracks in the hoax to appear since the tapes were distributed to people who were not in the experiment and who knew that no show was performed that day. It was necessary to obtain their silence through blackmail, bribery and in extreme cases, mind control itself. That's also how this "show" came to be listed in all the popular Dead show guides like DeadBase.

So what's happened to these mind control techniques used in this experiment? I got out of the program in 1978 but it's obvious that they are still being used today. Microsoft has used this power to become one of the biggest, most influencial companies in history. They sure didn't become that big by providing quality products. It was used to shape public reaction to the Gulf War. It's also clear that George Bush never understood the full power of these methods. After the Gulf War, the technology was leaked to a young governer who used them to be successfully elected to 2 terms as president and remain in power despite facing numerous charges that should have seen him removed from office or even thrown in prision. There are also indications that this technology might explain the otherwise unbelievable popularity of rap music.

That's the whole story. I'll probably end up in jail (or worse) for revealing this but it feels good to finally get the whole thing off my chest.

DID ANYBODY attend this show? Can anybody confirm or deny the authenticity of this information? If this has been discussed previously, forgive me.

Edited November 26, 2005 by orchiddoctor

[jazzbo]

Thanks, due to some really bad news last week, I really really needed that good big laugh!

[Guest]

Thanks, due to some really bad news last week, I really really needed that good big laugh!

Laugh, Jazzbo, laugh? You think this is funny? Finding out that the Dead were a part of the biggest mass hoax in history? Do you have any idea how many guys (and girls!) think they got laid that night? Do you realize the position that I have placed myself in by coming clean? If you think my post is a prank, I suggest you check the folders of all those concerts you downloaded from etree: they are empty--just part of the mass hallucination that was the Grateful Dead.

Oh, if any of you narcs are still looking for me, my address is still 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, D.C. 20202.

Edited November 26, 2005 by orchiddoctor

[jazzbo]

I'm laughing still!