The Grateful Dead Dark Star

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

On 9/24/2020 at 4:25 PM, jazzbo said:

I've had a lot of tapes. . . none have sounded better to me than the official versions!

I get the revisionist comment. . . but I stopped with Brent. . . by 1980. Just never got into him, and I jumped off the bus and stayed off as far as anything the Dead did after that. Followed some Garcia Band after that, but not a lot.

so, it was 1980: you heard the new album/lineup, and it didnt sit with you good?  Was it beacuse of Far From Me and/or Easy To Love You?  The group sonud changed so much throughout the decade, that by 1989 they had reached a new peak.  Would you prefer a different keyboardist or do you feel Keith & Donna shouldn't of been fired?  

 

[jazzbo]

Actually I saw them in '80 with Brent and after seeing them several times with Keith and Donna it was a big let down. "Go to Heaven" had a few good songs (I confess I do love "Althea") but I hated Brent's songs and singing and the band's "feel" had changed not to my liking in concert. I was becoming discenchanted with rock in general and getting more and more into jazz from fusion and I just dropped the Dead--and other bands. I touched base with the Dead now and then after that and nothing drew me in. When I got back into the Dead this century I found nothing had changed. I like pre-1980 (espeically from the start to the "retirement") and didn't get into anything from beyond.

Edited December 10, 2020 by jazzbo

[Steve Reynolds]

5 hours ago, jazzbo said:

Actually I saw them in '80 with Brent and after seeing them several times with Keith and Donna it was a big let down. "Go to Heaven" had a few good songs (I confess I do love "Althea") but I hated Brent's songs and singing and the band's "feel" had changed not to my liking in concert. I was becoming discenchanted with rock in general and getting more and more into jazz from fusion and I just dropped the Dead--and other bands. I touched base with the Dead now and then after that and nothing drew me in. When I got back into the Dead this century I found nothing had changed. I like pre-1980 (espeically from the start to the "retirement") and didn't get into anything from beyond.

I mostly agree as Brent was a pedestrian keyboard player at best who could play a nice Hammond B3 but with little of no magical improvising abilities that Jerry, Phil & Keith were gifted with and/or developed.

plus his songs were uniformly awful and his lead singing worse than that.

Plus Bobby was a brilliant rhythm guitarist from 1972 through 78. Simply extraordinary in many respects. The improvised aspect of the Dead’s music especially from 72-74 stands with any improvised music played or recorded in the 20th century. 
 

try any of the Dark Stars, Other Ones or Playing in the Bands from those years for evidence. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Steve Reynolds

[clifford_thornton]

I've grown to like Brent, even his songs.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

[clifford_thornton]

HA!

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

[jazzbo]

That's the first and only time I've ever seen "Go to Heaven" described as a masterpiece.

[Steve Reynolds]

1 hour ago, jazzbo said:

That's the first and only time I've ever seen "Go to Heaven" described as a masterpiece.

I remember buying the LP when it came out and then after a few spins I think the only tracks worth anything were Althea & Alabama Getaway. I wondered why only two Garcia/Hunter tunes and those were the two. None of us knew Jerry was in the thralls of drug addiction that stole his creativity and eventually took his life. 
 

when Hunter passed last year it was the only time I’ve shed a tear for a songwriter/poet passing away.

[mjzee]

Did Hunter and Garcia have a falling out?

[jazzbo]

I don't think so, though he was not alone in being very concerned by Jerry's heroin addiction. Here's an interview with interesting material:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/grateful-deads-robert-hunter-on-jerrys-final-days-we-were-brothers-97334/

[Steve Reynolds]

54 minutes ago, mjzee said:

Did Hunter and Garcia have a falling out?

No - Jerry was in isolation for many years besides the concerts - the early 80’s were the worst. They reconnected strongly in the late 80’s & in 1993 when Jerry has periods of some sort of recovery. Find Hunter’s beautiful letter to Jerry a year after his death. Amazing heartfelt stuff. 

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

5 hours ago, jazzbo said:

That's the first and only time I've ever seen "Go to Heaven" described as a masterpiece.

By far their best sounding studio project!  It might be the only rock cd i have w/ an authentic in person-sounding bass drum sound!

Edited December 11, 2020 by chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez

[jazzbo]

Okay, I'm glad you dig it so much. "Sounding" only gets an album so far with me. I would need two hands to count the Grateful Dead studio albums I think are more substantial musically than this one.

Edited December 11, 2020 by jazzbo

[mjzee]

1 hour ago, jazzbo said:

I don't think so, though he was not alone in being very concerned by Jerry's heroin addiction. Here's an interview with interesting material:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/grateful-deads-robert-hunter-on-jerrys-final-days-we-were-brothers-97334/

That was good.  Thanks for posting.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

you guys im telling you its all about standing on the moon- pound for pound, it's their best song

 

[Steve Reynolds]

Dave's 38 is 9/8/73 with about 110 minutes from 9/7/73

 

yeah baby

[mjzee]

https://store.dead.net/grateful-dead-skull-roses-50th-anniversary-expanded-edition-2cd.html?eml=2021March24/5284336/6131962&etsubid=25405212

Just announced: GRATEFUL DEAD (SKULL & ROSES) 50TH ANNIVERSARY EXPANDED EDITION 2CD

DEAD FREAKS, old and new, get ready to reunite on June 25th with the release of GRATEFUL DEAD (SKULL & ROSES): EXPANDED EDITION. In celebration of the 50th anniversary, the 2CD set will feature the album’s original 11 tracks, newly remastered from the stereo analog master tapes by Grammy® Award winning engineer David Glasser using Plangent Process Speed Correction. We're topping it off with more than an hour of previously unreleased live recordings taken from the much-requested July 2, 1971 performance at the Fillmore West, the band’s final performance at the historic San Francisco venue. Standouts include the 17-minute Pigpen spectacular “Good Lovin’,” an achingly beautiful take on Merle Haggard’s “Sing Me Back Home,” and a spell-binding version of “The Other One” that rivals the one captured on the original Side 2.

[orchiddoctor]

On 6/30/2004 at 10:50 AM, sal said:

The "So Many Roads" box set is fantastic. I highly recommend that every Dead fan pick this one up.

 

Another great live set that was somewhat recently released was "Ladies & Gentlemen.....The Grateful Dead", which is a 4 disc live set from the Fillmore East from I think 1970. This one is one of my favorites!

 

Anyone else with post-Dick's Picks #20 recommendations, keep em coming! I've added #28 to my list.

Dp 35 Philly. I usually ignore “I was at that show” posts, but I was at that show. For 30 years I had that Dark Star—Dew etched in my brain. When it came out on cd—pure joy.

On 12/9/2020 at 0:42 PM, jazzbo said:

Actually I saw them in '80 with Brent and after seeing them several times with Keith and Donna it was a big let down. "Go to Heaven" had a few good songs (I confess I do love "Althea") but I hated Brent's songs and singing and the band's "feel" had changed not to my liking in concert. I was becoming discenchanted with rock in general and getting more and more into jazz from fusion and I just dropped the Dead--and other bands. I touched base with the Dead now and then after that and nothing drew me in. When I got back into the Dead this century I found nothing had changed. I like pre-1980 (espeically from the start to the "retirement") and didn't get into anything from beyond.

I second that. But a lot depends on when you first heard them or got it. For me it was 6/10/67. Grunge! Pig Pen! 
 

Lon: been listening to a lot of 73 as of late. Some brilliant jamming. Oklahoma City Eyes—Stella Blue. Can’t get enough. 

[jazzbo]

59 minutes ago, orchiddoctor said:

Lon: been listening to a lot of 73 as of late. Some brilliant jamming. Oklahoma City Eyes—Stella Blue. Can’t get enough. 

Good to see you post my friend. Yes, '73 was a good year. First year I got to see them. And though first albums I got to know were "Live/Dead" and "Skull and Roses" "Wake of the Flood" was the one that really got my attention and made me listen in a new way. "Row Jimmy Row" followed by"Stella Blue!" And then "Weather Report Suite." Just great stuff studio or live.

[orchiddoctor]

Just now, jazzbo said:

Good to see you post my friend. Yes, '73 was a good year. First year I got to see them. And though first albums I got to know were "Live/Dead" and "Skull and Roses" "Wake of the Flood" was the one that really got my attention and made me listen in a new way. "Row Jimmy Row" followed by"Stella Blue!" And then "Weather Report Suite." Just great stuff studio or live.

Wake of the Flood is so underrated. Maybe because of that Keith song! But the tenderness, the finesse, and my God, the songs. Stella Blue! Row Jimmy. Eyes. Their last great studio work—imo. Yeah, Blues for Allah is intriguing, but not as nuanced. I wish I’d waited a year before I got off the bus!

Btw: if that Fillmore West disc on the Skull and Roses reissue is their tape, and not the pre fm, it will be worth it.

[jazzbo]

I agree, it should be a good reissue. I really enjoy the Plangent Process results on what they have released. 

[orchiddoctor]

One thing on the skull and roses is that I wish they’d included the NFA reprise—Lovelight from the Manhattan Theater and at least the full outro to Wharf Rat. Maybe the ham that proceeded it. But all have our petty grievances. I’m certainly down for a copy.

 

what on earth can they do for Europe ‘72?

[jazzbo]

Ha, good question. Just reissue it straight I would guess. Or maybe they'll find something that escaped the suitcase. . . one never knows with this band.

[orchiddoctor]

Well American Beauty had a live show from several months after its release. Perhaps they could treat us to a fall ‘72 show.