New Woody Herman Mosaic

[Ed S]

Set number 759. This one's got a long way to go.

[Tjazz]

Set number 759. This one's got a long way to go.

What's interesting is that the Capitol set is limited to 7500 and this Columbia set has a limit of 5000.

[Dave James]

Like some others, I'm a bit torn by this one. I have the other Herman Mosaic, which I think is OK, but my curiosity over the number of vocals on the new release led me to do some research. Here's what I found. There are 141 tunes on the new set. 56 of these are alternate takes, so there are really only 85 tunes if you care to look at it this way. Out of the 141, there are 50 vocals (about 1/3 of the set) with Woody either singing by himself or joined by other vocalists or vocal groups.

So, you really can't avoid allowing your feelings about Herman's vocal work to enter into your buying decision. I guess I'd say I've heard worse, although if he couldn't play the clarinet, I don't think I would have counseled him to quit his day job. His style is relaxed and comfortable...like he doesn't take himself too seriously. If I was pressed for a comparison, I'd call him a poor man's Johnny Mercer. I guess what surprises me is that with the kind of cooking band he had behind him, why he thought it was a good idea to sing so much and so often. Seems to me with the inherent limitations in his voice, he might have opted for fewer trips to the microphone. Could have been an ego thing. I don't think Woody ever lacked for self-confidence.

I guess the question for me would be, is his singing appreciably different in his earlier years than it is on the newer recordings. Not having any of the former, I have no way to compare the two "eras". Hmmm...guess that means I'm still pretty much on the fence.

Up over and out.

[John Tapscott]

Like some others, I'm a bit torn by this one...  I

So, you really can't avoid allowing your feelings about Herman's vocal work to enter into your buying decision.  I guess I'd say I've heard worse, although if he couldn't play the clarinet, I don't think I would have counseled him to quit his day job.  His style is relaxed and comfortable...like he doesn't take himself too seriously.  I guess what surprises me is that with the kind of cooking band he had behind him, why he thought it was a good idea to sing so much and so often.  Seems to me with the inherent limitations in his voice, he might have opted for fewer trips to the microphone.  Could have been an ego thing.  I don't think Woody ever lacked for self-confidence.

I guess the question for me would be, is his singing appreciably different in his earlier years than it is on the newer recordings. 

From what I've heard of Woody's singing, I would say "No." I don't think it changed all that much throughout his entire career, though his voice did become deeper and perhaps more raspy with age. What you've heard is pretty much what you always get.

I rather like Herman's vocals, though not enough to purchase the set for the vocals alone. Surprisngly, I don't think Herman's singing was so much of an ego thing as a commercial thing (he was a shy and retiring man off the stage). Even in the swing era, big bands couldn't make it on the basis of hot jazz alone. They needed their vocal hits for finanicial viability.

I think you would probably be satisfied with the recent 2 disc compilation on Columbia, "Blowin' Up a Storm," which concentrates on the well-known big band charts from the Mosaic set. It's a good compilation with good sound, though the liners could have been a bit more informative.

[ghost of miles]

I guess what surprises me is that with the kind of cooking band he had behind him, why he thought it was a good idea to sing so much and so often.  Seems to me with the inherent limitations in his voice, he might have opted for fewer trips to the microphone.

Dave,

Was this a commercial issue? Didn't vocal numbers tend to do better? I'm not dismissing the large number of instrumental hits in that era, but perhaps he was influenced in part by sales viability.

P.S. Just read John's post above, so I guess I'm just echoing him!

Edited September 8, 2004 by ghost of miles

[Free For All]

The reason you buy this should be to hear a great band with great soloists, period. IMHO the existence of the vocals, whether you like 'em or not, shouldn't be the determining factor.

Edit: BTW, I don't think Woody's vocals came out of any egotistical conceit. I think he was trying to simply add some commercial appeal, knowing that audiences want to hear lyrics. I'm sure he felt this provided a contrast to the band's various instrumental excursions.

Edited September 8, 2004 by Free For All

[Larry Kart]

Also, some of the finest tracks on the set -- in terms of charts, solos, and overall performance by the band -- are those where Herman sings: Laura, I Wonder, A Kiss Goodnight, I've Got the World on a String, I'm Not Having Any This Year, Let It Snow, You've Got Me Cryin' Again, etc. And, of course, the very different Frances Wayne and Mary Ann McCall were among the best female vocalists of the big-band era, or any era for that matter.

[ghost of miles]

OK, probably a shameless plug, but I taped a "Big Bands" program last week that will air this Friday night, and it's devoted almost exclusively to the Herman set. It's nearly all vocals (with the exception of "Non-Alcoholic"), three of the tracks Larry mentioned above are included, and nothing I played is on the BLOWIN' UP A STORM comp. It'll be on WFIU Friday at 9 p.m., if you want to hear some of the vocal material in full-length format.

[Dave James]

Hey guys...thanks for the follow up. For some reason, when I wrote my note, I had Artie Shaw on the brain. Even though they played the same instrument, I'm not sure how I could have crossed him up with Woody Herman, but that's what I was thinking when I made the statement about egos. I agree that commercial interests may have dictated the vocal frequency. Still, with others to fall back upon (the aforementioned Frances Wayne and Mary Ann McCall) I still wonder why so much Woody. Oh well...if I get this it will definitely be for the band and not the vocals.

Up over and out.

Edited September 8, 2004 by Dave James

[Adam]

up for any additional feedback. Dave, what did you end up doing?

[Adam]

up

[BruceH]

Now here's the thread I should have consulted.