The Grateful Dead Dark Star

[mjzee]

Over on dead.net, a poster named KeithFan2112 posted a very interesting analysis of the band, comparing when they had 1 or 2 drummers:

The one-drummer / two-drummer conversations always interest me. I played with multiple drummers in my high school ensemble band, and as the lone drummer in half a dozen ill-fated high school and college bands. It's fundamentally impossible to play with the improvisational style that the '71 - '74 Grateful Dead did on numbers like Dark Star, The Other One, Playing in the Band, and countless jams titled Jam, with two drummers. One of them would have to be relegated to an auxiliary role, or the parts would have to be well arranged and rehearsed ahead of time; no room for improv. 

Take Dark Star circa 1972, for example. Changes within a performance were typically directed by Jerry, Phil, or Bill, with Bobby and Keith following (I don't hear much of Pigpen on these '72 performances - I suspect he sat out or played light percussion). If Jerry or Phil want to head in a different direction (i.e. play louder, softer, faster, slower, or introduce a new melody), one has to take the lead, the other has to follow, and the leader has to communicate with the other and the drummer, either through auditory, visual, or telekinetic queues (some argue that telekinetic queues are a more advanced form of auditory queue, but they're usually not musicians:) All of this has to happen with speed and proficiency to sound good, which is what the one-drummer version of the Grateful Dead did with pinpoint precision; they made the unrehearsed sound rehearsed. When they were on their game, they interacted like pistons in a musical engine, and Dark Star moved along with uninterrupted grace. Not to take anything away from Keith and Bobby; they played as much as anyone on these performances, they just weren't facilitating the changes quite as often (a notable exception is when Bobby ENDs Dark Star, typically with a teaser line from Sugar Magnolia, or whatever else was to come next). And that's just Dark Star. I haven't listened nearly as closely to the 1972 performances of The Other One; Bobby may very well lead more here, as it's his song.

The unpredictability and originality that typified the jams of this period isn't possible with two full-kit drummers (they would end up competing with each other, which would not only sound awful, but it would also close off a good deal of the open space where the melody and color of the non-percussion instruments dwell); so a change was in order when Mickey returned. I suppose there are two ways they could have done it: one drummer could stand down and take an auxiliary role (i.e. augment the percussion sound with maracas, bongos, floor toms); or, they could go back to how they did it pre-'71, which is what they did. So, if you compare Dark Star from The Closing of Winterland (or a pre-1971 performance) to just about any Dark Star between '71 and '74, you have more of the changes revolving around melody and volume, rather than tempo and meter. Effectively, they returned to more rehearsed, tighter arrangements, and less improvisation.

Take it easy folks.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, but wait a second here...didn't they have difficulty finding room for TC when they had the beefed up, busy two-drummer rhythm section of 1969? You bet they did, glad you mentioned it; because TC isn't a chord player, he's a note player. TC's challenge wasn't so much having another organ player onstage in Pigpen, as it was finding the open space to PLAY in (and Pigpen was a chord player anyway, so their styles were complimentary). And if TC was a note player, and KEITH is a note player, then wouldn't Keith..have...the same problem....oh boy, I see where this is going - where is my boy Godchaux going to play with two mother-f@#ken drummers in the band?

In retrospect, the demise was certain. With the resignation of the jazz-fueled, acid-drenched monster and pin-drop finesse of the 70s, and the onset of the hard-rockin' cock-swingin' machine of the 80s, Keith Godchaux's role was slowly diminished. The man could play chords in his sleep (which he eventually demonstrated:-), but he didn't thrive as a rhythm player, which was essentially what he was relegated to as the 70s wore on. Within the Dead's sonic landscape, he went from having huge open fields to run the ball in, to getting one or two at-bats a night. No doubt, the return of Mickey Hart was the snowball that started rolling towards Keith, gathering size and momentum with each passing year, until finally it swallowed him up and buried him under. How's that for drama. 

But yeah, Keith Godchaux, great piano player...

[vajerzy]

They announced they still have some CD boxes; ship date's been pushed to mid-October.

I just couldn't pull the trigger on this- too expensive at the time......now it's doable....oh well.

I'll keep an eye out for them again.....just in case...

 

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

this supplication jam.......

https://archive.org/details/gd82-09-14.beyer-sbd.miller.20906.sbeok.shnf

[Kate]

Vaj, unfortunately you don't have a mail address, so this is a longshot, but deadnet has been periodically showing 30 trips inventory since credit card billing began last Friday - presumably as discontinued cards and cancellations are encountered.  Right now, the site allows me to cart 2 boxes; so, if you check in here and are still interested, pop in to their site - and keep checking over the next couple days.  Good luck!/peace, K

[vajerzy]

Vaj, unfortunately you don't have a mail address, so this is a longshot, but deadnet has been periodically showing 30 trips inventory since credit card billing began last Friday - presumably as discontinued cards and cancellations are encountered.  Right now, the site allows me to cart 2 boxes; so, if you check in here and are still interested, pop in to their site - and keep checking over the next couple days.  Good luck!/peace, K

thanks!! I will check periodically- you never know!!

[mjzee]

Just announced: Dave's Picks Vol. 16 - Springfield, MA, March 28, 1973.

[Kate]

Mj:  My cup overfloweth....

 

 

[jazzbo]

Just announced: Dave's Picks Vol. 16 - Springfield, MA, March 28, 1973.

Cool! I don't think I'll subscribe next year. . . I find myself listening to less and less Dead and haven't listened to any from the last two years more than once so far.

[mjzee]

I might not subscribe next year...will have my hands full listening to the box.

[mjzee]

For 2 days only, Amazon is offering the Kindle version of Deadbase 50 for $2.99.

[Dave Garrett]

Thanks for posting the tip about the Deadbase 50 deal. I'd have almost certainly missed it, as I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else. I have a paperback copy of Deadbase IX, and haven't been too inclined to pony up for a printed copy of any newer editions, but for $2.99 I don't have to think about it any longer than it takes to hit the "Buy Now with 1-Click" button. 

[mjzee]

Glad I could help; I saw it mentioned on a forum at dead.net.  I bought one too; with the search function in the Kindle software, this might even be more useful than the printed version.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

did you guys experience dead & co sun. 11/1 madison sq garden night two?      OMG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7xPw5qb90Y     <--- (epic scarlet/fire)

 

 

[Tom 1960]

Clearly Jon Mayer is much more of a talent than his own recordings would indicate. Good stuff!

[jazzbo]

Some years ago I realized John is a great guitar player. And a dick. And that's a common enough combo!

[Ed S]

I'm going to the Dead and Co show in Buffalo on the 11th.  Taking my 2 sons for their birthday gift.  They are now 19 and 21 - late October and early November.  I saw the Dead around 2009 with Warren Haynes and Furthur a couple of years later with my older son.  This will be my younger son's first Dead experience.  Looking forward to it.

I could not name a single song John Mayer sings on his own, but lots of people seem to be impressed that he's touring with this band.  When I tell them they are doing primarily Dead stuff - they are not as impressed.  Sounded good on the video above.

[A Lark Ascending]

Grateful Dead streaming series planned by Amazon

[mjzee]

Greek Theatre, 10/20/68.  Holy fucking shit.

[Kate]

Sacramental Pooh & The Greek

 

Honestly, take this, RT2.2 (arguably THE greatest GOGD show of 2300+) in addition to DiP 22, through which - though only covering 6 months of a 30 year career - you've arguably assembled some of the best music played by a band whose history otherwise spanned 6 presidents!

Phil is not only playing rhythm bass, but catalystic Lead on GMLSC, though he defers to Jerry's bodaciously nimble, and seemingly inexhaustible, fretwork throughout the balance; and, though all of Art is subjective, I'd be hard pressed to understand how any aficionado of the Blues, Jazz, or simply high-octane RocknRoll wouldn't just swoon at cross-over genius of this magnitude!/peace, K 

 

Edit:  If indeed you're enjoying The Box, I'll look forward to future editorials!

Edited December 18, 2015 by Kate

[mjzee]

The box will take me a loooooong time to go through; I'm not a binger.  I'll make notes when I'm genuinely impressed by a show.  I'm more looking forward to experiencing the progression...hearing the band mature and age through the years.  So far, it's pretty exciting, but I'm only up to 1968.  They were so full of piss and vinegar back then.  In '68 we're beginning to hear the collective playing branch out into new directions; I can't wait to hear what T.C. brings to it.  But I must admit, I'm very impressed by Pig's keyboard playing.  He really did keep up with the band, at least back then.

As for 1968 in general, while I really like the playing and the energy, they haven't yet written a lot of the tunes I love.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

On 12/16/2015 at 1:59 AM, A Lark Ascending said:

Grateful Dead streaming series planned by Amazon

w

THIS IS SUCH GOOD AMAZING NEWS.   I hope it takes off and is a successful venture between bobby + amazon.  u see this way bobby cannot possibly skip the NW for Dead & Co. Summer tour  2016

[Kate]

The Orpheum run and '76 go together like PB&J and BLT, not to mention Fear, Loathing & American Politics (apologies to Hunter); thus, DaP 18's selection of the 2nd best show from the Big O tetralogy - 7/17 - is an inherently handicapped winner.  Throw in a modest first set from the previous night as filler as well as the accompanying Monster 2nd stanza on the bonus disc and Dave's assembled a lovely, near-complete, venue-centric, two-fer release from a unique transition year that's really something of an orphaned child among conventionally denominated Dead eras.  WOOT!, I say./peace, K

DL's latest video chat on the matter:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJFFl4s1nyY

 

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

the big show that run for me is the next night, 7/18.....

Lazy Lightnin'
Supplication
Let It Grow

...is on this release

 

 

and i also like later that set the st. stephen reprise into the wheel.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Kate]

In a nod to the thread title, it's a succinct editorial on both the breadth and brilliance of the GD's live performance catalogue that I was not aware of this particular incarnation until prompted by poster over on the Ark earlier this p.m., which, at 42+ minutes covers diverse terrain, but with an artistic cogency that invites attentive listening throughout:

http://relisten.net/grateful-dead/1973/12/6/dark-star

peace, K

 

Edited January 19, 2016 by Kate

[mjzee]

38 minutes ago, Kate said:

In a nod to the thread title, it's a succinct editorial on both the breadth and brilliance of the GD's live performance catalogue that I was not aware of this particular incarnation until prompted by poster over on the Ark earlier this p.m., which, at 42+ minutes covers diverse terrain, but with an artistic cogency that invites attentive listening throughout:

http://relisten.net/grateful-dead/1973/12/6/dark-star

peace, K

 

Yes, this was on the Road Trips 2011 bonus disc.