Race and Racial Interaction, in America and beyond

[JSngry]

...why do we still look at race as a big issue in picking "our kind"?

Short answer? Because most people have a poor sense of history beyond what happened yesterday, and tend to think and react totally in terms of the here and now. Doesn't matter HOW we ended up segregated by race (well, of course it matters, but you know what I mean in this context...), if that's all people know, and all that their parents, grandparents, etc, knew, then the assumption that race is the definition of "our kind" will most likely go unchallenged by the vast majority of any group until circumstances force a confrontation with that "conventional wisdom".

We saw (and still see) the "our kind" principal at work in the waves of immigrants over the last century, including those of today, and it never really goes away. For example, ask Catesta if he doesn't feel a slightly special bond with other Italians (at least initially), and remember also that these immigrants were often victims of cultural discrimination upon their arrival in America, and that members of those groups who still retain a lot of "old country" identity are much less likely to be percieved as "normal" Americans (unless they pimp it out for show biz purposes).

I see nothing wrong with this bond based on ancestral national origin- it's a level of the whole "family" dynamic at work, I'd say, and a cheerful recognition of a shared cultural heritage is certainly nothing to shy away from in and of itself, is it? It's the foundation we all draw upon as we go forward, and if we acknowledge the deathly effects of slavery on erasing several generations of African-Americans' collective cultural identity, are we not the equally acknowledging, at least implicitly, that the identities that other cultures have, share, and celebrate are good things for them to have?

Of course, we are ALL family at the end of the day, but forces over the centuries have "conspired" to cloud that fact in our collective minds, destroy it even. But things play out in such a way that The Truth cannot be hidden forever, and as our world becomes smaller, and isolation inceasingly difficult, if not impossible, the fallacies of the past will inevitably be put to the test and found wanting by the portion of the population that is interested in TRUE survival. Those who speak of the "preservation of the race" (regardless of what that race may be) are kidding themselves - races can never be totally destroyed, but species damn sure can!

[connoisseur series500]

Of course, we are ALL family at the end of the day

Anthropologists believe that modern humans migrated out of Africa approximately 100,000 years ago and thus began the populating of the world. (See AFRICA: A Biography of a Continent, by John Reader.) All mankind at that time was probably black. We are all brothers and sisters for sure.

[Jazzmoose]

Depending on who you believe, Beethoven.

Or Babe Ruth.

[Rooster_Ties]

Or Jackie McLean??

[Jazzmoose]

Or Jackie McLean??

No way, dude!

[Rooster_Ties]

I only mentioned Jackie cuz way back when, on the BNBB, I very politely and respectfully asked if anyone happened to know what McLean's ethnic background was --- and I got jumped all over quick, at least by a few people there. Something about the timing of my question, relative to some of Aric's typically "sensitive" talk about Race and Jazz. (I think it was only my 2nd week on the board, and I had no idea what can of worms I had opened.)

Hence the 'winkie' thing.

[Jazzmoose]

I know; I remember. Hence my "laugh out loud" smilie!

[davef]

Interesting thread, and I definitely appreciate the civility here compared to any similar topics on the BNBB...

I'm caucasian too, neighborhood is pretty much all white or Asian. My girlfriend is Mexican, from Mexico City.

The guy who gave me the big kick-start for jazz is Jamaican too, half black and half Indian. Interesting guy...

...my stepmom is interesting, she is a big advocate for the little guy and seems to be biased in favor of African-Americans. I have enjoyed the black people that she has had over to the house, but not because of the color of the skin - because of their dignity and grace, and I would have liked them if they were green or purple too.

Not sure if this is adding any value or mere rambling, hopefully more of the former...

[Rooster_Ties]

Not sure if this is adding any value or mere rambling, hopefully more of the former...

Well, I'd count your post on the size of adding value, personally. Thanks, davef, and keep posting to this thread - I always appreciate more people being in on this conversation!!!

Glad to hear about your stepmom. It's especially gratifying to me to hear about positive "cross-racial" stuff in reference to one's parents. In so many cases, one seems to often hear about just the opposite - about people who's parents are so deeply stuck in their own racism.

The parents of a good friend of mine are good examples... I don't think they are particularly 'overtly' racist ever, but they definitely have some "classist" beliefs which they tend to generalize along racial lines. (That's not very clear, I know, but I think you know what I'm getting at.) I guess I mean to say that they tend to lump most Black people in with all the people (reguardless of race) that they see as not having much of a work ethic. I don't think they look down on Black people specifically, but they do tend to be a more skeptical of Black people when it comes to their motives and values in life, until proven otherwise. And they're much less likely to give a Black person the benefit of the doubt, before making an early judgement about them.

[Rooster_Ties]

There's a very small church right next door to our house (literally 20 feet north of us, separated only by the width of a driveway and a 6-foot strip of grass). The congregation of the church is quite an interesting racial mix -- I'm guessing about 50% white, 35% black, and 15% Hispanic.

They have an interesting ministerial staff, the racial mix of which I think is intentional. The head-minister is Black, and assistant minister (who is also the youth minister) is white, and the church secretary is Hispanic.

Most weeks we see the church congregants as they file into the backdoor of the church, as they use our driveway to get from the church parking lot to the church itself. (There's an easement on the driveway - my wife and I own it, but the church has pedestrian rights in perpetuity. Our house used to be the parsonage to the church, which explains the odd relationship we have with them.)

ANYWAY, enough background. I only mention all this because this is one of the most racially mixed groups / organizations / churches / "whatevers" I've ever seen in this town. And I'm always pleased by the friendliness of the church goers, if we're in our back yard on Sunday morning (which is when we often do some of our yard work). No real point to this post, I guess. Just more observations on the topic.

Edited July 10, 2003 by Rooster_Ties

[Rooster_Ties]

I had a couple opportunities to drive through (and in and around) part of the "mostly Black" part of Kansas City, a couple times in the last month. My wife and I had noticed ads in the free weekly KC paper for two brand new restaurants right in the heart of the Black part of town. One serves Caribbean food, and the other was for an ice-cream shop that also serves hot dogs, chili, etc... I think we're gonna try the Caribbean restaurant sometime in the next month, just for the heck of it.

In that same all-Black neighborhood, my wife and I also drove up and down a couple dozen neighborhood streets, in an area of town with nearly all older homes (most built in the early 1920's through the early 1950's). Though some of the houses were in need of quite a bit of work, most were nicely maintained, and the area had a great "neighborhood" kind of feel to it. NOT that I expected any differently (because the area was Black), but it was nice to experience an new part of town personally, since I really love driving around and looking at older homes.

( No specific reason for posting all this, other than I wanted to get this thread going again. Please post anything you can think of related to the general topic. I still think it's an important one. Thanks!!! )

[Rooster_Ties]

I don't have a good "content rich" post to add to this thread (much too late as I'm typing this, and I'm much to tired to think of a decent one), and yet I happened to think of it earlier tonight, and wanted to bring it up again -- in the hopes that we can foster some more conversation on this topic.

If anyone new to the board happens to read this topic, please contribute.

Doesn't matter what direction we take this thread in, as long as we continue talking about things -- which is, perhaps, half the battle.

Peace!!

[Chuck Nessa]

Up.................just because.

[md655321]

I will say one thing, Crash winning an Oscar does not bode well for race in America.

[Noj]

Ugh, reviewed my posts in this one. I hate my own writing style.

[Rooster_Ties]

On 4/18/2006 at 9:20 PM, Chuck Nessa said:

Up.................just because.

Good a reason as any!

I was 34 when I started this thread, and I turn 53 this time next month.

Lot’s happened in the world since then. Maybe even more hasn’t.